Bruce Kneller arrested - could Anthony Roberts be next?

[SWALE]

It's funny to me how guys on the Boards are always going off on this "not all-knowing" thing, and belittling those of us who have spent 12 years of our lives and a million dollars lost wages to get our jobs, just to work 80 hours per week thereafter.

Any wonder you guys have problems with physicians? LOL.

 

[Millard]

It's funny to me how guys on the Boards are always going off on this "not all-knowing" thing, and belittling those of us who have spent 12 years of our lives and a million dollars lost wages to get our jobs, just to work 80 hours per week thereafter.

Don't take it personally. I think you've proven you know a thing or two about androgens. It's the other 99% of doctors that still think tamoxifen is an AAS, etc. that we have a problem with.

 

[SWALE]

Just providing a little different perspective, Bro.

It's probably true that AAS users commonly antagonize physicians. Theirs is then a self-fulfilling prophecy that things will not turn out as well as they could. This "dragging down to earth" baloney is a pretty good example. Just a little food for thought...

 

[Bigkarch]

re

edit

 

[SWALE]

Good point, Karch.

Dark, YOUR post is the one that "smells [of] idiocy". In case you haven't noticed, AAS use IS "rampant".

Just a little perspective...

 

[Deacon]

well soon AAS is going to be old news - Meth is taking over big time - faster than they can even think of stopping it - THAT is the next American epidemic - so soon the pressure will be off steroids and back to the killers where it belongs

 

[thick]

that would already be the case if it wasnt for the damn pro sports and Barry Bonds etc breaking and getting ready to break more of the records. WE still have a couple of years in the spotlight and than they can switch to meth as more and more toothless wonders are robbing and stealing to get their fix

well soon AAS is going to be old news - Meth is taking over big time - faster than they can even think of stopping it - THAT is the next American epidemic - so soon the pressure will be off steroids and back to the killers where it belongs

 

[Millard]

well soon AAS is going to be old news - Meth is taking over big time - faster than they can even think of stopping it - THAT is the next American epidemic - so soon the pressure will be off steroids and back to the killers where it belongs

It would be nice if the policies and actions of politicians focused on the most important issues facing their given jurisdiciton. But unfortunately, I think they regularly create distractions to avoid discussing the more pressing issues.

IMO, AAS is one such distraction.

 

[Millard]

Dark, YOUR post is the one that "smells [of] idiocy". In case you haven't noticed, AAS use IS "rampant".

He wasn't calling the idea of rampant AAS use idiotic. He was calling the reasoning and logic used to by the physicians to conclude that AAS was rampant idiotic. And he is right. Such logic is unfamiliar to me and others who have a dislike for the "smells [of] idiocy".

For instance, one of my favorite recent quotes that highlights this is from an article by two MDs: "The abuse of AAS is still rampant today, as evidenced by its mention in the 2004 State of the Union address by President Bush, the recent disqualification of 20 international weightlifters before the Olympic games in Athens, and the suspension of several Olympic athletes in Athens for "doping."

Just stop and smell the idiocy for a moment. The evidence of rampant AAS abuse is the president's SOTU address and 20 some athletes getting caught using. This was in a regional medical journal that other MDs read for "education" from two MDs who are fairly well-published in the AAS literature.

In the 2006 Winter Olympic games in Torino, only 1 athlete was suspended for doping. And the President didn't even mention steroids in the 2006 SOTU address.

So, I guess AAS use is no longer rampant, huh? Problem solved.

 

[Joffa]

Guys, just keep this board going and keep educating. I'm a future physician, and you better believe I will standup against all the hype. I'm meso educated first, medical school second As AAS use has become more common among the bodybuilding/PL communities, I know the future generations of docs will include more athletes who have used AAS. Just letting you know not to hate all docs; not everything you say falls on deaf ears. There are those of us who listen and will take our stance in the future when the time comes.

~Joffa

 

[The Dark]

It's funny to me how guys on the Boards are always going off on this "not all-knowing" thing, and belittling those of us who have spent 12 years of our lives and a million dollars lost wages to get our jobs, just to work 80 hours per week thereafter.

Any wonder you guys have problems with physicians? LOL.

You're seemingly far too used to arguing to read objectively. Been on the defensive (or offensive) too much lately about this Roberts character?

I was not criticizing physicians; I was actually criticizing those who think all physicians should know the facts about AAS; those who expect them to be all-knowing in an era of specialization. You know this is not possible. In general, the preponderance of physicians deserve the benefit of the doubt because they cannot know everything and AAS are not their specialty. It is not belittling, it is simply fact – no one knows everything nor can they stay abreast of developments in all areas. With the rapid progress in science these days, if one does not focus on an area they should not be expected to be expert in it. But then they should not deign to speak on it.

