My logical explanation is side effects and covering all bases for growth. At the end of the day this entire conversation has to center on experimenting with what works for you individually. If you can maximize/achieve your goals with just test and GH I’d argue that’s the simplest and safest route. In fact I belive anyone who’s doing this casually/not for an athletic/competitive goal should minimize the complexity and get the most from the basics.
But for me, as a competitive pro, not possible.
I could run 2g of test and then have to use an insane amount of AI (I aromatize heavily) and also miss out on the unique benefits of DHTs and 19-nors.
Granted, I’m over a decade deep of finding my equation and doing this for a more intensive goal than most, but most of my experience in this realm has shown me that a cocktail at the same total dose as 1-2 drugs works far better for results, health, and minimizing the non “value added” drugs (estrogen control).
EDIT: I also believe far more in ratios than I do numbers and don’t buy into the idea that test is only useful because it aromatizes to estrogen. The low T high everything else working best is for a rare few in my experience.
Mac11, appreciate you dropping in and expanding on that especially from the competitive side. Your perspective carries weight given the arena you’re operating in.
If you don’t mind, I’d be genuinely interested in digging a bit deeper into how you personally manage estrogen relative to total androgen load. Not in a “numbers for numbers’ sake” way, but practically how high you’ve pushed total androgens before E2 became something that required active mitigation, and what you noticed along the way.
Specifically at what point did estrogen shift from being “useful” to becoming more of a nuisance? What symptoms showed up first for you, water, BP, mood, lethargy, joint issues, neurological stuff? And how much of that was reflected cleanly in labs versus just felt physiologically?
I agree with you that minimal compound exposure is ideal for the majority, and that test/GH (or test/one addition) covers a lot of ground. That’s largely how I operate as well. But I also think labs alone can be misleading depending on compound choice, DHTs, 19nors, Eq, all distort the picture in different ways.
I’m especially interested in the body level feedback, joint comfort, CNS fatigue, body aches, irritability, mental sharpness. For example, nandrolone clearly improves joint comfort, but it can also quietly mask low E irritability or neurological symptoms until you step back and reassess the whole picture.
I think your point about ratios over raw numbers is a big one, and I also agree that the “test only matters because it aromatizes” argument is oversimplified at best. In my experience as well, very low test with everything else high works for a narrow subset, not the norm. It's just interesting to see more of it taking place and the results being generally positive. Clearly staying injectable E isn't responding the same as tissue level aromatization.
If you’ve got time, I think a discussion framed around how it feels at different androgen/estrogen loads rather than just chasing lab targets, would be hugely valuable for a lot of people reading.
Thanks again for sharing your insight.
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