Beginner HGH questions for 27 yo dude who decided to be more reasonable

[Klimmzugernie]

Hello

untinteresting for my questions but a small introduction why i decided to add HGH to my PIED routine. if you are not interested just skip it.
I am 37 with more than 7 years of steroid experiences. Best look was at 105kg and slightly below 10%BF. Did everything right, had several coaches.. bla bla bla but i recognized over the last two years how crazy i was and how big my AAS dosages are - sometimes over 2g per week. So in the end i become a little more reasonable for me and my body and recognized that i will never become as big as i would like to be. My latest blood lab was also not the best regarding blood lipids and slight out of range kidney function (yes i know creatinine and calculated filtration rate is not very meaningful for bodybuilders). So i went down to my TRT dose of 125mg e3d of testosterone enanthate. I got smaller but with better libido and stamina (although i alwas had an eye of all of my hormones like E2, prolactin, progesteron, SHBG, free and total T et cetera).
Yes i feel great but i miss a little bit size of my body. my weight is now 94kg and ~12% BF at 183cm. So now i would like to start an age conform PIED cylce which keep my libido and stamina as it is right now with more fullness and size...
I planned to use 125mg of testosterone e, 50mg of primobolan e3d, maybe switch to e2d. No AI because due to my experiences of this "small" testosterone dosage. in addition Primobolan does a good job for me to keep my E2 levels in range.
In top of that i would like to use 2IU of rHGH pre workout.

my questions are:
1) how many BAC or NaCl water i shall use for solve it in 10IU rHGH?
My plan was to use a insulin syringe with a volume of 50IU and shoot it two times into the rHGH vial. Which means 100IU of BAC in an insulin syringe solve 10IU of rHGH.
To get 2IU out of the rHGH vial i have to get 20IU of my insulin syringe thats it.
Do you think is is enough BAC water or shall i even use a little more or less?

2) in another topic @Type-IIx wrote some interesting studies and ideas which supported my own thoughts an research efforts.
My plan is to use 2IU of rHGH after my pre work out meal when blood sugar drops to fasted state again. Then pin 2IU wait 1-1.5 hours to go to train.
But this is very time consuming and i think if it might be better for me to pin 2IU before bed time with 250-500mg of metformin.
Does it make a difference regarding fat los? Just can imagine that pre work out gives me more fullness and it makes more sense to do a lifting session while me free fatty acids are on a high because of the HGH.

2a) i am not a diabetic but my HBa1C is in the high references and fasted glucose is always slightly over 100 (104, 102, 106 etc). OGTT says i am non diabetic. My interest is to reduce the risk of insulin resistance as good as i can but i really do not like metformin so much. First of all i have to see how big the influence of only 2IU is.
My question: when eating 50g of carbs (cream of rice) pre work out (and post work out) and use 5IU of humalog or novorapid (maybe a little less .. i have to try out) for and after work out, can i reduce the time of the HGH shot and the pre work out meal because the temporary insulin resistance of the HGH can be covered by the insulin?

sorry for my bad english i hope my text makes sense to you.

 

[Btcowboy]

Hello

untinteresting for my questions but a small introduction why i decided to add HGH to my PIED routine. if you are not interested just skip it.
I am 37 with more than 7 years of steroid experiences. Best look was at 105kg and slightly below 10%BF. Did everything right, had several coaches.. bla bla bla but i recognized over the last two years how crazy i was and how big my AAS dosages are - sometimes over 2g per week. So in the end i become a little more reasonable for me and my body and recognized that i will never become as big as i would like to be. My latest blood lab was also not the best regarding blood lipids and slight out of range kidney function (yes i know creatinine and calculated filtration rate is not very meaningful for bodybuilders). So i went down to my TRT dose of 125mg e3d of testosterone enanthate. I got smaller but with better libido and stamina (although i alwas had an eye of all of my hormones like E2, prolactin, progesteron, SHBG, free and total T et cetera).
Yes i feel great but i miss a little bit size of my body. my weight is now 94kg and ~12% BF at 183cm. So now i would like to start an age conform PIED cylce which keep my libido and stamina as it is right now with more fullness and size...
I planned to use 125mg of testosterone e, 50mg of primobolan e3d, maybe switch to e2d. No AI because due to my experiences of this "small" testosterone dosage. in addition Primobolan does a good job for me to keep my E2 levels in range.
In top of that i would like to use 2IU of rHGH pre workout.

