Are we using too much trenbolone?

[JeffroCat]

All the real monsters/pros in bodybuilding took as much aas as they could handle to get to size. Then it was just a dosing game to figure out what it took to maintain. Some would drop a little in the off-season but they knew exactly what it took to get back and ready for competition.
Every single one of them lies about real dosage. If they were 100% honest then the game begins where everyone says their genetics came from a bottle/vial and not hard work or real genetics. This would make them unmarketable. It's all about money and being on top with the elite few. Even in retirement they can't be completely honest. They still live off the money even then. Tom Platz makes me laugh with his dosage claims. Lee Priest is another one. All full of shit. If they're on YouTube or doing some interview it's all about staying in the limelight and making money.

Omg Tom Platz makes me laugh too. Not just because of his obvious lies about drug use, but because he never really makes any sense when he talks.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

All the real monsters/pros in bodybuilding took as much aas as they could handle to get to size. Then it was just a dosing game to figure out what it took to maintain. Some would drop a little in the off-season but they knew exactly what it took to get back and ready for competition.
Every single one of them lies about real dosage. If they were 100% honest then the game begins where everyone says their genetics came from a bottle/vial and not hard work or real genetics. This would make them unmarketable. It's all about money and being on top with the elite few. Even in retirement they can't be completely honest. They still live off the money even then. Tom Platz makes me laugh with his dosage claims. Lee Priest is another one. All full of shit. If they're on YouTube or doing some interview it's all about staying in the limelight and making money.

Your feelings would be hurt by the ACTUAL cycles of mid-tier to elite IFBB pros.

There are certainly times drugs are high.

What none of you seem to understand is that those times are 9 times out of 10, for a smart competitor, pre contest to hold onto muscle and stay hard and grainy and NOT when we're able to eat and train our hardest.

 

[Juicedhead]

Now we're getting into a bit of opinion & surmise, but sure, I think 70 mg, +/-, is probably a close enough approximation for a sane initial dose, to assess Tren effects, efficacy/tolerability as a starting point, for the average or above average person in terms of AAS capacity/response. And what do ya know, it's right in line with what Negma came up with.

I don't like acetate for assessing Tren effects, this is my personal opinion. I'd just go with enanthate or hex. I think the at least alternate day pinning is already too much for someone new to trenbolone, it just reduces tolerability so much. I know I'll never go back to acetate, enanthate q.w. (1X/week) and boom, gtg.

so youre saying enen or hex tren is better than ace?

 

[Mac11wildcat]

so youre saying enen or hex tren is better than ace?

He's saying it's largely preference but that infrequent pins may be better for first time users.

 

[4Drago]

Your feelings would be hurt by the ACTUAL cycles of mid-tier to elite IFBB pros.

There are certainly times drugs are high.

What none of you seem to understand is that those times are 9 times out of 10, for a smart competitor, pre contest to hold onto muscle and stay hard and grainy and NOT when we're able to eat and train our hardest.

I'm not sure I understand your response? Are you saying that elite bodybuilders, that are public figures, are completely honest about their dosages? Because that's my point. They aren't completely honest about dosages. They took what they had to, and keep most intimate details private.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

I'm not sure I understand your response? Are you saying that elite bodybuilders, that are public figures, are completely honest about their dosages? Because that's my point. They aren't completely honest about dosages. They took what they had to, and keep most intimate details private.

Not because the doses are insane but because discussing drugs isn't everyone's cup of tea and isn't totally accepted in all circles. Some of us also prefer that information be kept with those who matter: coaches and a trusted doctor.

I'm a pro. @Beef_Stu_97 is a pro. We both know pros. The difference between pros and average joes isn't the amount of gear. This board should be ample proof of that.

 

[DECLAN]

Your feelings would be hurt by the ACTUAL cycles of mid-tier to elite IFBB pros.

There are certainly times drugs are high.

What none of you seem to understand is that those times are 9 times out of 10, for a smart competitor, pre contest to hold onto muscle and stay hard and grainy and NOT when we're able to eat and train our hardest.

No one wants to admit that all pros have better genetics than us gym rats ultimately. In the end of the day, they will always turn to dosages as the main difference that separates us regular folks and the pros like you.

