best 30g needles for subq injections?

[OilCarrier]

Hello,

Over the years I have experimented with various needle sizes for subq as well as shallow IM injections.

The smallest I have used is:
BD micro fine 29G 0.5 ml AND 1ml - 1/2″ (12,7 mm)
Opinion: I prefer the 1ml as those handle more volume easily.

The largest I have used is:
BD Plastipak Sub-Q 26G 1ml - 1/2″ (12,7 mm)
Opinion: I have used these for the longest time, but after a while I have developed scar tissue in some places. Perhaps this is mostly due to pinning too often in the same spot. (ventroglute shallow IM).

What I need help with:
In an effort to minimize further damage to tissue I would like to start using 30G needles for subq injections most of the time. I say most of the time, because I use a pharma test that uses castor oil, which is kind of thick. Therefore I imagine when I want to inject more volume and more frequently, I might get a lumpy butt some days when everything is subq and the lumps will need time to absorb. Unlike many UGL's that use carrier oils such as MCT or GSO which absorb much faster. With most pharma test these lumps can stick around quite a while.

I was inspired by user @Manzoitaly (grazie Manzo, per favore scrivere un DM a me) who recommended these Mesorelle 30G needle heads in another thread. However, these do not have a syringe attached like the BD microfine or plastipak series have.

Question 1: If I was to go with these mesorelle 30G needles, which syringes should I attach? ideally it would be 1 or 1.5 ml?
Question 2: Does anybody have an alternative suggestion?

thanks in advance!

 

[Sector]

Gear should be injected IM, using atleast a 1" needle, especially in the glutes, but works well for other sites too. 1/2" isn't enough

I think the problems you're experiencing are because you're pinning too shallow, or pinning sub-q, hence the lumps and irritation you're describing. You should also be rotating sites more frequently. Glutes, delts, and lats are super easy.

To answer your question though, I don't think the brand really matters much, and the volume of 1ml vs 1.5ml depends on how often you pin and the volume of gear being used.

 

[AlexDavis43]

Gear should be injected IM, using atleast a 1" needle, especially in the glutes, but works well for other sites too. 1/2" isn't enough

Some guys can hit shallow IM with 0.5" (me), but you may need up to 1.5" if you have a lot of body fat.

 

[Jabroni_Meathead]

I use Easytouch 30 gauge 1/2" from amazon for all my injections that include test cyp, npp, primo, and hcg.

 

[Sector]

Some guys can hit shallow IM with 0.5" (me), but you may need up to 1.5" if you have a lot of body fat.

Maybe If you're only pinning delts, but even then I'd still recommend 1" overall, regardless of being lean or not. More likely to run into issues pinning shallow than pinning at a modestly deep level (although I can hardly even call 1" glute/lat/quad injections that deep"

"
Absorption of medications injected into the subcutaneous tissue or muscle tissue is all influenced by the same factors. However, intramuscular injections are absorbed faster than subcutaneous injections because muscle tissue has a greater blood supply than the tissue just under the skin. Also, muscle tissue can hold a larger volume of medication than subcutaneous tissue. For example, you should not inject more than 1ml (100 units) of injectable medicine into the fat tissue because you will have a knot-like-ball for days at a time. In the end, the form of administration all depends on the base-substance of the medication (water or oil) to determine the speed of delivery. Here is what you need to know when injecting water base or oil base medications.

Adipose tissue "fat tissue" is hydrophobic, meaning it repels water or fails to mix with it. Water-based medications like peptides, HCG, growth hormone, and most injectable vitamins are administered into the fat for this reason. They get into the bloodstream faster and are more effective because it repels the water base. However, these medications could be injected intramuscular, but if the medication stings, it is due to either a low PH concentration or the medication is severely hypertonic.

Intramuscular tissue "muscle tissue" is hydrophilic, meaning it mixes or dissolves with water. Oil-based medications like injectable testosterone, amino acid formulas, and some injectable vitamins (B-complex & Vitamin D) are commonly injected into the muscle for this reason. Since they are oil-based, the muscle tissue rejects the oil, helping them get into the blood faster and effectively. These medications can also be administered into the fat, but as stated before, they might leave a knot in your fat or leave you with a stinging sensation for days. "

 

[VakarianSK]

If your lean enough then just pin with 30g 1/2in syringes. I pin everything IM (except lantus) using these from amazon.

Amazon.com

 

[Big_bowl0tren]

Hello,

Over the years I have experimented with various needle sizes for subq as well as shallow IM injections.