my questions are:
1) how many BAC or NaCl water i shall use for solve it in 10IU rHGH?
My plan was to use a insulin syringe with a volume of 50IU and shoot it two times into the rHGH vial. Which means 100IU of BAC in an insulin syringe solve 10IU of rHGH.
To get 2IU out of the rHGH vial i have to get 20IU of my insulin syringe thats it.
Do you think is is enough BAC water or shall i even use a little more or less?

2) in another topic @Type-IIx wrote some interesting studies and ideas which supported my own thoughts an research efforts.
My plan is to use 2IU of rHGH after my pre work out meal when blood sugar drops to fasted state again. Then pin 2IU wait 1-1.5 hours to go to train.
But this is very time consuming and i think if it might be better for me to pin 2IU before bed time with 250-500mg of metformin.
Does it make a difference regarding fat los? Just can imagine that pre work out gives me more fullness and it makes more sense to do a lifting session while me free fatty acids are on a high because of the HGH.

2a) i am not a diabetic but my HBa1C is in the high references and fasted glucose is always slightly over 100 (104, 102, 106 etc). OGTT says i am non diabetic. My interest is to reduce the risk of insulin resistance as good as i can but i really do not like metformin so much. First of all i have to see how big the influence of only 2IU is.
My question: when eating 50g of carbs (cream of rice) pre work out (and post work out) and use 5IU of humalog or novorapid (maybe a little less .. i have to try out) for and after work out, can i reduce the time of the HGH shot and the pre work out meal because the temporary insulin resistance of the HGH can be covered by the insulin?

sorry for my bad english i hope my text makes sense to you.

I am no expert and am 3 months or so in on my first go round with GH.

If you got 10iu vials keep it simple.
1ml bac water to 10iu vial yeilds 1iu for 0.1ml on slin pin. If you want each injection more concentrated and less bac fill with 0.5ml bac and each 0.1ml pinned is 2iu.

I have been running 2iu upon waking and 1 to 1.5hrs later fasted cardio, then shortly there after eat my first meal. Then eat my last meal later in afternoon, wait 3hrs and take another 2iu and off to bed. After reading @Type-IIx thread on GH for lipolysis, if I understood correctly you get better lipolysis taking a single pre dose. That said today I started 4iu upon waking.

If I understand what he was getting at.

1. Single dose better for lipolysis and reduced chances of insulin resistance. Slightly lower IGF-1 numbers

2. Split dosages better for elevated IGF-1, increase in risk of insulin resistance, and slightly less effect on lipolysis.

I am not using metformin but am taking berberine as an alternative. That may help you with aversion to metformin.

 

[Klimmzugernie]

Thank you so far.


Ich meant 37 years old in the title

 

[Type-IIx]

I am no expert and am 3 months or so in on my first go round with GH.

If you got 10iu vials keep it simple.
1ml bac water to 10iu vial yeilds 1iu for 0.1ml on slin pin. If you want each injection more concentrated and less bac fill with 0.5ml bac and each 0.1ml pinned is 2iu.

I have been running 2iu upon waking and 1 to 1.5hrs later fasted cardio, then shortly there after eat my first meal. Then eat my last meal later in afternoon, wait 3hrs and take another 2iu and off to bed. After reading @Type-IIx thread on GH for lipolysis, if I understood correctly you get better lipolysis taking a single pre dose. That said today I started 4iu upon waking.

If I understand what he was getting at.

1. Single dose better for lipolysis and reduced chances of insulin resistance. Slightly lower IGF-1 numbers

2. Split dosages better for elevated IGF-1, increase in risk of insulin resistance, and slightly less effect on lipolysis.

I am not using metformin but am taking berberine as an alternative. That may help you with aversion to metformin.

I don't actually believe that split doses results in a greater GH response (increase in IGF-I in serum). Someone else thought that, but it's currently an unsupported claim.

 

[Clappincheeks]

I am no expert and am 3 months or so in on my first go round with GH.

