AAS and high bodyfat %

[Live_Evil]

The best power lifters aren't fat at all? Eddie Hall pushing himself to over 400 was because he was lazy?

Well, he was talking about powerlifters, and Eddie is a strongman. One could make an argument for strongman competitors actually having an advantage in their sport if they have a big belly, because of the bizarre lifts they perform.

Eddie's deadlift was impressive, but powerlifters hit that metric decades ago. Strongman allows their competitors to use straps, hitch the bar, and roll the weight to get it started. Powerlifters don't have any of those tools at their disposal.

Not to take anything from Eddie, he's one of the strongest dudes to walk the face of the earth, by far. But they're different sports.

 

[Silentlemon1011]

Thanks for the plug brother! But I mostly agree. Even most of the WSM guys are getting leaner. Look at Brian Shaw, Evan Singleton, Luke and Tom Stoltman, Kevin Faires, Mateus Kielizkowsi (however the fuck you spell his name), Olexii Novikov and the list goes on. These guys are learning that you don't have to be fat as fuck to be WSM.

The reason I say "mostly" is because (and someone is going to misunderstand what I am saying and try to call me out) is that you want a little extra weight do be a competitive strongman. By that I mean you don't need/want to be BB lean. I think most strongman competitors (more specifically "weight classed" competitors, but to an extent it applies to open guys too) need to be around 11-13% for optimal performance. Much less than that and you will risk injury or lethargy/poor conditioning, much more than that and you're filling out your weight class with fat instead of muscle and just slowing yourself down. You're not optimizing your body composition.

Speed/athleticism is becoming much more important in strongman within probably the last 5-10 years. And it's just healthier and easier on your heart

Said it better than I could lol.
That's why i tagged you lol
Agree completely.

yeah alot of the strongmen are leaning out but i think its more for health reasons like Bryan Shaw wanting to be there for his kids.
Compare Eddie Hall or Thor when they did their deadlifts to like Yuri Belkin, Belkins way more impressive being so much smaller than them.
Also not all fat powerlifters are strong, for every Julius Maddix and Dan Bell you have how many tens of thousands of fattttt weak lifters. Dan green, Yuri belkin, Atwood, that jamal guy and plenty of the top guys are ripped year round mostly.

Atwood is a fucking monster.
He doesnt get the publicity because hes obviously small

But his WILKS is nuts
always impressive to watch

 

[Live_Evil]

The really odd thing is when you get into combat sports and look at guys like DC and Fedor.

Fedor was one of the GOATs, and some people consider him the HW GOAT hands down. But he easily could have made LHW if he would have leaned out a bit, possibly even MW (185) if he would have seriously leaned out and learned how to cut properly. This pudgy fucker was destroying genuine goliaths despite his poor body comp.

DC could easily be a MW, and he was ragdolling fuckers at 205 and HW. I can't even imagine how good either of them would be at lower weight classes.

Hell, even Cro Cop was tiny for a HW. He fought at 213 lbs against Wanderlei Silve (a LHW) and Wanderlei was actually heavier. Jon Jones walks around at 225-230 before cutting weight, lol. Granted, Cro Cop was in amazing shape, so it wasn't a body composition issue, just terribly inefficient for him to fight guys who cut weight to make 265 when he could easily make 205 and fight smaller guys.

And of course, the latest generation of fighters are all fucking huge for their weight class, cutting obscene amounts of weight. Khabib looks to be DC's size when they train, and fought at 155 for god's sake.

It really just illustrates how big of a difference a few lbs can make. Although, you can still point to guys like DC and Fedor, and clearly see skill make up for weight. I guess that's why combat sports are so amazing; you can use conditioning, skill, size, strength, or anything else as your primary weapon.

 

[Silentlemon1011]

Bingo, nailed the jist of what I was trying to say




Im in general disagreeance. Fat is not contractive tissue and fat itself will not contract or expand to move weight.