The smallest I have used is:
BD micro fine 29G 0.5 ml AND 1ml - 1/2″ (12,7 mm)
Opinion: I prefer the 1ml as those handle more volume easily.

The largest I have used is:
BD Plastipak Sub-Q 26G 1ml - 1/2″ (12,7 mm)
Opinion: I have used these for the longest time, but after a while I have developed scar tissue in some places. Perhaps this is mostly due to pinning too often in the same spot. (ventroglute shallow IM).

What I need help with:
In an effort to minimize further damage to tissue I would like to start using 30G needles for subq injections most of the time. I say most of the time, because I use a pharma test that uses castor oil, which is kind of thick. Therefore I imagine when I want to inject more volume and more frequently, I might get a lumpy butt some days when everything is subq and the lumps will need time to absorb. Unlike many UGL's that use carrier oils such as MCT or GSO which absorb much faster. With most pharma test these lumps can stick around quite a while.

I was inspired by user @Manzoitaly (grazie Manzo, per favore scrivere un DM a me) who recommended these Mesorelle 30G needle heads in another thread. However, these do not have a syringe attached like the BD microfine or plastipak series have.

Question 1: If I was to go with these mesorelle 30G needles, which syringes should I attach? ideally it would be 1 or 1.5 ml?
Question 2: Does anybody have an alternative suggestion?

thanks in advance!

Put your hand down your pants if you feel something hanging off you that’s called a dick. If you have a dick you should be doing IM. Now if theres nothing down there your okay administering subQ. Best of luck to you and your future drug administrations. I hope this helps. God bless

 

[Deskoze38192]

Some guys can hit shallow IM with 0.5" (me), but you may need up to 1.5" if you have a lot of body fat.

Just because you’re hitting muscle doesn’t mean it’s a good choice for IM. If you’re injecting a small volume of oil it can be okay but it’s not deep enough for a high volume of oil

 

[OilCarrier]

Gear should be injected IM, using atleast a 1" needle, especially in the glutes, but works well for other sites too. 1/2" isn't enough

I think the problems you're experiencing are because you're pinning too shallow, or pinning sub-q, hence the lumps and irritation you're describing. You should also be rotating sites more frequently. Glutes, delts, and lats are super easy.

To answer your question though, I don't think the brand really matters much, and the volume of 1ml vs 1.5ml depends on how often you pin and the volume of gear being used.

Thanks for the suggestion. When i pin shallow IM, i don't have lumps, but i want to go subq, mostly that is. (so some will still be IM)

I'm aware that pinning subq causes lumps, i'm ok with those. Also I have rotated my injection sites, to delts and lats, but at some point might have drifted away from that and injected too often in the ventroglute area. Now one side is definitely scarred up (ripples//feels/sounds like a paper bag when sticking a needle in).

Some guys can hit shallow IM with 0.5" (me), but you may need up to 1.5" if you have a lot of body fat.

yes, i agree. I am very lean and this is what i like to do. Shallow IM does not give me lumps, it did give me scar tissue though.

I use Easytouch 30 gauge 1/2" from amazon for all my injections that include test cyp, npp, primo, and hcg.

thank you! Ordered!

Maybe If you're only pinning delts, but even then I'd still recommend 1" overall, regardless of being lean or not. More likely to run into issues pinning shallow than pinning at a modestly deep level (although I can hardly even call 1" glute/lat/quad injections that deep"

"
Absorption of medications injected into the subcutaneous tissue or muscle tissue is all influenced by the same factors. However, intramuscular injections are absorbed faster than subcutaneous injections because muscle tissue has a greater blood supply than the tissue just under the skin. Also, muscle tissue can hold a larger volume of medication than subcutaneous tissue. For example, you should not inject more than 1ml (100 units) of injectable medicine into the fat tissue because you will have a knot-like-ball for days at a time. In the end, the form of administration all depends on the base-substance of the medication (water or oil) to determine the speed of delivery. Here is what you need to know when injecting water base or oil base medications.

Adipose tissue "fat tissue" is hydrophobic, meaning it repels water or fails to mix with it. Water-based medications like peptides, HCG, growth hormone, and most injectable vitamins are administered into the fat for this reason. They get into the bloodstream faster and are more effective because it repels the water base. However, these medications could be injected intramuscular, but if the medication stings, it is due to either a low PH concentration or the medication is severely hypertonic.