If you got 10iu vials keep it simple.
1ml bac water to 10iu vial yeilds 1iu for 0.1ml on slin pin. If you want each injection more concentrated and less bac fill with 0.5ml bac and each 0.1ml pinned is 2iu.

I have been running 2iu upon waking and 1 to 1.5hrs later fasted cardio, then shortly there after eat my first meal. Then eat my last meal later in afternoon, wait 3hrs and take another 2iu and off to bed. After reading @Type-IIx thread on GH for lipolysis, if I understood correctly you get better lipolysis taking a single pre dose. That said today I started 4iu upon waking.

If I understand what he was getting at.

1. Single dose better for lipolysis and reduced chances of insulin resistance. Slightly lower IGF-1 numbers

2. Split dosages better for elevated IGF-1, increase in risk of insulin resistance, and slightly less effect on lipolysis.

I am not using metformin but am taking berberine as an alternative. That may help you with aversion to metformin.

How much Berberine are you taking?

 

[Btcowboy]

I don't actually believe that split doses results in a greater GH response (increase in IGF-I in serum). Someone else thought that, but it's currently an unsupported claim.

Ok thanks, but did I get the rest of the intent of the article?

 

[Btcowboy]

How much Berberine are you taking?

500 am and 500 pm

 

[Type-IIx]

Ok thanks, but did I get the rest of the intent of the article?

Yes!

 

[Deadp007]

500 am and 500 pm

whats the timing of the berberine? or does that even play a significant role in exogenous HGH?

 

[Btcowboy]

whats the timing of the berberine? or does that even play a significant role in exogenous HGH?

Honestly I am not 100% sure. I typically just take with my breakfast and supper

 

[B Ware]

I don't actually believe that split doses results in a greater GH response (increase in IGF-I in serum). Someone else thought that, but it's currently an unsupported claim.

@Mighty-mouse and myself shared labs proving that splitting your dose does indeed equal a higher igf1 reading. We both were on the same batch and brand of hgh and tested and shared our labs. It’s all in the testing section. I believe Mighty Mouse has proven it numerous times.

 

[T&H]

@Mighty-mouse and myself shared labs proving that splitting your dose does indeed equal a higher igf1 reading. We both were on the same batch and brand of hgh and tested and shared our labs. It’s all in the testing section. I believe Mighty Mouse has proven it numerous times.

I thought mighty mouse did better single, but searching his posts confirm your statement. He got a ton of bloods too.

I myself have around 10-12 test showing while on the same dose but split my igf-1 is 75- 100 points higher than single dosing in the am.

All blood pulled around the same time 9 am to 11am regardless the dose split.

I’m currently dosing 4 iu shoulder morning ED to compare.

The problem with clinical studies is that they are that... clinical studies.... they are not trying to optimize for BB. That’s where the bro code comes from.

How I run growth is morning only shot for fat loss

Morning late afternoon for higher igf and gaining.

How would you run it?

 

[B Ware]

I thought mighty mouse did better single, but searching his posts confirm your statement. He got a ton of bloods too.

I remember clearly that Mighty Mouse and I tested on a single dose and then again split dose and both scored higher on a split dose.

Mighty Mouse tested a lot. Not saying later he didn’t have a higher score but if he did it was probably not a controlled test like we did. Dude has some freak numbers. He responds better to rhgh better than anyone I’ve seen.

He hasn’t been around in a while but wish he would chime in to hear his thoughts

 

[B Ware]

@Tiredandhot this may be the confusion. In the same post he refers to the time frame of his highest single dose reading but later says splitting equaled a considerable higher igf1 reading.

 

[Type-IIx]

@Mighty-mouse and myself shared labs proving that splitting your dose does indeed equal a higher igf1 reading. We both were on the same batch and brand of hgh and tested and shared our labs. It’s all in the testing section. I believe Mighty Mouse has proven it numerous times.

What was the p-value and effect size? Did you and Might-mouse develop your sampling based on Cochran or Yamane? What were your methods? Was there sufficient washout and adaptation periods for each pretest/posttest? Was dose based on body mass (as subjects grew was dose kept constant or titrated?) Where did you source your rhGH from, was it Genotropin from Vetter Pharma-Fertigung GmbH & Co. KG Ravensburg, Germany or Vetter Pharma-Fertigung GmbH & Co. KG Langenargen, Germany? Does the assay used to test your sample indicate quantity and purity? that is, aside from confirming whether contents include 22-kDa GH, does it tell you precisely how much is in each vial?

