Advice needed for mass gaining

[bearbbbb96]

Hi all,

26 male here just finished my first natural contest.
I'm planning to start my first cycle in a week. Could you guys give me some advice for mass gaining?

Thank you

cycle:
wk1-wk4 test e 250mg
Wk4-wk6 test e 375mg
Wk6-wk16 test e 500mg, primo e 200mg
Wk16 ~ test e 250mg

Diet:
2200 cals rmr
3000 cals tdee (excluding calories burned from lifting weights)
Bulking cals 3200-3400
I'm also considering adding 75mcg of t3 just so i can get away eating more chicken and rice

stats:
26male
160 lbs at 5-6% bodyfat
5'9

 

[TestTrenPrimo]

Don’t add the t3. Eat 34-3600. Start at 500 test / 200 primo, never been a fan of the hormonal rollercoaster that is titration. Consider something like Deca/NPP if really tryna add mass.

Just my opinion.

Edit: just realized you said very first cycle. Tackle it without the primo, it’ll give you a lifelong lesson on controlling e2 with an AI

 

[grey]

Bulking cals 3200-3400
I'm also considering adding 75mcg of t3 just so i can get away eating more chicken and rice

Stop with the t3 if you are bulking.

Start eating.

Learn to get over your obsession with low bf% to bulk.

 

[fooba]

eat eat eat. most people overestimate how much theyre eating.

 

[bearbbbb96]

My natural test level was 290 after my contest.

Should I aim for a higher calorie surplus?

 

[BigTomJ]

Not bad for a natural, well done!

cycle:
wk1-wk4 test e 250mg
Wk4-wk6 test e 375mg
Wk6-wk16 test e 500mg, primo e 200mg
Wk16 ~ test e 250mg

Forget absolutely all of this. Do not titrate your doses, all this does is make sides worse and makes it harder to dial in any AI if needed.
The natural release and secretion time of the ester does all the titrating for you.


Stick to test only, the goal of a first cycle isn't just to make the most progress, but it's also a data collection opportunity to see your individual response, tolerance, and aromatization rate.

Do test only at 400-500mg a week for 16 weeks or so (you can push out to 20 if everything is going well and bloodwork looks good)

Get bloodwork Percycle as a baseline, then again at 5ish weeks to check your aromatization rate to dial in your AI dosage (if needed)(aromasin is a better option than adex, it's more tolerable and more forgiving and doesn't rebound like adex does)



Absolutely do not use t3, especially in a mass gaining phase, that makes absolutely no sense. Even in a contest prep scenario t3 should only be used with very careful consideration, most guys get along fine without it.

 

[grey]

My natural test level was 290 after my contest.

290 ng/dl?!?!?

At 26? Without having cycled before?

Dude, that makes very little sense as it would be low enough for TRT.

Is that the only bloodwork you have done for Test?

 

[bearbbbb96]

290 ng/dl?!?!?

At 26? Without having cycled before?

Dude, that makes very little sense as it would be low enough for TRT.

Is that the only bloodwork you have done for Test?

Yeah i think my testosterone crashed from lack of sleep and aggressive cutting + intense training for 3 months

 

[bearbbbb96]

What would you recommend for
calories?

 

[TheRingloVale]

What would you recommend for
calories?

Go up to 4000 and see what happens. If you're getting too fat then cut it by 250

 

[Astartes]

What would you recommend for
calories?

At your height and weight 3250 to 3500 is a solid starting point for clean bulking calories. Also @BigTomJ has given you solid advice on hormones and ancillaries. Start there

 

[bearbbbb96]

Not bad for a natural, well done!


Forget absolutely all of this. Do not titrate your doses, all this does is make sides worse and makes it harder to dial in any AI if needed.
The natural release and secretion time of the ester does all the titrating for you.


Stick to test only, the goal of a first cycle isn't just to make the most progress, but it's also a data collection opportunity to see your individual response, tolerance, and aromatization rate.

Do test only at 400-500mg a week for 16 weeks or so (you can push out to 20 if everything is going well and bloodwork looks good)

Get bloodwork Percycle as a baseline, then again at 5ish weeks to check your aromatization rate to dial in your AI dosage (if needed)(aromasin is a better option than adex, it's more tolerable and more forgiving and doesn't rebound like adex does)



Absolutely do not use t3, especially in a mass gaining phase, that makes absolutely no sense. Even in a contest prep scenario t3 should only be used with very careful consideration, most guys get along fine without it.

Thank you for your advice. I will try 500mg pinning 250 mg 2 times a week. How much should i aim to gain for 16~20 weeks? Realistically, i don't think i can gain 15 to 20 pounds of lean body mass unless i respond really good to steroids.