However

From a leverage standpoint, there might be a very small advantage in added leverage being a heavier weight. For example adding 2 inches of depth to your chest is 2 inches less that the bar has to travel down to touch your chest, therefor you start the press closer to the top of the lift and don’t have to move the bar as far as you theoretically would have if you didn’t have that extra 2 inches of depth.

Touching on your point further, a guy who’s 195 pounds with a lean body mass of say 180 pounds is directly comparable to himself at 210 pounds with a lean body mass of the same 180 pounds. The difference being that he will be competing at a heavier weight class with stronger competitors. The unnecessary bodyfat does not advantage him in any way (besides maybe a very small addition of leverage) nor does training at that bodyfat benefit him in terms of progress vs if he was leaner. His response to everything and his results will be exponentially better at a manageable 12-16% bodyfat as opposed to 25-30%. I think comparing 2 different people solely by weight is impossible.

But I don’t believe in mass moves mass in this instance, as fat is not a contractive tissue that is capable of lifting weight by itself, and besides a very small amount of leverage gives you no real competitive advantage, as well as my original point that if you train in that condition all of the time, you will be missing out on lean tissue and strength gains for a plethora of reasons.

1000%
But when you're getting over 400 lbs as a human being....
It's almost like throwing science out of the window.

But yeah, totally in agreement, a lean guy (Within reason) has a definite advantage on the fatty.

 

[Silentlemon1011]

The really odd thing is when you get into combat sports and look at guys like DC and Fedor.

Fedor was one of the GOATs, and some people consider him the HW GOAT hands down. But he easily could have made LHW if he would have leaned out a bit, possibly even MW (185) if he would have seriously leaned out and learned how to cut properly. This pudgy fucker was destroying genuine goliaths despite his poor body comp.

DC could easily be a MW, and he was ragdolling fuckers at 205 and HW. I can't even imagine how good either of them would be at lower weight classes.

Hell, even Cro Cop was tiny for a HW. He fought at 213 lbs against Wanderlei Silve (a LHW) and Wanderlei was actually heavier. Jon Jones walks around at 225-230 before cutting weight, lol. Granted, Cro Cop was in amazing shape, so it wasn't a body composition issue, just terribly inefficient for him to fight guys who cut weight to make 265 when he could easily make 205 and fight smaller guys.

And of course, the latest generation of fighters are all fucking huge for their weight class, cutting obscene amounts of weight. Khabib looks to be DC's size when they train, and fought at 155 for god's sake.

It really just illustrates how big of a difference a few lbs can make. Although, you can still point to guys like DC and Fedor, and clearly see skill make up for weight. I guess that's why combat sports are so amazing; you can use conditioning, skill, size, strength, or anything else as your primary weapon.

Then you see Tyson Fury just fucking bullying people.
Motherfucker looksnlike he hasnt left the couch in 5 years and his diet is beer a s cheetos.

But hes a fucking demon

 

[Live_Evil]

Then you see Tyson Fury just fucking bullying people.
Motherfucker looksnlike he hasnt left the couch in 5 years and his diet is beer a s cheetos.

But hes a fucking demon

Lol! So true. And he purposefully got fat as fuck for his second fight against Wilder.

I guess if you can use the extra weight in your sport, it's just so much easier to add fat than muscle. And the fat doesn't have oxygen requirements like muscle. Further, if you like where you are -- you're fast, well conditioned, explosive, etc, but you just want extra weight, I don't think the fat will negatively impact your performance the way muscle can in a sport that's so incredibly demanding on the cardiovascular system and requires such a high amount of speed.

 

[GuerillaPete]

The really odd thing is when you get into combat sports and look at guys like DC and Fedor.

Fedor was one of the GOATs, and some people consider him the HW GOAT hands down. But he easily could have made LHW if he would have leaned out a bit, possibly even MW (185) if he would have seriously leaned out and learned how to cut properly. This pudgy fucker was destroying genuine goliaths despite his poor body comp.

DC could easily be a MW, and he was ragdolling fuckers at 205 and HW. I can't even imagine how good either of them would be at lower weight classes.