I'm not even being a prick, a basic understanding of probability and statistics, research methods, would foreclose you ever even making this claim to begin with. A handful of bloodwork results from 2 people using black market product "from the same batch" can't be used to falsify the assumed null hypothesis to begin with. Not to mind show a significant between-group difference with a 99% confidence interval.

Shit, what was your null hypothesis?

 

[Type-IIx]

View attachment 164526

@Tiredandhot this may be the confusion. In the same post he refers to the time frame of his highest single dose reading but later says splitting equaled a considerable higher igf1 reading.

So there was no washout nor adaptation period. No pretest/posttest design.

What you're saying is that he started to split his dose after week 6 and his IGF-I continued to increase.

This is consistent with the fact that IGF-I continues to increase time- & dose- dependently over many weeks until it begins to taper and actually decrease around 6 months.

 

[Type-IIx]

Hello

untinteresting for my questions but a small introduction why i decided to add HGH to my PIED routine. if you are not interested just skip it.
I am 37 with more than 7 years of steroid experiences. Best look was at 105kg and slightly below 10%BF. Did everything right, had several coaches.. bla bla bla but i recognized over the last two years how crazy i was and how big my AAS dosages are - sometimes over 2g per week. So in the end i become a little more reasonable for me and my body and recognized that i will never become as big as i would like to be. My latest blood lab was also not the best regarding blood lipids and slight out of range kidney function (yes i know creatinine and calculated filtration rate is not very meaningful for bodybuilders). So i went down to my TRT dose of 125mg e3d of testosterone enanthate. I got smaller but with better libido and stamina (although i alwas had an eye of all of my hormones like E2, prolactin, progesteron, SHBG, free and total T et cetera).
Yes i feel great but i miss a little bit size of my body. my weight is now 94kg and ~12% BF at 183cm. So now i would like to start an age conform PIED cylce which keep my libido and stamina as it is right now with more fullness and size...
I planned to use 125mg of testosterone e, 50mg of primobolan e3d, maybe switch to e2d. No AI because due to my experiences of this "small" testosterone dosage. in addition Primobolan does a good job for me to keep my E2 levels in range.
In top of that i would like to use 2IU of rHGH pre workout.

my questions are:
1) how many BAC or NaCl water i shall use for solve it in 10IU rHGH?
My plan was to use a insulin syringe with a volume of 50IU and shoot it two times into the rHGH vial. Which means 100IU of BAC in an insulin syringe solve 10IU of rHGH.
To get 2IU out of the rHGH vial i have to get 20IU of my insulin syringe thats it.
Do you think is is enough BAC water or shall i even use a little more or less?

2) in another topic @Type-IIx wrote some interesting studies and ideas which supported my own thoughts an research efforts.
My plan is to use 2IU of rHGH after my pre work out meal when blood sugar drops to fasted state again. Then pin 2IU wait 1-1.5 hours to go to train.
But this is very time consuming and i think if it might be better for me to pin 2IU before bed time with 250-500mg of metformin.
Does it make a difference regarding fat los? Just can imagine that pre work out gives me more fullness and it makes more sense to do a lifting session while me free fatty acids are on a high because of the HGH.

2a) i am not a diabetic but my HBa1C is in the high references and fasted glucose is always slightly over 100 (104, 102, 106 etc). OGTT says i am non diabetic. My interest is to reduce the risk of insulin resistance as good as i can but i really do not like metformin so much. First of all i have to see how big the influence of only 2IU is.
My question: when eating 50g of carbs (cream of rice) pre work out (and post work out) and use 5IU of humalog or novorapid (maybe a little less .. i have to try out) for and after work out, can i reduce the time of the HGH shot and the pre work out meal because the temporary insulin resistance of the HGH can be covered by the insulin?

sorry for my bad english i hope my text makes sense to you.

Es gibt keine signifikante Wirkung von mehreren Dosierungen pro Tag auf IGF-I.

