1st timer - light cycle of test cypionate

[ForemanRules]

The fuck I am, jack! Show me a single scientific article showing that much production in any sizable amount of the male population(meaning: it's fairly common, not just in freak occurences) a week. Just one.

edit- Here, I helped you out. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=daily+testosterone+production

That's the search results for "daily testosterone production". Pay close attention to the first link...dick.

I naturally produce around 125mg a week and I'm older so closer to 150+mg when I was a teen and early 20's. It is very common for men too produce over 100mg a week son.


Sorry but you are wrong again....200mg is too low to bother with unless a person is 40+ like you

 

[aminus]

I heard someone on another board talk about taking 200mg cyp every 4 days instead of the mon/thur shots.. anyone else approve of this??? Also at 200mg per week arent you still going to supress your natural test production? If thats the case might as well make it worth while

 

[lou123]

I naturally produce around 125mg a week and I'm older so closer to 150+mg when I was a teen and early 20's. It is very common for men too produce over 100mg a week son.


Sorry but you are wrong again....200mg is too low to bother with unless a person is 40+ like you

So what are your T levels 8 weeks after you stop PCT ?

 

[HDH]

I heard someone on another board talk about taking 200mg cyp every 4 days instead of the mon/thur shots.. anyone else approve of this??? Also at 200mg per week arent you still going to supress your natural test production? If thats the case might as well make it worth while

I would suggest every 3 1/2 days so you get the full 400mg every week. Alternate AM and PM injects.

HDH

 

[tommyguns2]

Even a low dose of 100mg/wk will shut you down.

I'm not sure how "worthwhile" should be defined. If the goal is to put on 30 pounds over 12 weeks, then I agree you should go with 500mg/wk, and throw in some dbol at 30-50mg/day for the first 4 weeks.

But not everyone has the same goals, and I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest a lower dose protocol if the goal is to put on just 10 pounds of lean mass.

I have no problem with a higher dose protocol, but I think one downside for a relative newbie using what I consider to be a medium dose, is that they experience significant gains quickly, and in some instances get lax on their diet since you can grow on just about anything at 500mg/wk.

The low dose will provide for lean quality gains, and for a newbie the body will respond well. Plus, for future cycles you've got more room to up your dose gradually, if desired.

Not flaming anybody who disagrees with me, since most do. I'm just throwing out a different perspective.

Good luck!

 

[aminus]

Even a low dose of 100mg/wk will shut you down.

I'm not sure how "worthwhile" should be defined. If the goal is to put on 30 pounds over 12 weeks, then I agree you should go with 500mg/wk, and throw in some dbol at 30-50mg/day for the first 4 weeks.

But not everyone has the same goals, and I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest a lower dose protocol if the goal is to put on just 10 pounds of lean mass.

I have no problem with a higher dose protocol, but I think one downside for a relative newbie using what I consider to be a medium dose, is that they experience significant gains quickly, and in some instances get lax on their diet since you can grow on just about anything at 500mg/wk.

The low dose will provide for lean quality gains, and for a newbie the body will respond well. Plus, for future cycles you've got more room to up your dose gradually, if desired.

Not flaming anybody who disagrees with me, since most do. I'm just throwing out a different perspective.

Good luck!

I totally agree, but some people looking at doing a lower dose do not believe that they will be shut down and dont even look at doing pct.

 

[vscommi]

What would be the consequences of not doing PCT after 200mg of test p/week for 8 weeks?

 

[tommyguns2]

The consequences would be that you would be shut down, and the rate in which your natural testosterone production would come back on-line would be unduly slow. Consequently, in the interim, your test levels in your body would be artifically low, and the gains that you made during your eight weeks would likely go down the crapper.

The PCT is meant to bring your natural test production back on-line as soon as possible to minize the time period in which your test levels are low. The general consensus is that PCT is as important as the cycle itself.

 

[Grizzly]

I naturally produce around 125mg a week and I'm older so closer to 150+mg when I was a teen and early 20's. It is very common for men too produce over 100mg a week son.