While in reality, even if I take 2 or 3 grams of anabolics, my genetics might not even scratch 200lbs, while you can get to it naturally.

 

[4Drago]

Not because the doses are insane but because discussing drugs isn't everyone's cup of tea and isn't totally accepted in all circles. Some of us also prefer that information be kept with those who matter: coaches and a trusted doctor.

I'm a pro. @Beef_Stu_97 is a pro. We both know pros. The difference between pros and average joes isn't the amount of gear. This board should be ample proof of that.

I understand what you're saying. But you pretty much proved my point. Bodybuilders, that are in the public eye, aren't honest about dosages. Big emphasis on " public eye". I don't blame them at all! Why would you be completely honest when the average idiot just thinks all it takes is a few injections to be amazing.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

Pros are pros it means they live from it but they’re also passionate and they live for it.

We are everyday people we do other jobs we have other responsibilities we maybe miss meals or cheat the diet, we maybe don’t rest enough that day or this day.

I’ve done cycles high dosages let’s say 2g
But I had much greater results on 1g and very strict on all aspects of bodybuilding.
If I the average joe had much greater results on strict regiment and half the dosage , imagine what a person who is strict and also respond good to aas , what can this person do.

Pros are strict enough on diet on rest on training on their health everyday if the year that’s what separates them.

 

[4Drago]

Not because the doses are insane but because discussing drugs isn't everyone's cup of tea and isn't totally accepted in all circles. Some of us also prefer that information be kept with those who matter: coaches and a trusted doctor.

I'm a pro. @Beef_Stu_97 is a pro. We both know pros. The difference between pros and average joes isn't the amount of gear. This board should be ample proof of that.

Also, I didn't say anything about insane dosages. Bodybuilders just know what it takes to get them where they need to be. If that's a gram or more, doesn't matter. They still aren't honest about what they took to get them there. Saying " I never took more then 500mg combined" is an example. I venture to say cycles are pretty significant during the contest prep phase. But, for someone like Tom Platz to say crap like only 300mg or 500mg max is just silly.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

I understand what you're saying. But you pretty much proved my point. Bodybuilders, that are in the public eye, aren't honest about dosages. Big emphasis on " public eye". I don't blame them at all! Why would you be completely honest when the average idiot just thinks all it takes is a few injections to be amazing.

What I'm saying is, it isn't common knowledge because we're trying to hide what we actually use, it isn't common knowledge because it isn't anyone's business and y'all doubt is anyways. That's exactly my point. The vast majority of bodybuilding fans think we're using a shit ton.

 

[narta]

The difference between pros and average joes isn't the amount of gear.

Of course drugs are not the major difference between a gymrat and a pro. Consistency, dedication, laser focus and genetics play a huge role.

But to say that pros drug usage doesn't play a considerable part on their physique is absurd. Most pros lie and deceive because their livehood depends on supplement contracts and supplement lines they own.
No 17yr old is going to buy their endorsed protein shake if they know they are using 3gr of gear, but they will buy the rat dick extract that X pro endorses that uses just an amp of deca and a few dbols, because it was the dick extract that gave them 23" arms not the mere amp of deca.

If I had a genie and 3 wishes on of them would be that no pro athlete, no matter the sport, could lie about their PEDs usage ever again.

 

[4Drago]

What I'm saying is, it isn't common knowledge because we're trying to hide what we actually use, it isn't common knowledge because it isn't anyone's business and y'all doubt is anyways. That's exactly my point. The vast majority of bodybuilding fans think we're using a shit ton.

I agree with this statement.

 

[4Drago]

In elite sports like say drag racing, you don't give out the mix of your fuel formula or timing. I'd imagine elite bodybuilders don't want to give out their formula (cycle) either. It's competition not sharing time.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

Of course drugs are not the major difference between a gymrat and a pro. Consistency, dedication, laser focus and genetics play a huge role.

But to say that pros drug usage doesn't play a considerable part on their physique is absurd. Most pros lie and deceive because their livehood depends on supplement contracts and supplement lines they own.
No 17yr old is going to buy their endorsed protein shake if they know they are using 3gr of gear, but they will buy the rat dick extract that X pro endorses that uses just an amp of deca and a few dbols, because it was the dick extract that gave them 23" arms not the mere amp of deca.