Ich genehmige Ihre Rimobolan und Testosteron, es ist genau (auf die Dosis) meine jüngsten Zyklus. Es ist fast entnervend, dass es identisch ist, und ja, es ermöglicht ganz effektiv die Beseitigung von jeder Notwendigkeit für einen Aromatasehemmer.

 

[B Ware]

What was the p-value and effect size? Did you and Might-mouse develop your sampling based on Cochran or Yamane? What were your methods? Was there sufficient washout and adaptation periods for each pretest/posttest? Was dose based on body mass (as subjects grew was dose kept constant or titrated?) Where did you source your rhGH from, was it Genotropin from Vetter Pharma-Fertigung GmbH & Co. KG Ravensburg, Germany or Vetter Pharma-Fertigung GmbH & Co. KG Langenargen, Germany? Does the assay used to test your sample indicate quantity and purity? that is, aside from confirming whether contents include 22-kDa GH, does it tell you precisely how much is in each vial?

I'm not even being a prick, a basic understanding of probability and statistics, research methods, would foreclose you ever even making this claim to begin with. A handful of bloodwork results from 2 people using black market product "from the same batch" can't be used to falsify the assumed null hypothesis to begin with. Not to mind show a significant between-group difference with a 99% confidence interval.

Shit, what was your null hypothesis?

You are making this complicated. It isn’t and shouldn’t be made out to be. If you pull labs while splitting your dose it will yield you a higher igf-1 score than if you would of just been taking a single dose. Many state they score higher when they split and again I know this to be true for myself.

So there was no washout nor adaptation period. No pretest/posttest design.

What you're saying is that he started to split his dose after week 6 and his IGF-I continued to increase.

This is consistent with the fact that IGF-I continues to increase time- & dose- dependently over many weeks until it begins to taper and actually decrease around 6 months.

I don’t believe this to be true either. I have pulled labs at 13 days, 3 weeks, 6 weeks, 3 months and at 7 months. My igf-1 barely fluctuated during the time frame of 3 weeks - 7 months. It does not continue to increase during that period and saying so is silly. What ever dose you are administering puts you where it puts you. For example you will never read 1iu = 100 igf-1 during the first 6 weeks but expect it to increase after that. Again, silly. If anything you should/may expect your igf-1 to decrease over taking it for months.

 

[hghlover]

What was the p-value and effect size? Did you and Might-mouse develop your sampling based on Cochran or Yamane? What were your methods? Was there sufficient washout and adaptation periods for each pretest/posttest? Was dose based on body mass (as subjects grew was dose kept constant or titrated?) Where did you source your rhGH from, was it Genotropin from Vetter Pharma-Fertigung GmbH & Co. KG Ravensburg, Germany or Vetter Pharma-Fertigung GmbH & Co. KG Langenargen, Germany? Does the assay used to test your sample indicate quantity and purity? that is, aside from confirming whether contents include 22-kDa GH, does it tell you precisely how much is in each vial?

I'm not even being a prick, a basic understanding of probability and statistics, research methods, would foreclose you ever even making this claim to begin with. A handful of bloodwork results from 2 people using black market product "from the same batch" can't be used to falsify the assumed null hypothesis to begin with. Not to mind show a significant between-group difference with a 99% confidence interval.

Shit, what was your null hypothesis?

You are being a little bit of a prick. No offense, my good sir. We're all just trying to slowly accumulate knowledge leading us further towards facts. Some of it hard data, some of it bro science/individual blood work. But if tons and tons of blood work points towards one thing, maybe approaching it with curiousity and openness is more suited than shooting it down with arguments of statistical errors etc

 

[Type-IIx]

You are being a little bit of a prick. No offense, my good sir. We're all just trying to slowly accumulate knowledge leading us further towards facts. Some of it hard data, some of it bro science/individual blood work. But if tons and tons of blood work points towards one thing, maybe approaching it with curiousity and openness is more suited than shooting it down with arguments of statistical errors etc

Frankly, these are not complicated probability and statistical concepts and are the basis for all the published literature in existence. Without these principles being applied to observations, you just get hocus pocus claims that do a disservice to all of us. I think this is incredibly important to understand: these bloodwork results do not support the claim that split dosing increases serum IGF-I more than a single bolus.