MESO-Rx Exclusive Bill Roberts 2on 4 off cycle theory

The 2 on 4 off idea I believe is very good to me
Weeks 1 & 2:
100mg each of test prop, mast prop, tren ace per 2 days
(frontload day 1, last injection day 11) (+ dianabol 30mg / d week 1-2 and 20mg for weeks 3-5)
arimidex as necessary

Week 3:
hgh 5iu / d 5 days on and 2 days off for weeks 3-6
300mg of clomid day 1, 50 mg days 2-7

Week 4:
Continue 50mg of clomid per day if necessary

Week 6:
Clean

My goal is after a few such cycles (4-6) to have some muscular pounds .. (12-18 ..)

Does my template make sense to you? Is my drug choice optimal considering my goals?

Thanks for your time
 
Apologies, I think what happened is that I read your post, got distracted and for some reason on returning opened another window, thought I'd replied but didn't.

I would adjust it in only this regard. No Dianabol in weeks 3 to 5. I used to advocate it years back and programs can work this way, true, but over time lab results from those using the low dose morning-only Dianabol in recovery showed slower recovery of natural T. Despite the fact that when a cycle hadn't been done previously, such use is low-suppressive.

Apparently, it's more of an issue when coming out of suppression.
 
If planning on doing a number of cycles back to back, I'd make it two weeks or three weeks of Clomid use, on the principle of having some weeks of higher-than-usual LH production to counterbalance the two weeks of very low LH production.

Absolutely you should get good gains with good nutrition and training hard! Your dosages are sufficient. I'd consider increasing the Dianabol to 50 mg/day, but good results are certainly readily attainable just as you've written it.
 
Hey, Bill. You first published the 2on/4off quick cycle study in 1999; any changes you would make now that a decade has passed? Any lessons learned that you would add, or does it continue to stand on its own? Thanks for the time.
 
Today I prefer an antiaromatase to SERM (Nolvadex or Clomid) use during the cycle as an antiestrogen.

I don't favor using low dose orals in the off weeks anymore. This was found to slow recovery somewhat.

That's about it!
 
Today I prefer an antiaromatase to SERM (Nolvadex or Clomid) use during the cycle as an antiestrogen.

I don't favor using low dose orals in the off weeks anymore. This was found to slow recovery somewhat.

That's about it!

^^^^^^^^^^

I would second that. Any use of an androgen while off will negate HPTA return. Also, as I have said ad nauseum, without labs showing HPTA function, all bets are off.
 
Hey guys, I'm thinking about doing my first cycle in 12 years.

I found the 2 weeker from Bill Roberts.

I was thinking of doing Prop only since that's what I have right now. I figure I can get some decent results since it's my first in a long time. I'd be happy w/ keeping 5-7lbs.

34 y/o
218lbs
5'9''
17% bf

I was thinking of doing:

Day 1 Prop 200mg (can I get away w/ 200 or do I have to bump to 300?)
Day 2-12 Prop 150 EOD
Day 1-14 Aromasin 12.5 ED
Day 2, 6, 10, 14 HCG 250 IU

PCT 2 Weeks stating Day 15
Nolva 20/20
Clomid 50/25

Does this make sense? Would I waste any of my 1st timer clean receptors if I did this? Thanks for any info...
 
There isn't anything special about the receptors for the first cycle: there doesn't have to be a fear of ruining a golden opportunity. The opportunity will always be there.

The principal reasons that the increase in mass, compared to right before the cycle, is typically so much better for a first cycle is simply that the starting point is lower in mass.

But, back to your cycle:

For a 2 week cycle to be very effective, the dosage level needs I think to be at least 1000 mg/week, although in the special case of using trenbolone acetate and Dianabol it can be as low as 700 mg total (50 mg/day of each.)

I would revise the cycle to:

Day 1: TP 450 mg
Days 2-10 150 mg/day

OR:

Day 1: TP 600 mg
Days 3, 5, 7, and 9: 300 mg

As for HCG, for 2 week cycles I've never developed a system (meaning, used it myself many times and saw what it did for others many times). It really is not necessary for 2 on / 4 off. I would save it for a later occasion. Where it would have more use is with extended cycles of 2 on / 2 off or especially 2 on / 1 off.

I would have enough Clomid or Nolvadex on hand to be able to use it during the cycle in case nipple sensitivity appeared.

If combining Clomid and Nolvadex for PCT, my preferred method is:

Nolvadex: Day 1 60 mg in divided doses (for example 20 mg three times). After this, either 10 mg/day or 20 mg every other day.

Clomid: Day 1: 150 mg in divided doses. After this, either 25 mg/day or 50 mg every other day.
 
The Man, The Myth, The Legend Himself.. ha. Thank you for the reply. I do have enough clomid and nolva for whatever I need. When would you start it and at what dose ideally?


Nolvadex: Day 1 60 mg in divided doses (for example 20 mg three times). After this, either 10 mg/day or 20 mg every other day.

Clomid: Day 1: 150 mg in divided doses. After this, either 25 mg/day or 50 mg every other day.


