At what point does growth from AAS “max out”?

[mrsloppyboo]

Running 750 test 600 deca currently. Am going to add 400 mast to help with some deca sides and considering adding 400 tren e. My goal is to add as much size as possible this cycle to come back to the stage a different animal. My question is would the tren even add much extra size or is there a point where my body would be growing as fast as it possibly can from AAS alone?

 

[Tbaz192]

What’s your Age, stats, years of training, diet?

& you’re potentially about to add more & run 2150mgs or 2.1grams of gear, that’s wild. My body hurts just thinking about that.

Also concerning you’re asking this question but you compete? And want to come on stage a different animal.
Feel like you’d already know the answer to this.

 

[mrsloppyboo]

What’s your Age, stats, years of training, diet?

& you’re potentially about to add more & run 2150mgs or 2.1grams of gear, that’s wild. My body hurts just thinking about that.

31 years. 5’8 200lbs 10% bf with no water retention. 12 years training. (5 on AAS). Currently bulking

 

[Tbaz192]

wait for the smart guys to respond here, they’ll come in with more science.

At some point there’s only so much you can get from oils. Pinning more and more just means even more sides.

I mean I’ve run higher dose cycles didn’t notice much of a difference other than side effects and my lipids being hit even harder.

HGH / Insulin on top of a decent cycle will definitely put on some lbs.
I just mess with insulin or anything else. Too much shit to deal with. I’m also not trying to be an open bodybuilder at 6’3

 

[mrsloppyboo]

wait for the smart guys to respond here, they’ll come in with more science.

At some point there’s only so much you can get from oils. Pinning more and more just means even more sides.

I mean I’ve run higher dose cycles didn’t notice much of a difference other than side effects and my lipids being hit even harder.

HGH / Insulin on top of a decent cycle will definitely put on some lbs.
I just mess with insulin or anything else. Too much shit to deal with. I’m also not trying to be an open bodybuilder at 6’3

I want to get to open size lol. I’m not sure I’m big enough to be playing with insulin yet though, and in with just HGH mixed with AAS I don’t see much growth from HGH compared to just AAS. I’m sure it would be a lot more effective with insulin

 

[Slowww]

Is insulin more harmful than 800 more mgs of gear ?

 

[mrsloppyboo]

Is insulin more harmful than 800 more mgs of gear ?

Not sure if it would be more harmful I was just under the impression that it’s not smart to use it unless you’re already a mass monster

 

[egruberman]

Is insulin more harmful than 800 more mgs of gear ?

It depends on the individual.

 

[1Megaman]

31 years. 5’8 200lbs 10% bf with no water retention. 12 years training. (5 on AAS). Currently bulking

That’s a lot of gear for 5’8 200. I would think training and diet will have more effect than adding another 800mg of gear. I am 5’11 216lbs and 750 test and 400 Deca I can grow like a weed with enough food, sleep, and training. Do you have a coach?

 

[malfeasance]

200 pounds at 5'8" is already huge if you are a true 10%

Tom Platz was 5'8" and competed at anywhere from 198 pounds up to 220. In the off season he never went over 235. And this is Mr. Olympia stage, not entering his first amateur competition stage.

Have you competed yet?

If not, you are 31, so it is time to get on it.

Competing will also tell you what, if anything you need to improve. Winning is much more than just the weight on a scale.

31 years. 5’8 200lbs 10% bf with no water retention. 12 years training. (5 on AAS). Currently bulking

If you are gaining, you are gaining. It takes time. You have been at it 5 years on gear with 7 prior to that. You ought to have some good idea of where you are going to end up with the cycle you are on.

If you are growing, then stick with it.

If you have maxed out diet, and your training is intense, and you are not gaining on this off season as quickly as you would like, I would rather add testosterone to your cycle rather than tren.

Please go take a look at Mac11Wildcat's journal in the bodybuilding section. It is years worth of a log on what it took him to get there. I think you can get some very good ideas if you invest the time reading there.

Thread 'Daily Log to 2019 Show Season'

Oct 20, 2018

Hey guys,

Been here for about a week and have so far thoroughly enjoyed the forum.

Considering putting in the effort to keep a daily log here as I hit an offseason growth period and move in to show season in 2019 covering my diet, training, and gear.

