Treatment with oxandrolone and the durability of effects in older men

[cvictorg]

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/96/3/1055 (Treatment with oxandrolone and the durability of effects in older men -- Schroeder et al. 96 (3): 1055 -- Journal of Applied Physiology)

Eligible subjects were randomized in a 2:1 manner to receive either the licensed oral dose of oxandrolone (Oxandrin, Savient Pharmaceuticals, East Brunswick, NJ) of 20 mg/day (10 mg twice daily) or matching placebo for 12 wk. Twenty milligrams were chosen because this is the Food and Drug Administration-licensed dose for treatment of weight loss or inability to maintain normal body weight. Subjects returned for a follow-up evaluation at study week 24 (12 wk after stopping study treatment). Adherence was monitored by tablet count at each study visit.

These findings demonstrated that a relatively brief course of treatment with a potent anabolic androgen in men over 60 yr of age increased LBM as well as upper and lower body maximal voluntary strength more than placebo. The increase of 3.0 ± 1.5 kg in LBM in this study is approximately twofold greater than the increase in LBM reported by other investigators using testosterone supplementation in older men (6, 21, 46, 51). The only other study of androgen therapy to achieve comparable increases in LBM (4.2 ± 0.6 kg) used a dose of testosterone enanthate adjusted to produce nadir levels in the upper normal range, suggesting that dosing was "supraphysiological" because nadir levels were tested 2 wk after a prior intramuscular dose (11). Moreover, subjects were treated for 24 wk compared with 12 wk in our study. These observations suggest that the formulation and potency of the androgen, dose, and duration of therapy may affect the changes in lean tissue achieved, which is in keeping with a recent dose ranging study of testosterone in younger men (5).

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Another great article, I am very familiar with! There are a couple of good points to take home from this study. It confirms the suppressive action of oxandrolone. And all of the anabolic effects are lost 12 weeks after stopping AAS (in a 12 week trial). [It might be of interest to read the OHRP (Office of Human Research Protections) response to a complaint filed against this group of researchers. http://www.hhs.gov/ohrp/detrm_letrs/YR04/nov04c.pdf This study was in response to that complaint. But note they do not include the actual T (LH is included) level! this is all documented in my book.]

 

[cvictorg]

Another great article, I am very familiar with! There are a couple of good points to take home from this study. It confirms the suppressive action of oxandrolone. And all of the anabolic effects are lost 12 weeks after stopping AAS (in a 12 week trial). [It might be of interest to read the OHRP (Office of Human Research Protections) response to a complaint filed against this group of researchers. http://www.hhs.gov/ohrp/detrm_letrs/YR04/nov04c.pdf This study was in response to that complaint. But note they do not include the actual T (LH is included) level! this is all documented in my book.]

From the complaint

No studies exist which describe the normalization of the HPTA and the extent
of hypogonadism in subjects after androgen withdrawal. As a result, the risks to
the subjects were not reasonable in relation to the anticipated benefits.

Guess they didn't read your paper on that subject - LOL

 

[Michael Scally MD]

From the complaint

"No studies exist which describe the normalization of the HPTA and the extent
of hypogonadism in subjects after androgen withdrawal. As a result, the risks to
the subjects were not reasonable in relation to the anticipated benefits."

THIS IS CLASSICAL ORWELLIAN SPEAK!!!

Guess they didn't read your paper on that subject - LOL

I would post my reply (it is in the book), but I think even the minimally educated person knows about anabolic steroid induced hypogonadism. The scary part about this, one all will pick up on, is that the medical community is behind the eight ball in recognizing and treating this disorder. Really, can anyone believe that these patients did not have hypogonadism after stopping AAS? How long did it take the medical community to recognize that AAS increase muscle mass and strength. It was over 50 years!

 

[HeadDoc]

It does appear that mainstream medical thinking got stuck somewhere around the 70's and 80's when the bodybuilders and their doctors were trying to sort through the effects of anabolics. So rather than appeal to science and its methods, the attention evolved into the assumption of witchcraft and witch hunts.

 

[Millard]

It does appear that mainstream medical thinking got stuck somewhere around the 70's and 80's when the bodybuilders and their doctors were trying to sort through the effects of anabolics. So rather than appeal to science and its methods, the attention evolved into the assumption of witchcraft and witch hunts.

