ADVICE PLEASE! Calorie intake for cutting while on Deca - getting mixed answers

[Eman]

It was for 6 months and they averaged 125g of protein. They kept logs. No control group cause they were seeing what was gonna happen compared to them working out. We all know what would have happened if they were working out.
This was discussed in a training thread I think actually and someone did post it. A few of us read it before it was posted. This was months ago. Not looking for it. I'll post it if I can find it quickly.

I vaguely recall it, that's why I asked if you could post it. Seems to me there was quite a few questionable points to the study... There would have to be.

A lot of guys don't achieve these things on their first cycle, even when working their ass off.

 

[TRT]

Every noob on here already thinks gear is the magic bullet.
Most of us know that you need to train twice as hard, and eat great to get results out of it.
Then you have guys like @TRT saying you don't need to eat anything or train, you're still going to get huge. Pure fiction.
You're going to have some noob reading this and doing the math from the above study, thinking that if they run 2g a week their results will be even better, and they won't have to train or eat!!
No disrespect to TRT, in fact I've liked a lot of his posts, but I Thought Meso was a safety board. Why encourage or fuel noob stupidity?

Well if you feel that strongly about how bad it is then I guess we'll just mark it off as bullshit and not post the study right?

The study has already been posted and discussed in a training thread here. To late noobs are doing it.

Oh and by the way. You and I both know that a man with the best diet, training, and workout routine can't beat a smoker with shity diet who's on steroids.

 

[JC456]

So he's mentioned 2000 calories, we're on the second page and no one has asked for his maintenance?

Wonderful!

 

[TRT]

I vaguely recall it, that's why I asked if you could post it. Seems to me there was quite a few questionable points to the study... There would have to be.

A lot of guys don't achieve these things on their first cycle, even when working their ass off.

I agree. If you or I took this study we'd actually loose lean muscle mass especially if we were reduces in calories. If a natty worked out for a year and then did this study I think they'd gain lean body mass.(I think your natty gains go way past a year but that's just me.)

 

[TRT]

This isn't the 6 month long one but just double the numbers and you'll get a ballpark figure. This one was 7+lbs in less the 3months.

“The magic bullet” about steroids aka Bhasin et al, 1996

But lo and behold, in 1996 Shalender Bhasin had a paper published in one of the most prestigious medical journals, the New England Journal of Medicine, describing a study that would forever change the view on anabolic steroids (Bhasin et al, 1996). Essentially the study was a double cross-over study in which 43 young healthy normal weight men, were put on standardized diets and then into one of four intervention groups:

No exercise, placebo
No exercise, 600 mg Testosterone Enanthate weekly
Resistance exercise 3 times/week, placebo
Resistance exercise 3 times/week, 600 mg Testosterone Enanthate weekly

for a period of 10 weeks. For reference, the recommended prescribed dose of testosterone for replacement therapy is 250 mg every 2 to three weeks. So 600 mg/week is preeeeetty supraphysiological, but still well below what is used in lifting circles, even for beginners. Naturally, these guys grew muscle and got leaner, but how much? Bhasin reported that the changes in fat-free mass were as follows, per group:

+0.8 kg
+3.2 kg -no exercise, 600mg Test
+2.0 kg
+6.1 kg

Thereby proving beyond any reasonable doubt that 600 mgs of Testosterone Enanthate per week does indeed cause skeletal muscle hypertrophy and increases in strength (strength data not shown in this blog post).

DATA FROM BHASIN’S LANDMARK STUDY SHOWING ROBUST MUSCLE HYPERTROPHY WITH TESTOSTERONE, EVEN IN THE ABSENCE OF TRAINING.

But besides showing that testosterone actually works, it also shows that testosterone causes skeletal muscle hypertrophy and strength improvements even in the absence of training! 3.2 kgs of muscle in 10 weeks with no exercise… That’s not too shabby if you ask me. Also, no exercise and testosterone actually worked better than the exercise by itself…

 

[Leancuisine]

So he's mentioned 2000 calories, we're on the second page and no one has asked for his maintenance?

Wonderful!

2450.

 

[JC456]

2450.

For a maintenance of 2450, a drop to 2000 for a cut seems reasonable.

 

[Throwback]

2450.

That cant be correct for a 6ft 215 lbs man with moderate physical exercise.

 

[Eman]

So he's mentioned 2000 calories, we're on the second page and no one has asked for his maintenance?

Wonderful!

Passive aggressive much?

 

[Leancuisine]

That cant be correct for a 6ft 215 lbs man with moderate physical exercise.

He has 40-50 lbs of fat on him.

 

[JC456]

Passive aggressive much?

Sorry if I offended.

But still... when you're setting up a calorie deficit, the maintenance is the first point of reference. Without knowing that you can't set a deficit.

Pointing out that this has been missed by an entire page of waffle, is that passive aggressive? I don't think so. It's pointing out what needs to be pointed out to get a working solution.

 

[Rockclimber]

Bro if your going to cut then you need to cut. I'm 241lbs and last cut I ate only 1890 calories a day and still got over 200 grams of protein a day. 2200 Cal is way too much for you while on a cycle. 2200 would be OK if you were natty but make the use of your cycle and cut. Your goal of 2000 sounds fine, start that yesterday and report back here in 4 weeks with your thoughts.

 

[Eman]

Sorry if I offended.

But still... when you're setting up a calorie deficit, the maintenance is the first point of reference. Without knowing that you can't set a deficit.

Pointing out that this has been missed by an entire page of waffle, is that passive aggressive? I don't think so. It's pointing out what needs to be pointed out to get a working solution.

It was mostly a jab, but yes it was passive aggressive lol.

Normally, that would be my first question or one of my first questions.. but honestly I thought OP was so all over the place that I didn't know where to actually begin.

I do understand your point though! I think there are a ton of other issues going on aside from maintenance intake though.

 

[JC456]

It was mostly a jab, but yes it was passive aggressive lol.

Normally, that would be my first question or one of my first questions.. but honestly I thought OP was so all over the place that I didn't know where to actually begin.

I do understand your point though! I think there are a ton of other issues going on aside from maintenance intake though.

I have a sense of humour that might take some getting used to. This is why I don't venture away from my private forums very much

 

[Throwback]

He has 40-50 lbs of fat on him.

Tdee calculator.net puts maintenance at 3186 for a 6ft 215 at 20%bf with moderate exercise.