Intramuscular tissue "muscle tissue" is hydrophilic, meaning it mixes or dissolves with water. Oil-based medications like injectable testosterone, amino acid formulas, and some injectable vitamins (B-complex & Vitamin D) are commonly injected into the muscle for this reason. Since they are oil-based, the muscle tissue rejects the oil, helping them get into the blood faster and effectively. These medications can also be administered into the fat, but as stated before, they might leave a knot in your fat or leave you with a stinging sensation for days. "

Thank you for the educational post. I was indeed aware of this, but still want to make a conscious decision to pin subq. It's possible.

If your lean enough then just pin with 30g 1/2in syringes. I pin everything IM (except lantus) using these from amazon.

Amazon.com

ty, another good suggestion! good to hear you do this as well.

Put your hand down your pants if you feel something hanging off you that’s called a dick. If you have a dick you should be doing IM. Now if theres nothing down there your okay administering subQ. Best of luck to you and your future drug administrations. I hope this helps. God bless

thank you for the kind wishes. I am typing this with one hand.

Just because you’re hitting muscle doesn’t mean it’s a good choice for IM. If you’re injecting a small volume of oil it can be okay but it’s not deep enough for a high volume of oil

I have pinned shallow IM for 3 years now, before 1 year subq. I definitely like shallow IM better, it causes me no lumps even when using a 1/2" needle. However it does cause me scar tissue, which is why i want to have the extra option of going subq most of the time, but not foregoing shallow IM completely.

 

[Deskoze38192]

I have pinned shallow IM for 3 years now, before 1 year subq. I definitely like shallow IM better, it causes me no lumps even when using a 1/2" needle. However it does cause me scar tissue, which is why i want to have the extra option of going subq most of the time, but not foregoing shallow IM completely.

You’re having issues, you made a post about it. The answer is deeper, not a smaller gauge. You just said that shallow IM is working better than SubQ. Guess what, deeper injection works better than that. Zero issues lol. Also you need a better rotation as was mentioned previously.
You seem to have very limited knowledge to start with because you don’t know about luer lock or luer slip syringes that we all use for injecting gear. Since you don’t know about that this raises a much bigger concern. How are you loading your syringe?
1 mL luer lock is the answer to the question in your first post but you’re making some errors that a couple of us have noticed so we are trying to help you.
If you want to stay with 1/2” for some reason 27g 1/2” is much more common and makes more sense then 26 g that you use.
Insulin syringes come in 30 g 1/2” but they are for water based injections not oil and back loading them opens a sterile environment and risks infection, which is a much bigger deal than a little scar tissue.
This is why we use a larger gauge for drawing and a smaller gauge for injecting. This cannot be done with the syringes you have been using because the needles cannot be removed.
The needles you mentioned are only 4 mm
Is this the same needle you were thinking of using?

 

[Eddie.]

I use BD microfine 29G 0,5 inch for sq injections, test E in castor oil on glutes and HCG in belly. I bought some 27g slin pins too but i used some and didn't like it because they have detachable needles and hold some oil in between while the BD's keeps almost zero oil. With a little heat it passes fine, no problem..but the oil volume i use is small and so far i never had a lump or inflammation or anything. In about a month i ll switch the pharma test and use a UGL test E and primo, again sq. If i deal with any problems then i'll switch to IM.

 

[OilCarrier]

You’re having issues, you made a post about it. The answer is deeper, not a smaller gauge. You just said that shallow IM is working better than SubQ. Guess what, deeper injection works better than that. Zero issues lol. Also you need a better rotation as was mentioned previously.
You seem to have very limited knowledge to start with because you don’t know about luer lock or luer slip syringes that we all use for injecting gear. Since you don’t know about that this raises a much bigger concern. How are you loading your syringe?
1 mL luer lock is the answer to the question in your first post but you’re making some errors that a couple of us have noticed so we are trying to help you.
If you want to stay with 1/2” for some reason 27g 1/2” is much more common and makes more sense then 26 g that you use.
Insulin syringes come in 30 g 1/2” but they are for water based injections not oil and back loading them opens a sterile environment and risks infection, which is a much bigger deal than a little scar tissue.
This is why we use a larger gauge for drawing and a smaller gauge for injecting. This cannot be done with the syringes you have been using because the needles cannot be removed.
The needles you mentioned are only 4 mm
Is this the same needle you were thinking of using?

Thank you for giving advice and trying to correct what you perceive as an error. There are a lot of assumptions in your post however. What made you think I do not know about luer lock syringes? My question about which syringes would be the best to attach?