Hell, even Cro Cop was tiny for a HW. He fought at 213 lbs against Wanderlei Silve (a LHW) and Wanderlei was actually heavier. Jon Jones walks around at 225-230 before cutting weight, lol. Granted, Cro Cop was in amazing shape, so it wasn't a body composition issue, just terribly inefficient for him to fight guys who cut weight to make 265 when he could easily make 205 and fight smaller guys.

And of course, the latest generation of fighters are all fucking huge for their weight class, cutting obscene amounts of weight. Khabib looks to be DC's size when they train, and fought at 155 for god's sake.

It really just illustrates how big of a difference a few lbs can make. Although, you can still point to guys like DC and Fedor, and clearly see skill make up for weight. I guess that's why combat sports are so amazing; you can use conditioning, skill, size, strength, or anything else as your primary weapon.

Look at Dustin Porier the weight cut to 145 did not give him an advantage! Weight cuts are hard and taxing not always better for a figher.
Look at him at 155 his killin it.
Dc would die making 185 barley made 205.
He is endomorphic hard to cut weight for him and he started mma late in life.
Fedors time fighters where not so complete like now.
His knowledge of sambo helped him alot! Fighters where afraid for the takedown and that made them vulnerable for his signature overhead right(or left as i dont remember if he was left or right handed)
He basically lowered his body when trowing this punch so the opponent thought he was shooting for takedown but got hi with the overhead instead and than taken down.
He was very effective with this. Sadly the heavyweight division is not so exiting anymore would have liked to se Jon Jones fight Nganou but dont think it will happen.

 

[GuerillaPete]

Then you see Tyson Fury just fucking bullying people.
Motherfucker looksnlike he hasnt left the couch in 5 years and his diet is beer a s cheetos.

But hes a fucking demon

He comes from generations of fighting and his skill is very good.
Fighting is having skill and good chin Boxing especially to be very good you have to start young most excelent fighters had guidance from young age by theire father or a father figure who already mastered the sport.

 

[Regular Joe]

Most of your top athletes aren't ripped unless they are trying to make a weight class. I think now that being shredded is so popular and we learn more about nutrition we will keep seeing guys get leaner. Most people don't do well shredded, it hurts power and endurance for most, but I also guess it depends on your definition of shredded. Jon haack I wouldn't consider shredded as well as many other top lifters or fighters even when weight matters

 

[GuerillaPete]

Most of your top athletes aren't ripped unless they are trying to make a weight class. I think now that being shredded is so popular and we learn more about nutrition we will keep seeing guys get leaner. Most people don't do well shredded, it hurts power and endurance for most, but I also guess it depends on your definition of shredded. Jon haack I wouldn't consider shredded as well as many other top lifters or fighters even when weight matters

Maybe social media is also culprit for more athletes wanting to be leaner….
Everything is public now and everyone judged…
No more privacy .

 

[Silentlemon1011]

Most of your top athletes aren't ripped unless they are trying to make a weight class. I think now that being shredded is so popular and we learn more about nutrition we will keep seeing guys get leaner. Most people don't do well shredded, it hurts power and endurance for most, but I also guess it depends on your definition of shredded. Jon haack I wouldn't consider shredded as well as many other top lifters or fighters even when weight matters

Agreed
Not shredded
But they do look impressive.

Maybe social media is also culprit for more athletes wanting to be leaner….
Everything is public now and everyone judged…
No more privacy .

Ask Anthony Joshua how that worked out for him lmfao

 

[GuerillaPete]

Agreed
Not shredded
But they do look impressive.


Ask Anthony Joshua how that worked out for him lmfao

Joshua is a physical specimen would have excelled at any sport or at least most sports he is what one would cal top genetics. Would be interesting for him to fight Fury

 

[Silentlemon1011]

Joshua is a physical specimen would have excelled at any sport or at least most sports he is what one would cal top genetics. Would be interesting for him to fight Fury

A total gentlemen too

But he went all...low BF and hit the weights hard for the Ruiz fight.
Got gassed and beaten down by Ruiz (Who looks even more couch potato than Fury)
Was a mistake for surem

Joshua/Ruiz 2 was Anthint back in "Fighting shape" better cardio l, fatter (relativly apeaking) with a full gas tank.