 

[effswithtren]

Enanthate titrates up on its own just fine, you don’t need to dick around with this 250/375 shit. And don’t add the primo yet. It’ll likely lower your e2, which isn’t bad necessarily, but you’ll have no idea how you aromatize and you’ll need that info for subsequent cycles. Anyway, add one compound at a time in general because science. How else will you know what does what, what you like and what you don’t, etc?

There’s no point in being a fatass, but +200 calories nonsense. You’re going to run the risk of miscounting cutting it too close, or being catabolic at various times throughout the day. Up it to 500ish. You HAVE to accept the fact that you will add some fat or you’ll end up spinning your wheels.

And save the T3 for a cut, or better yet the trash can.

 

[effswithtren]

Not bad for a natural, well done!


Forget absolutely all of this. Do not titrate your doses, all this does is make sides worse and makes it harder to dial in any AI if needed.
The natural release and secretion time of the ester does all the titrating for you.


Stick to test only, the goal of a first cycle isn't just to make the most progress, but it's also a data collection opportunity to see your individual response, tolerance, and aromatization rate.

Do test only at 400-500mg a week for 16 weeks or so (you can push out to 20 if everything is going well and bloodwork looks good)

Get bloodwork Percycle as a baseline, then again at 5ish weeks to check your aromatization rate to dial in your AI dosage (if needed)(aromasin is a better option than adex, it's more tolerable and more forgiving and doesn't rebound like adex does)



Absolutely do not use t3, especially in a mass gaining phase, that makes absolutely no sense. Even in a contest prep scenario t3 should only be used with very careful consideration, most guys get along fine without it.

This is good advice.

 

[BigTomJ]

How much should i aim to gain for 16~20 weeks

This is super individual and has no real good answer.

Don't focus on the scale, just make sure you're in a decent enough surplus and train as hard as you have up to this point, or even harder.

The gains will come, any number myself or anyone else can spit out at you will be entirely arbitrary and a 100% guess that will only serve to distract you.

 

[grey]

Yeah i think my testosterone crashed from lack of sleep and aggressive cutting + intense training for 3 months

It may well have been crashed but please, BEFORE you start any cycling get this checked out.

A guy your age shouldn't be at 290. If you get tested again and this is way up, great, if not then you have some underlying health issues that should get looked at first before cycling.

As other have said, up your planned calories by 500/day or more.

Your body is essentially starved to the bone and screaming for nutrition. Without giving it that nutrtion the steroids simply aren't going to have much if any effect as you have ZERO energy reserves to draw from to fuel MPS.

This is an ideal place to start gaining massive amount of lean tissue but that will NOT happen without the fuel.

 

[Astartes]

Thank you for your advice. I will try 500mg pinning 250 mg 2 times a week. How much should i aim to gain for 16~20 weeks? Realistically, i don't think i can gain 15 to 20 pounds of lean body mass unless i respond really good to steroids.

Take what your body gives you.

Expectation/projection on gains when you haven’t ridden the roller coaster of bulk and cut for a while is pointless. You just don’t know. Nor do we.

We see this all the time. Over analysis or wanting to set expectation by parameters.

While some things lend to that (half lives of compounds, injection frequency etc…) others like results are dependent on so many factors that it is really impossible for anyone else to give you a quantifiable answer.

There is a balance between under researching and just leaping in with no information, and paralysis by analysis. Do your research, then start logging your progress and set expectations based on results.

 

[effswithtren]

I think I'm at a decent place to start peds although I possibly can gain another 10 to 15 pounds naturally over few years.

You’re in a way better place than I was when I started. I was a skinny ass bitch. Not anymore though. Now I’m a skinny ass bitch with titties.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

I won’t comment about the cycle nor the calories.

I will just say that Test 500mg first cycle is a shit first cycle.
The standar first cycle before the internet was
1 ml test 1ml deca
Some dbols at the start some winstrol sun the end.
That was a really good first cycle no sides just a lot of gains due to synergy.

Nowadays I see in the gym guys on their first cycle etc they’re using 500mg test they have pimples they have water retention. They’re not pretty nor they changing much they become just a tad bigger natural self with some water retention
Whereas with the old cycle you’d see transformations everywhere !!

Test is an advance compound IME if you want to raise the dosage.

 

[4Drago]

-500mg test is all you need...feeling spiffy up the test a little.
-change your workouts for building mass. Focus on Your core muscle exercises...bench press, squats, dead lifts. Get in, hit it hard, get out. Checkout some YouTube and listen to Dorian Yates about intense short workouts for mass.
- you need to up your calories a hell of a lot more ( dirty bulk or clean eat like a mother fucker). You should fell like a pregnant woman most of the time if you're eating enough.
- recovery and sleep are major important. 4 days a week workouts are enough, intense workouts.