Day 1 of the cycle start with:
Clomid 150 mg
Nolva 60 mg

Day 2 start:
Clomid week 1 - 25/week 2 - 25/week 3 - 25/week 4 - 25
Nolva week 1 - 20/week 2 - 20/week 3 - 20/week 4 - 20

Also, I'm kind of worried about the high dosage.. In your experience, do you think this or 150mg EOD of prop for 8 weeks is better for your body. Just asking;)

Also, for 450mg of Prop, would I use 2 sites for that? Seems like a lot to inject in to 1 site at 100mg/ml.. Thanks for any help. I really appreciate it..
 
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Ah, that was not clear on the Clomid and Nolvadex. I apologize. I was meaning Day 1 of PCT, but there was absolutely no way to tell that.

When using an AI, 1000 mg/week of testosterone really is not an extreme dose.

But if you don't want to go that high, then I'd recommend 700 mg/week but for 8 weeks. 150 mg every other day is doable but is at the low end. It will work for some high responders but for most will not be anything to write home about.

It would be hard or impossible to quantitate or prove hardness on the body. The 2 on / 4 off at this dosage level seems found by all who have done it to seem a very reasonable choice with regards to health, including where (as should preferably be done) blood panels are taken. But, that isn't to say that seeming to all users to be perfectly fine doesn't mean that there might not be an undetected adverse effect.

As guesswork, my expectation is that long term cumulative adverse effect is probably related to total gram dosage of steroids used per year, and percentage of weeks per year that lab values are abnormal.

A gram per week only 1/3 of the weeks per year is pretty conservative, I believe. But let's say if wanting to meet the prioritiesof a life-extension, very "health-food" kind of guy who still wanted SOME benefit from anabolic steroids, I would recommend instead light supplementation (so to speak) with Masteron or Primobolan.
 
What is the rationale behind a 2 week cycle? That you would be less suppressed than an 8 week cycle? Is there even any data that says anything less than 8 weeks is less suppressive? I can't even understand how 2 weeks could make any sort of legitimate gains in mass. It would probably be all water weight which would disappear upon stopping. Even 500mg of T at 8 weeks won't drastically change someone. My understanding is that it takes multiple cycles to get a true change in body composition.
 
Well, there's an article on the site with measured data and a very large number of people who have done it with results different than you're saying.

But as to "even 500 mg of T," if you mean weekly, then yes, a dosage such as 500 mg/week of testosterone for two weeks would give a near-worthless two-week cycle little or no better than you are saying.
 
I've been reading these forums and various articles written by Bill for some time and have decided to do a cycle - my first. I would appreciate any opinions on it.

23yrs old
5'10"
~195lbs
~ 12% bf

By the time I start the cycle I hope to be nearer the 10%bf mark.

concept is 3 mass phases followed by at least one cutting/hardening phase.
Prop during each phase.
Prop only (2on/20ff) - weeks 1-4
prop + dbol (20n/2off) - 30-40mg / day - weeks 5-8
prop + dbol (2on/2off) - 30-40mg / day - weeks 9-12
prop + var (2on/4off) - 60mg / day - weeks 13-16

prop is front loaded at 300mg then 100mg ED. stop on day 11 and commence pct on day 15 with 100mg Nolva front loaded then 20mg/day until day 28.
Then start prop + dbol. dbol taken until day before pct.
etc

Letro will be taken throughout ~ 0.75mg/day
 
I just from want to know whether this is an acceptable cycle, or whether it needs tweaking.
I read a post from Bill about needing HCG on extended cycles of 2on2off, is it necessary for this one?

--
concept is 3 mass phases followed by at least one cutting/hardening phase.
Prop during each phase.
Prop only (2on/20ff) - weeks 1-4
prop + dbol (20n/2off) - 30-40mg / day - weeks 5-8
prop + dbol (2on/2off) - 30-40mg / day - weeks 9-12
prop + var (2on/4off) - 60mg / day - weeks 13-16

prop is front loaded at 300mg then 100mg ED. stop on day 11 and commence pct on day 15 with 100mg Nolva front loaded then 20mg/day until day 28.
Then start prop + dbol. dbol taken until day before pct.
etc

Letro will be taken throughout ~ 0.75mg/day
 
No-one has any opinions or advice on this cycle?

2 on/ 2off's are kind of new as far as I can tell. I certainly havent ever tried it, nor do I know anyone who has. I think the idea is very interesting though. I really dont have any clue as to the most appropriate way to run the HCG...if you run it at all. I ran my first 2 cycles without it, and I made good gains and even managed to recover well and hold on to most of them from the 2nd cycle. So I woldnt sweat too much about it one way or the other, but thats just me.

I just wanted to chime in and let you know that I personally dont have a clue WTF to tell you man, but I hope you keep a log and let us know how it goes. I'm thinking about another cycle myself, and I'm going to be doing some research on this type of cycle when I have some more time.

I will say that running prop and var together (as long as your diet and training are in check) will have you looking like a marble statue...awesome combo.

Good luck, I'll be watching for someone to chime in on this thread myself.
 
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