Bitcoin Skeptics

Discussion in 'Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency' started by Millard Baker, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. Sk8man101

    Sk8man101 Member

    To me bitcoin is the biggest Ponzi scheme since Ponzi himself.

    But you can still make money so it's pretty badass.
     
  2. Millard Baker

    Millard Baker Member

    Grant Spencer, the acting Governor of New Zealand's Reserve Bank, says Bitcoin is not a useful currency but a "speculative instrument like gold". (December 13, 2017, TVNZ 1's Q+A programme):

    "It looks remarkably like a bubble forming to me - we've seen them in the past, over the centuries ... and this appears to be a bit of a classic case.

    "With a bubble, you never know how far it's going to go before it comes down...

    "I think the cryptocurrencies are a real and serious proposition for the future and I think they are part of the future - but not the sort that we see in Bitcoin. Bitcoin to me is very much like gold - it's mined, it has a fixed quantity and the price is very volatile.

    "A cryptocurrency that has a more stable value will be the cryptocurrency that is more valuable for the future - to be a useful currency it has to be stable value in terms of facilitating payments, as opposed to just a speculative instrument like gold or like Bitcoin."

    Source: NZ Reserve Bank governor thinks Bitcoin is a bubble - but does see a future for digital currencies
     
  3. Morefyah

    Morefyah Member

    It’s not even close to a Ponzi scheme.
    Just out of curiosity what made you come up with that comparison?
     
  4. Oldman.

    Oldman. Member

    On the opposite side of this subject I would like to thank Max Keizer and Stacy Herbert, from the Keizer report. I watched his show back when the 2008 collapse was going strong and crypto was new. He is the reason I got into it.
     
  5. Swiper

    Swiper Member

     
  6. Sk8man101

    Sk8man101 Member

    Cause like a Ponzi scheme it is backed by nothing of value besides the fact that people want it.

    It sort of resembles a Ponzi scheme in which everyone who is selling their bitcoin at the time is the Ponzi.
     
  7. Oldman.

    Oldman. Member

    Perhaps you should read the defenition of Ponzi scheme.

    This does not fit the pattern one bit. If you don’t know how crypto works yes it seems that way but once you learn how it works and what gives it value you will realize it’s a free market curancy with a cap. There is a difference to the scientifically minded. There is no difference to those who refuse to learn, and those are the same ones who did not invest and are mad they missed the buss.

    My family made out good. However if they had listened to me we would be filthy rich.
     
  8. 23inch

    23inch Member

    Who are you to tell anyone to go learn anything? You made a stupid ass comment the other day stating that the current BTC fees are high because we were paying for protection. Seriously kid, wtf?

    I agree with @Sk8man101 to some extend, Bitcoin has no value, the developers managed to kill any value it had by treating it as the digital gold rather than what it was originally meant for, a currency.

    2018 will be the raise of altcoins.
     
  9. Oldman.

    Oldman. Member

    It’s not always easy to type what you want to say but what ever. I am no kid so stop the passive aggressive crap. I won’t bite.
    How did coinbase fight that IRS disclosure order? Right they used unicorn blood not the money made from the fees.

    I am invested in many cryptos so let altcoins explode. Either way I win.
     
  10. 23inch

    23inch Member

    Well, working side to side with LE has its benefits, I guess.
    Besides, coinbase already makes a shitload of money on top of newbies, if they were to intentionally increase fees people would start looking elsewhere.

    Here, let me break it down for you on why fees are high:
    there is one block mined every ten minutes on average. Every block has a size of 1MB maximum of transaction data that it can hold. So not every transaction that gets broadcasted to the network can be added to the next block for confirmation. When you broadcast a transaction, it gets added to the memory pool (mem pool) which is a pool of unconfirmed transactions, which at the time of writing is around 100MB. Since there are 100MB worth of transactions that have not been confirmed, but only 1MB can be added to the next block, a bidding war gets started. Miners add the transactions of those who pay the highest fees to the next block for confirmation, while all of the other transactions are left sitting in the mempool waiting to be confirmed
     
    Millard Baker and Oldman. like this.
  11. They don't understand that technology changes everything. I feel bad for the banks tho, they going down like Walmart when Amazon cut their sales on half
     
  12. janoshik

    janoshik Member

    And not a single mention of spam attacks and failure to implement optimizations from the side of big businesses and software providers.

    You do truly sound like an expert.
     
  13. Oldman.

    Oldman. Member

    Thanks that’s the most understandable explanation I have heard. It makes sense. Supply and demand at work.
    It also explains why the higher fee transfers go through so fast.
     
    23inch likes this.
  14. 23inch

    23inch Member

    Who's talking about that? Are you always this high?

    In case you missed, I was simply explaining why the fees are high, I'm not giving a lecture on what can and can't be done to solve it, not when the developers don't give a shit about it themselves.

    Now go back to under the rock you crawled from.
     
  15. janoshik

    janoshik Member

    So you suggest that high fees are not caused nor contributed to by spam attacks and failure to implement segwit and proper fee calculation algorithms, Mr. Expert? :)
     
  16. 23inch

    23inch Member

    Of course it contributes.
    Perhaps you should read my other posts on the subject before getting all butthurt for no reason.
    Like I said, developers don't really care about bitcoin being used as a currency, that is why Bitcoin Cash was created.
     
  17. janoshik

    janoshik Member

    I read most of your posts and it's clearly obvious you lack both education and common sense.

    1. Bitcoin Cash was created because of political ambitions of a malicious player and massive campaigns focused on influencing the uneducated. Bcash lacks ANY technological improvements and none are in sight. Ever. It will die.

    2. Developers do care a lot, but they realize you can't have all in one package. Which stupid people do not understand. That's why multilayer solutions are preferred.

    3. I've also noticed that you are a strong proponent of Monero saying it'll take Bitcoins place - am I correct? @Millard Baker might be correct about it having prominent place on darknet markets, but if you believe Monero is capable of taking bitcoin's place, you are literally retarded.

    It is indeed a wonderful project I support. However, IT DOES NOT SCALE. At least not yet and relatively to bitcoin. It's transactions are ENORMOUS and the sheer volume would shut down nodes one by one.

    And I'm not really experienced in the way Monero calculates fees, but these are the current data:

    upload_2017-12-15_16-21-42.png

    Now, let's assume Monero has the same market cap as Bitcoin right now - I do realize this is not economically realistic way to make a comparation, but it kinda puts things into perspective:

    upload_2017-12-15_16-23-31.png


    Nuff said.
     
  18. 23inch

    23inch Member

    Geez, it's astonishing and laughable how much shit one person can implement in one post.

    Don't worry, I'll get back to you when I have the time.
     
  19. janoshik

    janoshik Member

    Are you going to lecture me about the great technological innovations of bcash or about the fact that monero transactions are not 13 kB? :D
     
  20. Michael Scally MD

    Michael Scally MD Doctor of Medicine