I actually possess those luer lock/ luer slip syringes, I also have 3/4" as well as 1" needle heads in 26 and 27G. I just do not prefer them. I don't like using them as they waste oil every injection, the BD microfines as Eddie also mentions do not waste this oil, it's kind of a lot if you pin daily. I prefer the BD insulin needles or similar, such as the easy touch 30G. I figured perhaps there would be better syringes available that do not leave so much oil in there after pinning.

At no point in time did i refer to 4mm needles, to be clear. so if you are thinking of those, those are not what i mean.
i meant these:

Aghi Mesorelle 30G (Ø 0,30mm) x 25 mm – 100 Pezzi – Seltec Medical

seltecmedical.it

How I fill my needles
both with the 26G insulin needle as well as the 29G insulin needle I can draw the castor oil just fine. It's not as fast as I would have liked, but i am patient.

You say 'that we all use', yet there are multiple posters in this thread alone stating the opposite. I am / was aware of the counterarguments, that doesn't mean i made errors. I deliberately am looking to inject subq as an add on to prevent tissue damage that I would otherwise had gotten from shallow IM.

The argument has been made that regular IM leads to less issues, I will keep that in mind for the future and am thankful for that. However, my thread was started to find out the best needles for subq injections.

I use BD microfine 29G 0,5 inch for sq injections, test E in castor oil on glutes and HCG in belly. I bought some 27g slin pins too but i used some and didn't like it because they have detachable needles and hold some oil in between while the BD's keeps almost zero oil. With a little heat it passes fine, no problem..but the oil volume i use is small and so far i never had a lump or inflammation or anything. In about a month i ll switch the pharma test and use a UGL test E and primo, again sq. If i deal with any problems then i'll switch to IM.

Thanks, good to hear, i am completely the same! i hate that those syringes leave so much oil in there. I agree, injecting IM is superior. I just don't like having scar tissue. So where possible I will try to mitigate by going subq.

 

[Burly]

Hello,

Over the years I have experimented with various needle sizes for subq as well as shallow IM injections.

The smallest I have used is:
BD micro fine 29G 0.5 ml AND 1ml - 1/2″ (12,7 mm)
Opinion: I prefer the 1ml as those handle more volume easily.

The largest I have used is:
BD Plastipak Sub-Q 26G 1ml - 1/2″ (12,7 mm)
Opinion: I have used these for the longest time, but after a while I have developed scar tissue in some places. Perhaps this is mostly due to pinning too often in the same spot. (ventroglute shallow IM).

What I need help with:
In an effort to minimize further damage to tissue I would like to start using 30G needles for subq injections most of the time. I say most of the time, because I use a pharma test that uses castor oil, which is kind of thick. Therefore I imagine when I want to inject more volume and more frequently, I might get a lumpy butt some days when everything is subq and the lumps will need time to absorb. Unlike many UGL's that use carrier oils such as MCT or GSO which absorb much faster. With most pharma test these lumps can stick around quite a while.

I was inspired by user @Manzoitaly (grazie Manzo, per favore scrivere un DM a me) who recommended these Mesorelle 30G needle heads in another thread. However, these do not have a syringe attached like the BD microfine or plastipak series have.

Question 1: If I was to go with these mesorelle 30G needles, which syringes should I attach? ideally it would be 1 or 1.5 ml?
Question 2: Does anybody have an alternative suggestion?

thanks in advance!

I use 1ml BD plastipak syringe, and BD 30g needle
(heat-up your gear before for a smooth inject)

 

[buck]

For sub-q for all my injections water or oil based is with a 29 ga .5 preferably BD insulin syringe. I find BD's quality to be better than most. .3 can be used if one is very lean. Done thousands thi way with no complaints. Thighs are a go to for me as they plenty of room to shoot with ease. I find less irritation in the thighs. And location really doesn't matter much as once it is injected it will end up throughout the body.

 

[Deskoze38192]

Thank you for giving advice and trying to correct what you perceive as an error. There are a lot of assumptions in your post however. What made you think I do not know about luer lock syringes? My question about which syringes would be the best to attach?

I actually possess those luer lock/ luer slip syringes, I also have 3/4" as well as 1" needle heads in 26 and 27G. I just do not prefer them. I don't like using them as they waste oil every injection, the BD microfines as Eddie also mentions do not waste this oil, it's kind of a lot if you pin daily. I prefer the BD insulin needles or similar, such as the easy touch 30G. I figured perhaps there would be better syringes available that do not leave so much oil in there after pinning.

At no point in time did i refer to 4mm needles, to be clear. so if you are thinking of those, those are not what i mean.
i meant these:

Aghi Mesorelle 30G (Ø 0,30mm) x 25 mm – 100 Pezzi – Seltec Medical

seltecmedical.it

How I fill my needles
both with the 26G insulin needle as well as the 29G insulin needle I can draw the castor oil just fine. It's not as fast as I would have liked, but i am patient.