Agreed. However, I found it ironic that while the government is eager to use overstated steroid side effects to promote fear and hysteria, at the same time they pretend that steroids don't suppress HPTA when it comes to steroid research in human subjects?

 

[tbaggs22]

After going through six months of chemo and not being able to achieve any LBM gains even after many years of the treatment ending I considered Test. But with my test numbers in the normal range I didn't want to mess them up for some gains. I spoke to my doctor about oxandrolone telling her aids patients, burn victims, and people recovering from major surgery have taken this with good results. Although she would not write me a prescription she did say it would not be harmful for me to try it if another doc would prescribe and may help me reach my goals. Well, I found some without a doc and here's results so far. Been on 3 weeks at 20mg a day, split in morning and evening and gained 4 pounds of LBM already, gotten stronger, and noticed vascularity that I have not had since HS. Have had zero side effects and feel great. I plan to continue for 3 more weeks at same dose and hope for 2-3 more pounds. So it's very realistic that in six weeks I will have gained 5 LBS of LBM, got ripped, and stronger with no sides. I have heard it said MANY times that 20mg a day will do nothing and a waste of time and money but this is simply not true. Want to get huge, wrong AAS but for my purpose was perfect. Hope I'm not out of line sharing my story doctors but thought it was similar to the one posted in terms of results. Hope it helped someone.......

 

[Michael Scally MD]

After going through six months of chemo and not being able to achieve any LBM gains even after many years of the treatment ending I considered Test. But with my test numbers in the normal range I didn't want to mess them up for some gains. I spoke to my doctor about oxandrolone telling her aids patients, burn victims, and people recovering from major surgery have taken this with good results. Although she would not write me a prescription she did say it would not be harmful for me to try it if another doc would prescribe and may help me reach my goals. Well, I found some without a doc and here's results so far. Been on 3 weeks at 20mg a day, split in morning and evening and gained 4 pounds of LBM already, gotten stronger, and noticed vascularity that I have not had since HS. Have had zero side effects and feel great. I plan to continue for 3 more weeks at same dose and hope for 2-3 more pounds. So it's very [UN]realistic that in six weeks I will have gained 5 LBS of LBM, got ripped, and stronger with no sides. I have heard it said MANY times that 20mg a day will do nothing and a waste of time and money but this is simply not true. Want to get huge, wrong AAS but for my purpose was perfect. Hope I'm not out of line sharing my story doctors but thought it was similar to the one posted in terms of results. Hope it helped someone.......

Did you read the article conclusion? "Thus oxandrolone induced short-term improvements in LBM, muscle area, and strength, while reducing whole body and trunk adiposity. Anabolic improvements were lost 12 wk after discontinuing oxandrolone, whereas improvements in fat mass were largely sustained."

 

[HeadDoc]

Agreed. However, I found it ironic that while the government is eager to use overstated steroid side effects to promote fear and hysteria, at the same time they pretend that steroids don't suppress HPTA when it comes to steroid research in human subjects?

do you believe for a moment that those congressional hearings were about the medical and scientific facts about steroids? I believe that this was Bush and company doing a favor for the MLB owners to take the players union to school. When Bush was an owner, he didn't bother himself about steroids!

I am not into the use of anabolics at super-physiological levels without knowledgeable medical assistance. However the national witch hunt was just another political folly. Pardon my interruption if I've misdirected the thread.

 

[tbaggs22]

Dr. Scally, no I did not read that at first. I was so excited that the patients were getting great results that I shared that I figured that was the story. I guess in the back of my mind I always felt like this is too good to be true. I mean if there was a drug that was safe, ( for a AAS ) yielded such great results, with no side effects everyone would be doing it. I can only hope that the patients in the study being older and not working out as I am both before and after treatment my results will be different. One thing most people wrote when I researched user reviews of Anavar were that they kept most of there gains after stopping use. If things don't work out as I hope, I guess just as with love, its better to have had and lost, then to never of had at all....

 

[jackiebigmur]

so Dr. Scally - are you saying that anavar is virtually worthless for weightlifters or bodybuilders?

 

[Michael Scally MD]

so Dr. Scally - are you saying that anavar is virtually worthless for weightlifters or bodybuilders?