This won’t be a how-to guide on how to compete; that’s impossible to write. I’m not a pro but I am competing with what i think, given my progress, is a reasonable goal of becoming one. My training/gear/diet are not by any means extreme, overly interesting, or devised by an evil genius. However, in the YouTube/social media era, I think...

• Mac11wildcat
• Replies: 2,979
• Forum: Bodybuilding Forum

• 

 

[Trenbolonetax]

I want to get to open size lol. I’m not sure I’m big enough to be playing with insulin yet though, and in with just HGH mixed with AAS I don’t see much growth from HGH compared to just AAS. I’m sure it would be a lot more effective with insulin

You won't really see a ton of additional growth from GH itself, but imo, it's mostly the synergy between it + ASS + insulin, and also driving IGF1 higher.

GH allows you to grow leaner which = more time spent in progressive phase.

Insulin allows you to push GH higher without BG issues and the combo = more IGF1.

A bit unproven, but then the hyperplasia from GH contributes as well.

Not sure about the "not big enough" to play with insulin yet. Chicken or the egg? Why not add more GH and consider insulin and leverage multiple angles instead of pulling on the same ones harder?

Just some food for thought. Intelligent insulin use can be very helpful especially combined with GH.

 

[rexy]

You won't really see a ton of additional growth from GH itself, but imo, it's mostly the synergy between it + ASS + insulin, and also driving IGF1 higher.

GH allows you to grow leaner which = more time spent in progressive phase.

Insulin allows you to push GH higher without BG issues and the combo = more IGF1.

A bit unproven, but then the hyperplasia from GH contributes as well.

Not sure about the "not big enough" to play with insulin yet. Chicken or the egg? Why not add more GH and consider insulin and leverage multiple angles instead of pulling on the same ones harder?

Just some food for thought. Intelligent insulin use can be very helpful especially combined with GH.

I think another way of looking at GH use (and insulin) is from the perspective of rate-limiters. Running AAS alone up to a point has diminishing returns and will hit some rate-limiter on how fast you can accrue. I don't know the details but I'm sure GH and insulin can only help in trying to raise that limiter through other mechanisms. I think that probably summarises what you're saying actually.

 

[PlanetFatness]

Think about this: on gear, you are growing at about the same rate that your nuts are dying.

Thank me later for saving your life.

 

[Trenbolonetax]

I think another way of looking at GH use (and insulin) is from the perspective of rate-limiters. Running AAS alone up to a point has diminishing returns and will hit some rate-limiter on how fast you can accrue. I don't know the details but I'm sure GH and insulin can only help in trying to raise that limiter through other mechanisms. I think that probably summarises what you're saying actually.

That’s a really good way to succinctly sum up what I was trying to communicate!

 

[readalot]

I think another way of looking at GH use (and insulin) is from the perspective of rate-limiters. Running AAS alone up to a point has diminishing returns and will hit some rate-limiter on how fast you can accrue. I don't know the details but I'm sure GH and insulin can only help in trying to raise that limiter through other mechanisms. I think that probably summarises what you're saying actually.

Fantastic summary!

Well done.

Simple examples:

M13Q10: Mechanisms and Multistep Reactions; Reaction Profiles; Rate Limiting Steps – Chem 103/104 Resource Book

wisc.pb.unizin.org

 

[egruberman]

Insulin allows you to push GH higher without BG issues and the combo = more IGF1.

BG issues with GH vary from person to person. My present understanding is that the benefits of insulin are in the ability to process more carbohydrate and thus more calories. The belief that it's for bigger people I think stems from the fact that bigger people need more calories to sustain or grow.

'Course this is all just theoretical to me. I've never had a problem growing... too little.

 

[Trenbolonetax]

BG issues with GH vary from person to person. My present understanding is that the benefits of insulin are in the ability to process more carbohydrate and thus more calories.

Tis true. Should’ve said GH + carbs & calories.

The believe that it's for bigger people I think stems from the fact that bigger people need more calories to sustain or grow.

I do think that’s where the belief comes from. I just don’t know why folks don’t leverage GH + insulin earlier instead of yanking harder and harder on AAS lever. Diminishing returns and all. Rather use a new pathway at a certain point.

'Course this is all just theoretical to me. I've never had a problem growing... too little.

Same boat as you lol. It’s my specialty.