Do you have proof of this or are you just talking out of your ass? Can you provide documented evidence of your T production?

 

[TheBeat]

I naturally produce around 125mg a week and I'm older so closer to 150+mg when I was a teen and early 20's. It is very common for men too produce over 100mg a week son.


Sorry but you are wrong again....200mg is too low to bother with unless a person is 40+ like you

Out of curiousity, how do you know how much you produce? I know what my blood levels are of test/free test/sbhg but not how much I produce. I would love to know. 175mg brings me to a blood level of around 1200, which is vairly high, but not grow massive muscles high. 350mg by the way brings me to 2000, so one cannot exactly count of doubling the dose = doubling the blood levels.

Also if you produce 125mg per week that would be equivalent to 180mg of Cypionate because of the ester and 150mg would be equivalent 215mg.

Of note to others: me taking 175 to reach 1200 does not mean everyone will, just like it does not mean that Foreman has a blood level of 1200 because he produces 125mg of pure test, there are many factors at play.

 

[TheBeat]

Also, ANYONE taking 200mg per week will have a very high test level in relation to average! Sure some people have naturally high levels and you can notice it in the way they look. The question was would 200mg help with muscle growth, not would it help someone already past their genetic potential? Anyone that does not grow on 200mg per week has past their genetic prime, has a shitty diet, has shitty training, or thinks that drugs make the body. Hell, some people with natural test levels and average test levels/genetics look better than your gram a weekers. Not saying that 400mg is not ideal compared to 200mg, but the arguement has seemed to come away from that.

 

[Grizzly]

Do you have proof of this or are you just talking out of your ass? Can you provide documented evidence of your T production?

Care to address this or shall we take your silence as a tacit admission of being full of shit?

 

[MaxRep]

I naturally produce around 125mg a week and I'm older so closer to 150+mg when I was a teen and early 20's. It is very common for men too produce over 100mg a week son.

FR, you need to take a less dogmatic stance. Your stated Testosterone production levels are baloney and your condescending statement about men commonly producing over 100mg/week is just flat wrong. An endocrinology text book would be a good place for you to start if you're actually interested in improving your knowledge.

_________________________________________________________________________
The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 89, No. 6 2936-2941

Testosterone Metabolic Clearance and Production Rates Determined by Stable Isotope Dilution/Tandem Mass Spectrometry in Normal Men: Influence of Ethnicity and Age

Christina Wang, Don H. Catlin, Borislav Starcevic, Andrew Leung, Emma DiStefano, Geraldine Lucas, Laura Hull and Ronald S. Swerdloff

Division of Endocrinology, Department of Medicine (C.W., A.L., G.L., L.H., R.S.S.), Harbor-University of California Los Angeles (UCLA) Medical Center and Research and Education Institute, Torrance, California 90509; and Olympic Analytical Laboratory, Department of Molecular and Medical Pharmacology (D.H.C., B.S., E.D.), UCLA, Los Angeles, California

The metabolic clearance rate (MCRT) and production rate (PRT) of testosterone (T) were measured using constant infusion of trideuterated (d3) T and quantitating serum d3T by liquid chromatography-tandem mass spectrometry (LC-MS-MS). Serum unlabeled T (d0T) was measured by LC-MS-MS, and serum total T (d3T + d0T) was measured by RIA. Mean MCRT (measured by LC-MS-MS) in young white men (1272 168 liters/d) was not significantly different from young Asian men (1070 166 liters/d). Mean PRT was also not significantly different between the two ethnic groups (whites, 9.11 1.11 mg/d; Asians, 7.22 1.15 mg/d; P = 0.19 using d0T data). Both the mean MCRT (812 64 liters/d; P < 0.01) and the PRT (3.88 0.27 mg/d; P < 0.001) were significantly lower in middle-aged white men when compared with their younger counterparts... etcetera... go look up the study if you want to read the entire thing.
_________________________________________________________________________

So what we see is there is relatively little variance in testosterone production... the variance for young, male whites and asians is roughly 1.1mg/day +/- from their average Testosterone production... which were respectively 9.1 and 7.2 mg's/day. So to think that FR would have a variance of 12mg's/day and produce 21mg/day is basically, almost statistically impossible... something way beyond 3 standard deviations... and would be fair to say in real world language, is flat out impossible. Same thing with the 100+mg/week being common. Not on this planet folks.