If I had a genie and 3 wishes on of them would be that no pro athlete, no matter the sport, could lie about their PEDs usage ever again.

I could give someone with a pro mindset and someone with an average mindset the same drugs, food, training, and rest protocol and you'd still end up with 1 pro and 1 nobody in the world of bodybuilding.

The two biggest factors are genetics and execution. Period.

We didn't go pro because we decide to use more drugs than someone else. I know DOZENS of guys who barely look like they lift that use more gear than me and have for longer. I know pros who use what I do or less for half the time and are further along than I am.

I'm not saying the drugs aren't important. I'm saying they're not the differentiator.

 

[lukiss96]

so youre saying enen or hex tren is better than ace?

All I know is ace and hex are waaay better for me in terms of side effects. Fuck tren e. Never again.

 

[narta]

I could give someone with a pro mindset and someone with an average mindset the same drugs, food, training, and rest protocol and you'd still end up with 1 pro and 1 nobody in the world of bodybuilding.

The two biggest factors are genetics and execution. Period.

We didn't go pro because we decide to use more drugs than someone else. I know DOZENS of guys who barely look like they lift that use more gear than me and have for longer. I know pros who use what I do or less for half the time and are further along than I am.

I'm not saying the drugs aren't important. I'm saying they're not the differentiator.

No drugs are not THE differentiator but they play a considerable role to ones success. Remember when Milos introduced heavy usage of slin in the regiments of his clients? Boom!

But real dosages are often downplayed because being honest about drug usage will often cast a shadow to ones accomplishments, his hard earned blood sweat and tears training and dieting AND rob him of potential contracts and earnings.

I personally don't give a flying fuck what anyone else is using, unless is outright abuse posted in a forum that some 100lbs kid will copy and harm themselves in the processes. But I do raise an eye brow when the 270lbs behemoth says that he is ONLY on TRT or the latest bs protocol of 10mg/ED test, that some has been, is pushing (along whit his bs "supplement") in another forum, that can produce Masters Mr O. physiques. Yeah fuck that...

 

[Nilatac]

Not everyone responds to aas the same.
1g ( or any amount) for one person wouldn't equal the same outcome for everyone considering all other factors are equal.
One guy could be on 1g and have worse results than the guy that take 500mg.
Drug response is another factor that makes a difference and you can't do anything about it.

Also a pro in bodybuilding is still a nobody in bodybuilding.
There are thousands of pros nowadays but no one knows their names and have like 3k followers on ig.
Pro card isn't what it used to be. They give pro cards like candy. Around 1000 each year.
This became a big business rather than a award for someone on the top. 200$ was the tax to compete last time I knew.
You give 200$ and if you win you can put IFBB Pro next to your name on IG. That's all you can do with that award.
And guys are getting broke to follow that. Man you are in your 30s and you struggle big time to pay the bills because all your money that you earn are spend for you to walk on a stage after you shave your hair put a cream on you and wear a underwear that is covering just your ass hole and if you win (IF) you can put ifbb pro next to your ig name.
Whatever. That's the "sport".

Truth is what pros takes is a curiosity for regular gym goers. Nothing more nothing less. Just a curiosity like how many L of water a human can drink before he dies. Is a curiosity but no one or at least no normal human will try and see.
We have different responses from not much to a shit load. If the guy isn't gifted the response will be a shit load and some more on top.
Dave Crossland has talked about dosage in pros and he said that there are guys who went pro on 1,5g and there are pros pushing over 5g. Depending how is your genetic. That guy I don't believe that is he lying.
But without the drugs wouldn't anyone turn pro so don't give such a low importance

 

[Beef_Stu_97]

You are THE Beef Stu with the awesome DO?

Welcome to the board man!

yes I'm the guy with the hair lol

 

[Beef_Stu_97]

In terms of total mg per week, I think most guys are around the 2g mark, plus or minus a few hundred mg. That's where I'm at for a blast usually, although I'd like to bring that down as I get deeper into my career.

I'm talking about open pros here. 212 is different, they've got less muscle obviously and will generally need less drugs.

I've never actually met anyone IRL who took 3+ grams of shit. I'm sure it happens but I can't see that working very well tbh... at a certain point more gear can't really do anything: there's nothing to bind to, and it just metabolized or leads to shitty sides.