Accidentally injecting T into a blood vessel

[MANWHORE]

Wait. What were we talking about again??

We were just discussing how sad it's going
to be for the Kings, after the Devils get done with them

 

[idmd]

That's 100% backwards. The part of statistics people don't understand is precisely that even if the consequences of an event are catastrophic, a rational approach to risk dictates you must *also* take into account the probability of the event occurring.

If you don't take that approach -- if instead you take the approach that says "Yes I know it's a small risk, but I won't care about that if it happens to me" -- then you will be making sub-optimal decisions all across your life.

And that instinct is corrosive, not just personally but in society overall. People scared about unlikely events can be manipulated by politicians who use fear to subdue. This is why Franklin said, "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

And yet today we get felt up at airports and told we can't bring shampoo.

Wait. What were we talking about again??

Statistics are never interpreted as just a number. The actual event being analyzed needs to be considered. If for instance there's a 1 in 10,000 chance of an adverse rxn taking a medication that will prevent your death then it's a risk/benefit issue. If there is a 1 in 10000 chance of an adverse rxn if you don't take 2 seconds to pull back on a plunger which itself causes no increased risk of adverse rxn or money or reasources then the risk benefit for something so small is there in my opinion.

It's the difference between simply crunching a number and actually understanding REALLY what that number is telling you.

FWIW.....at a parade so on a phone so not responsible for spelling/grammar

 

[idmd]

BTW...I have no idea what the actual chance of pulmonary oil embolism is for test...I assume it's low but if you read at least anecdotally on forums it does happen and it is very unpleasant.

 

[pinkman]

What has a bigger risk? Injecting huge amounts like nebido for example or injecting small amounts of testosterone on a weekly basis? If you for example accidentally hit a blood vessel and then inject a huge amount of liquid then you're in bigger danger right? Does this mean that nebido is more dangerous than small weekly injections?
The problem is after reading these horror stories I'd probably directly get an anxiety attack after injecting.

 

[idmd]

Ok back. Last point. Some times 1 in 10000 means do it and sometimes it means don't do it. It depends on how bad the outcome is and difficult/expensive/time consuming/reasource intensive the intervention is going to be.

I will agree most people (especially the general public) has no idea how to interpret stats because they ONLY consider the value of the number and NOT what it really means to their lives.

Now yes you will approach numbers that it ain't going to happen in this life time or the next but that's not what we're talking about with aspiration. It happens - just look at the boards.

 

[BBC3]

Couldnt resist this one (as many as I have posted in). First, if you are in muscle tissue - you are not going to find a major vein like you are thinking of, or the ones you see running ON TOP OF or ADJACENT muscles. I am suprised I have not seen the old "the vein will collapse" first statement yet... LOL.

SO really, unless you are completely mis-informed, you are not going to hit a vein thats gonna carry the load around immediately, and if you did, your would probable hit the floor pretty quick and in the first couple of seconds. I actually know docs that dont aspirate their own IM injections.

The real problem is this. Usually what happens (even when you aspirate) is that you pass through a vein and get no blood reporting and as soon as the oil starts backing out its in the vein. Its the Benyzl ALcohol you feel making you cough as your lungs expell it... It is uncomfortable and thats all. I actually had one last for 5 mins once. I think it was back when I was beginning and pinned some absurb 2-3ml dose in the rump. Personally (and I never cared to stop regardless of learning this time again), I found that you can feel a "snap", or detect a change in the way the needle is entering if you pass through a substantial vessel. Keep in mind its the pressure you create by the oil displacing the tissue that is forcing it into circulation. If you keep dosing @ 1cc or less you minimize the chances for whatever thats worth...

 

[Structure]

At the risk of offending people even more than I've managed to do so far, can I ask: are you an American? Reason I ask is that contrary to its "Home of the Brave" moniker, the USA is the most shit scared place I've ever seen, especially since 9/11. People here are scared of everything that ever appears in the news no matter how utterly rare it is. I don't understand it to be honest. The place was settled by bad-ass Europeans who had the balls, and presumably the Testosterone, to push across the entire continent, killing natives as they went, and generally showing everyone who was boss. Something seems to have gone badly awry in the intervening few hundred years.

Pinkman and Beav7 have both repeatedly made posts in the form of "I can't possibly use TRT because [insert irrational argument here]. This is way too risky." They are so similar that someone should do an IP check to see if they are the same person.

As far as your theory goes: nope, they both are from Germany.

 

[pinkman]

Yeah it's totally irrational to be afraid of injections when users report feeling like dying when they hit a vein. Totally irrational, indeed.
I'd rather take testosterone as suppository than as injection if this existed.

 

[keriheat]

MANWHORE said : I like pulling the skin to the side just before injecting, then injecting, then pulling out the pin, then letting the
skin go back over the whole.. If that even works. It seems to
when I get the chance to do it, but it's hard to do when I do shoulder
shots alot.

I've heard about that. They call it a 'Z' shot. I have never tried it, but they say it works.

@chrono, I dont like your pee analogy. If you could pressurize the pee into the water pipe, that pee is going wherever that water is headed. Could be trouble. No?

 

[chronological]

@chrono, I dont like your pee analogy. If you could pressurize the pee into the water pipe, that pee is going wherever that water is headed. Could be trouble. No?