Best regards,
MaxRep

 

[Grizzly]

FR, you need to take a less dogmatic stance. Your stated Testosterone production levels are baloney and your condescending statement about men commonly producing over 100mg/week is just flat wrong. An endocrinology text book would be a good place for you to start if you're actually interested in improving your knowledge.

_________________________________________________________________________
The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 89, No. 6 2936-2941

Testosterone Metabolic Clearance and Production Rates Determined by Stable Isotope Dilution/Tandem Mass Spectrometry in Normal Men: Influence of Ethnicity and Age

Christina Wang, Don H. Catlin, Borislav Starcevic, Andrew Leung, Emma DiStefano, Geraldine Lucas, Laura Hull and Ronald S. Swerdloff

Division of Endocrinology, Department of Medicine (C.W., A.L., G.L., L.H., R.S.S.), Harbor-University of California Los Angeles (UCLA) Medical Center and Research and Education Institute, Torrance, California 90509; and Olympic Analytical Laboratory, Department of Molecular and Medical Pharmacology (D.H.C., B.S., E.D.), UCLA, Los Angeles, California

The metabolic clearance rate (MCRT) and production rate (PRT) of testosterone (T) were measured using constant infusion of trideuterated (d3) T and quantitating serum d3T by liquid chromatography-tandem mass spectrometry (LC-MS-MS). Serum unlabeled T (d0T) was measured by LC-MS-MS, and serum total T (d3T + d0T) was measured by RIA. Mean MCRT (measured by LC-MS-MS) in young white men (1272 168 liters/d) was not significantly different from young Asian men (1070 166 liters/d). Mean PRT was also not significantly different between the two ethnic groups (whites, 9.11 1.11 mg/d; Asians, 7.22 1.15 mg/d; P = 0.19 using d0T data). Both the mean MCRT (812 64 liters/d; P < 0.01) and the PRT (3.88 0.27 mg/d; P < 0.001) were significantly lower in middle-aged white men when compared with their younger counterparts... etcetera... go look up the study if you want to read the entire thing.
_________________________________________________________________________

So what we see is there is relatively little variance in testosterone production... the variance for young, male whites and asians is roughly 1.1mg/day +/- from their average Testosterone production... which were respectively 9.1 and 7.2 mg's/day. So to think that FR would have a variance of 12mg's/day and produce 21mg/day is basically, almost statistically impossible... something way beyond 3 standard deviations... and would be fair to say in real world language, is flat out impossible. Same thing with the 100+mg/week being common. Not on this planet folks.

Best regards,
MaxRep

Ha HA! Told you so. Plfffffffttt!!!!!!!

 

[Grizzly]

We're still waiting...son.

 

[lou123]

I'd like to see an asnswer also, Foreman usually is on the ball with replies. It's not like him to take so long

 

[jsupstarz]

Back to the question, do you think 200mg a week is really worth while? Curious to hear...

 

[terrorizer2]

Back to the question, do you think 200mg a week is really worth while? Curious to hear...

Personally i would say no.If you are gonna take test then make it worthwhile.I would not reccomend under 400mg a week for a first cycle.400 to 500 test only is a excellent first cycle and with a good diet and training programme will produce excellent results.



www.muscletalk.co.uk

 

[jsupstarz]

My thoughts exactly

 

[Grizzly]

I'd like to see an asnswer also, Foreman usually is on the ball with replies. It's not like him to take so long

He's quick to reply when he's on the winning side, but when he's been exposed for the loudmouthed retard he is, then he retreats into the shadows.