Really goes to show that leaner definitly isnt always better for SOME boxers

 

[rfan2020]

In general agreement with everything said here

but I would also add that I
don’t think fatties should be using gear for the reason being impaired nutrient partitioning. Your body will respond to food exponentially better at a better body composition. Nutrient partitioning is the most important factor of your diet, so if you can’t optimize it, IMO it would be the same as running gear with shitty training or a shitty diet.

because even if your diet is great, it isn’t, because your a higher body fat and not using the food as well as you could be.

The power lifting example I don’t think is a great one. Power lifters do not need to be fat. Fat is not a contractive tissue that contributes anything to their strength. The best powerlifters I know are not fat at all. I think becoming fat as a powerlifter is a sign of laziness. You are now competing with people who possibly have more contractive tissue than you do, as well as you are shorting yourself in your possibilities to progress, because your body doesn’t respond better to gear OR diet when you are fatter, it actually responds worse.

Bodyfat gives no advantage to a powerlifter and only disadvantages them. There is no reason for powerlifters to be fat and their performance and potential for strength and mass gains is exponentially better at a leaner body composition.

With all this being said, it’s a generality of why you shouldn’t run gear fat. I’m not saying fat people have absolutely no place using any PEDs, I’m just saying if your fat and using gear, the goal should be to not be fat anymore. If you were once lean and found yourself with a little extra stomach gains and now your looking for a slight competitive edge to trim down to get back to manageable body composition, all the power to you. @Skarpyona your write up is a perfect example to the exception of the rule.

I just wanted to add that in there so that fat people aren’t tempted to stay fat and run gear. The effects and the gains will always be exponentially less.

And add that powerlifters do not have to be fat, and having higher bodyfat does not give them any competitive edge at all in their training or competitions or diet. It actually does the opposite and hinders their performance and progress, all the time. Being a powerlifter is not a valid excuse to be fat.

This I agree with

In come the posts 'Eddie hall is fat so I can be fat! "Eddie hall isn't fat, those things hanging from the side of his pecs aren't fat, because a photoshopped pic of him flexing his stomach I can see the outline of abs"

Clown world. I say we let the fatties be fat and run their gear, when they ask "what BP med to take" plenty will give them a list and enable them and confirm their mind set of pushing that scale up to 300, 400 lol

 

[rfan2020]

There not fat there just big boned.

That guy in the pic Eddie hall isn't fat? His stomach doesn't stick out and there isn't muffin top hanging over his shorts and some jiggles on the front and Side of his pecs?

 

[jJjburton]

That guy in the pic Eddie hall isn't fat? His stomach doesn't stick out and there isn't muffin top hanging over his shorts and some jiggles on the front and Side of his pecs?

It was a joke.

 

[SauceBoss]

My best friend who actually pinned me for my first time yearsssss ago who used PEDS was 30% plus... no gains nothing trained hard but he would gas out his mind was always on cardio.. Over the 5 years I blast and cruised and he did as well but was doctor prescribed androgel for hypogonadism from childhood cancer. He literally showed slim to no gains as I put on 40+lbs at my last bulk. He just got a bulkier and face got a lot more round. AI and all.. I agree

 

[SauceBoss]

Man just google Lee Priest off season and bask in his lack of fucks for maintaining abs. Man's a hero

View attachment 150612

Dude that’s priest ?! Wowwwwww ... dude is also a genetic freak with an insane amount of muscle at his peak

 

[xvdreQ]

There's plenty of room for both camps.

Body builders obsessed with looks.

And strong guys that are fat as fuck.

 

[narta]

Using gear for enhancement purposes on high-er body fat percentages without prior knowledge either in gear itself or proper nutrition and training is dumb.

For people that have the knowledge and experience it's just another tool in the box that can be used to achieve a goal.