No, you're absolutely right. But you'd need to pee *into* the pipe. If you just peed on and around it, you may get some contamination, but not a lot.

All I was saying to mac111 was (in response to his "i have on occasion flooded a syringe with blood, ") was that that alone -- the flooding of blood -- doesn't necessarily mean he'd have had a problem had he injected. It's just the same as seeing the burst water pipe filling up the hole in the soil; just peeing into the hole doesn't mean you're going to get a bladder full getting back into the system.

I can't say for sure, but I imagine that our veins run *roughly* parallel to the surface of the skin. But IM injections at least are done perpendicular to the skin. So as I say it's unlikely the needle is going to be *in* the vein. In fact, it's quite possible that even a reasonable amount of blood can be seen merely from damage to capillaries, and you're not going to deliver anything like a problematic amount via those.

 

[idmd]

I can't say for sure, but I imagine that our veins run *roughly* parallel to the surface of the skin. But IM injections at least are done perpendicular to the skin. So as I say it's unlikely the needle is going to be *in* the vein. In fact, it's quite possible that even a reasonable amount of blood can be seen merely from damage to capillaries, and you're not going to deliver anything like a problematic amount via those.

Remember there are varying inches of adipose tissue covering those derrières and with some people using a 1" needle it's not crazy to think the tip of that needle could end up in superficial portion of the muscle.

I'm not saying it's likely but it seems to happen on occasion and IF anyone is worried about it....well you know my common sense opinion.

 

[chronological]

Yeah it's totally irrational to be afraid of injections when users report feeling like dying when they hit a vein. Totally irrational, indeed.

Apparently people feel like they are dying when sharks eat them. Don't you swim in the sea?
Apparently people feel like they are dying as they choke to death on the aspirin they just mis-swallowed. Don't you take aspirins (or pills in general)?
Apparently people feel like they are dying as the flames in their burning car close in around them after they were hit by an 18 wheeler. Don't you drive?

It's not irrational to be afraid of even a tiny risk, sure. But it *is* irrational (or maybe "sub-optimal" would be better) to be more afraid of risk A versus risk B, when A has an expected impact (actual impact if it happens times probability it happens) orders of magnitude lower than that of risk B.

 

[solo47]

Pinkman (lovely name, that), if you're afraid to inject and do not intend to inject then don't inject. Why are you even bothering to post on here since your fearful mind is already made up? Obviously if you go on HRT you will use Test cream or gel or suppositories or a stick-on patch.

Solo

 

[chronological]

FWIW.....at a parade so on a phone so not responsible for spelling/grammar

You're at a parade!! Holy crap man; there are people there! And vehicles. For all I know there may even be food!! You could be attacked, or stepped on, or driven over. You might even choke on a waffle!

Get out while there's still time bro!

 

[chronological]

Why are you even bothering to post on here ...

Same reason we all post on here, Solo; to be subjected to rounds of ridicule and tomfoolery and receive helpings of myth, fabrications and other wild opinions from the rest of us.

 

[idmd]

Same reason we all post on here, Solo; to be subjected to rounds of ridicule and tomfoolery and receive helpings of myth, fabrications and other wild opinions from the rest of us.

I detect a hint of sarcasm in there but hell those are the ONLY reasons I come here

If I wanted real answers I'd just ask real doctors...not strangers on the interweb!

 

[chronological]

... the tip of that needle could end up in superficial portion of the muscle.

What's that exactly? I expressed concern to my nurse that the big ass scary 1.5" needle I was using was, well, big ass and scary. (I kinda wondered if maybe it might reach the bone ). She said I should absolutely be using *at least* 1.5" precisely so that it does get through the skin and adipose tissue and into the muscle. Is that wrong?

FWIW, she also mentioned that for some injections (not TRT) it's worth using a 4" needle! Glad I'm not getting those.

 

[chronological]

If I wanted real answers I'd just ask real doctors...

Whoa, point of order Sir. "Real" doctors are DSc types and the like. Kinda real doctors are the PhD types. But the frauds, cads, and pavement pirates of the "doctor" world are the MDs. Strictly speaking they should be *Masters* of Medicine (i.e. MM) not Doctors.

Still, your overall point remains. Beneath DSc, and PhD, and M"D", you have fifty feet of crap, and then POTS (Participant On Think Steroids).

 

[idmd]

What's that exactly? I expressed concern to my nurse that the big ass scary 1.5" needle I was using was, well, big ass and scary. (I kinda wondered if maybe it might reach the bone ). She said I should absolutely be using *at least* 1.5" precisely so that it does get through the skin and adipose tissue and into the muscle. Is that wrong?

FWIW, she also mentioned that for some injections (not TRT) it's worth using a 4" needle! Glad I'm not getting those.

I agree (and it may depend on your ass) that there is a minimum length needed to make it squarely into muscle. If you're lean 1" may be fine. If your obese probably not.

 

[idmd]

Whoa, point of order Sir. "Real" doctors are DSc types and the like. Kinda real doctors are the PhD types. But the frauds, cads, and pavement pirates of the "doctor" world are the MDs. Strictly speaking they should be *Masters* of Medicine (i.e. MM) not Doctors.

Still, your overall point remains. Beneath DSc, and PhD, and M"D", you have fifty feet of crap, and then POTS (Participant On Think Steroids).

No by "real" doctors I mean tangible people who I can touch and not avatars on the Internet.