You say 'that we all use', yet there are multiple posters in this thread alone stating the opposite. I am / was aware of the counterarguments, that doesn't mean i made errors. I deliberately am looking to inject subq as an add on to prevent tissue damage that I would otherwise had gotten from shallow IM.

The argument has been made that regular IM leads to less issues, I will keep that in mind for the future and am thankful for that. However, my thread was started to find out the best needles for subq injections.


Thanks, good to hear, i am completely the same! i hate that those syringes leave so much oil in there. I agree, injecting IM is superior. I just don't like having scar tissue. So where possible I will try to mitigate by going subq.

Thanks for clarifying. Yes I was asking because when I searched all that I found was 4mm, hence the question.
You can just use a 1 mL luer lock or luer slip with those needles. I must of misunderstood your question asking what syringes would work with those.
More sites in your rotation will help with scar tissue.
Yeah I don’t consider any loss in the syringes since I brew my own gear its negligible. But I do know that some people are concerned about that
Hope you get it all figured out

 

[OilCarrier]

Thanks for clarifying. Yes I was asking because when I searched all that I found was 4mm, hence the question.
You can just use a 1 mL luer lock or luer slip with those needles. I must of misunderstood your question asking what syringes would work with those.
More sites in your rotation will help with scar tissue.
Yeah I don’t consider any loss in the syringes since I brew my own gear its negligible. But I do know that some people are concerned about that
Hope you get it all figured out

Great! Homebrewing is something I extremely look forward to doing. Not sure if I can make it happen here in Europe, source wise I am not that far developed yet.

Would you also say going deeper with a thin needle prevents build up of scar tissue more than shallow IM? I am curious, as deeper obviously also means more tissue penetrated and damaged on small movements.

 

[OilCarrier]

I use 1ml BD plastipak syringe, and BD 30g needle
(heat-up your gear before for a smooth inject)

Thanks for sharing! I think this is the preferred solution for subQ if residual oil is no issue, or do these not leave a lot behind?

For sub-q for all my injections water or oil based is with a 29 ga .5 preferably BD insulin syringe. I find BD's quality to be better than most. .3 can be used if one is very lean. Done thousands thi way with no complaints. Thighs are a go to for me as they plenty of room to shoot with ease. I find less irritation in the thighs. And location really doesn't matter much as once it is injected it will end up throughout the body.

I agree on that! BD is the best i've seen.
outer thighs that is? It's where my scar tissue is formed unfortunately.

 

[buck]

Thanks for sharing! I think this is the preferred solution for subQ if residual oil is no issue, or do these not leave a lot behind?



I agree on that! BD is the best i've seen.
outer thighs that is? It's where my scar tissue is formed unfortunately.

As we are talking sub-q scar tissue in the muscle is not an issue . And i don't have any noticeable amount in the skin especially from such a small gauge When doing sub-q you can shoot anywhere on the body you want it is just skin and fat as long as you don't jab the muscle. Usually i do top ant out thighs as is is easy

 

[Deskoze38192]

Great! Homebrewing is something I extremely look forward to doing. Not sure if I can make it happen here in Europe, source wise I am not that far developed yet.

Would you also say going deeper with a thin needle prevents build up of scar tissue more than shallow IM? I am curious, as deeper obviously also means more tissue penetrated and damaged on small movements.

No I wouldn’t say that. I agree that more tissue penetrated means more tissue damaged.
More injection sites in your rotation will help.
Pecs, lats, traps, quads are all good.

 

[OilCarrier]

As we are talking sub-q scar tissue in the muscle is not an issue . And i don't have any noticeable amount in the skin especially from such a small gauge When doing sub-q you can shoot anywhere on the body you want it is just skin and fat as long as you don't jab the muscle. Usually i do top ant out thighs as is is easy

ok cool! The scar tissue i have from pinning shallow IM caused parts of my ventroglute to have that cracking sound and i started getting bursitis-like pain (feels like upper IT band pain) after squats since I have it. I do not have a lot of fat in my outer thighs though, do you pinch it together before pinning?

No I wouldn’t say that. I agree that more tissue penetrated means more tissue damaged.
More injection sites in your rotation will help.
Pecs, lats, traps, quads are all good.

ah alright. thanks makes sense. Indeed my lack of rotation for a relatively small period led me to have scar tissue. The main culprit also was the 26G, with a higher injection frequency.