No. I am saying that without a proper PCT, AAS use is worth minimum for the anabolic improvements. The fat mass improvements were essentially maintained. Isn't that a kick? AAS as a weight loss med!

 

[jackiebigmur]

Dr Scul;ly - I'm just learning but I've been reading alot. Do you feel that even with a moderate oxandrolone only cycle, pct is necessary?

 

[clloyd]

Did you read the article conclusion? "Thus oxandrolone induced short-term improvements in LBM, muscle area, and strength, while reducing whole body and trunk adiposity. Anabolic improvements were lost 12 wk after discontinuing oxandrolone, whereas improvements in fat mass were largely sustained."

I would also be curious to know that even though total cholesterol did not change materially after the 12 weeks, but if HDL went down and LDL went up materially...?

 

[Michael Scally MD]

I would also be curious to know that even though total cholesterol did not change materially after the 12 weeks, but if HDL went down and LDL went up materially...?

Here you go:

Schroeder ET, Zheng L, Ong MD, et al. Effects of Androgen Therapy on Adipose Tissue and Metabolism in Older Men. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2004;89(10):4863-72.

We investigated the effects of oxandrolone on regional fat compartments and markers of metabolism. Thirty-two 60- to 87-yr-old men (body mass index, 28.1 {+/-} 3.4 kg/m2) were randomized to oxandrolone (20 mg/d; n = 20) or matching placebo (n = 12) treatment for 12 wk. Oxandrolone reduced total (-1.8 {+/-} 1.0 kg; P < 0.001), trunk (-1.2 {+/-} 0.6 kg; P < 0.001), and appendicular (-0.6 {+/-} 0.6 kg; P < 0.001) fat, as determined by dual energy x-ray absorptiometry. The changes in total and trunk fat were greater (P < 0.001) than the changes with placebo. By magnetic resonance imaging, visceral adipose tissue decreased (-20.9 {+/-} 12 cm2; P < 0.001), abdominal sc adipose tissue (SAT) declined (-10.7 {+/-} 12.1 cm2; P = 0.043), the ratio VAT/SAT declined from 0.57 {+/-} 0.23 to 0.49 {+/-} 0.19 (P = 0.002), and proximal and distal thigh SC fat declined [-8.3 {+/-} 6.7 cm2 (P < 0.001) and -2.2 {+/-} 3.0 kg (P = 0.004), respectively]. Changes in proximal and distal thigh SC fat with oxandrolone were different than with placebo (P = 0.018 and P = 0.059). A marker of insulin sensitivity (quantitative insulin sensitivity check index) improved with oxandrolone by 0.0041 {+/-} 0.0071 (P = 0.018) at study wk 12. Changes in total fat, abdominal SAT, and proximal extremity SC fat were correlated with changes in fasting insulin from baseline to study wk 12 (r [&ge;] 0.45; P < 0.05). Losses of total fat and SAT were greater in men with baseline testosterone of 10.4 nmol/liter or less ([&le;] 300 ng/dl) than in those with higher levels [-2.5 {+/-} 1.1 vs. -1.5 {+/-} 0.8 kg (P = 0.036) and -24.1 {+/-} 14.3 vs. -2.9 {+/-} 21.3 cm2 (P = 0.03), respectively]. Twelve weeks after discontinuing oxandrolone, 83% of the reductions in total, trunk, and extremity fat by dual energy x-ray absorptiometry scanning were sustained (P < 0.02). Androgen therapy, therefore, produced significant and durable reductions in regional abdominal and peripheral adipose tissue that were associated with improvements in estimates of insulin sensitivity. However, high-density lipoprotein cholesterol decreased by -0.49 {+/-} 0.21 mmol/liter and directly measured low-density lipoprotein cholesterol increased by 0.57 {+/-} 0.67 mmol/liter and non-high-density lipoprotein cholesterol increased by 0.54 {+/-} 0.97 mmol/liter (P < 0.03 for each) during treatment with oxandrolone; these changes were largely reversible. Thus, therapy with an androgen that does not adversely affect lipids may be beneficial for some components of the metabolic syndrome in overweight older men with low testosterone levels.

 

[clloyd]

Thank you Dr. Scally. HDL change is material (expecially if someone already has a lipid profile issue). However, I always wondered if some of the permanent fat loss could be worth it -- taking oxandrolone.