I do not know you and you certainly do not know me - but I made that same kind of sacrifice to get my Ph.D and I work those same hours. That was our choice - it does not give us special dispensation. I know that not all of my colleagues know everything – we are specialists in our different areas. I read the steroid literature (the parts that relate to my specialty) and popular press regularly and see many examples of horrendous misstatements and misrepresentations and shitty science from both MDs and PhDs who would do all of us and science a service if they stopped talking and publishing and misinforming the public and their non-specialist colleagues. That should not offend you - you should cheer it.

I have no problem with physicians - they are just people like everyone else, which means they can be wrong, even after all those years, dollars and work.

 

[The Dark]

the dark has one post....not sure what you want bro....but you dont know shit about aas...sorry..you say members of your own profession...no....dont think you are a doc, endo or even a dentist....sorry..

Funny you would say that, bro, since, in another post where you listed the authors at MESO to make a point about who writes here, you proudly included my "real" name. I knew MESO way back when, have been a member for a long time, and have been reading the boards and writing here for years.

Damn funny that!

 

[The Dark]

Good point, Karch.

Dark, YOUR post is the one that "smells [of] idiocy". In case you haven't noticed, AAS use IS "rampant".

Just a little perspective...

Ah...the mob gathers, but no one stops to read. You all need to stop looking for an enemy (since I am surely not one) and pay attention!

The quote said "abuse"...not use. The idiocy is what is cited as evidence. I am certain you can get this if you try.

Damn, admin, I have to admit, I have not dropped in for a while, but I expected more than this from a MESO board.

 

[Millard]

Damn, admin, I have to admit, I have not dropped in for a while, but I expected more than this from a MESO board.

I'm clueless here as to exactly what elicited the responses you received.

 

[SWALE]

Dark--You do not write like anyone with any kind of education. And your childish insults do not make your arguments for you either.

It's not my fault you cannot comprehend how your "dragging down" language would be offensive to someone who has sacrificed as much as physicians have--and do. So "dragging down a physician" is somehow supposed to insult AAS users? Is that your logic? And you claim you have a PhD?

Mentioning Roberts says much about your knowledge base, and your reasoning skills. You lowered yourself by posting such an inane comment. If you want that nitwit purposefully damaging the health and well-being of the Bro's, then just say so. If you are such an expert, please tell us where you find fault in his writing. If not, then perhaps you might consider not trying to insult someone who is here to try to minimize the fodder the press has to work with in their "roid rage" campaign.

Do you also wish to make the point that physiciqans are not belittled on these Boards frequently? Can you understand how this easily becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy? Maybe you should give this a little more thought before writing about it again. Especially in such a derogatory manner.

So you specifically object to the phrase "steroid abuse". Well, now, that is certainly a slippery slope.

Well then, exactly what is it you do which requires 80 hour work weeks every week, being on call every other night and working two straight days--on a regular basis--without a break, being constantly pinched between patient care and insurance companies and lawyers? Add in how insurance companies love to withold payments for 6 or 9 months (while staff still needs to be paid). And 12 years and a million dollars expenses and lost wages along the way to get the job. If your job is lke that, I would sincerely like to hear what it is.

I stand by my comments--each and every one.

Admin--So you do not think AAS use is "rampant". Where on earth have you been? How many men do you think use steroids in America alone? How many teenagers do you think use them? No offense, but you do have kind of a strange view of reality sometimes.

And we all know you don't get busted for using steroids--you get busted for not masking them.

 

[Millard]

It's not my fault you cannot comprehend how your "dragging down" language would be offensive to someone who has sacrificed as much as physicians have--and do. So "dragging down a physician" is somehow supposed to insult AAS users? Is that your logic?

Bro, I honestly need you to help me with my reasoning skills too.

I can't understand how this would be insulting to any professional. This is what "The Dark" said that you find so insulting:

I think we also need to drag the physicians back to earth - they are not all-knowing.

It seems perfectly reasonable to me that we should not deify physicians. They are not gods. They are not omniscient.

You don't really believe physicians have homes in the heavens, know everything, and should not ever be questioned. Do you?

 

[SWALE]

Tell me if you have ever read me making such a statement.

BTW, if I did, would I have spent more hours answering medical questions for free than any other doctor in the history of the Internet--and on AAS-based Boards?

Now, if someone said you needed to be "dragged back down", or whatever, would you find that to be complimentary?

Honestly, you guys sound like you are suffering some kind of inferiority complex.

Finally, it has nothing to do with me being insulted. But the language you guys use is indicative of why it is you have so much trouble with doctors. THAT is the point.

 

[Millard]

Admin--So you do not think AAS use is "rampant". Where on earth have you been? How many men do you think use steroids in America alone? How many teenagers do you think use them? No offense, but you do have kind of a strange view of reality sometimes.

Oh come on!! Please! How could you miss the biting sarcasm just jumping off the page!!

Here's what I said:

In the 2006 Winter Olympic games in Torino, only 1 athlete was suspended for doping. And the President didn't even mention steroids in the 2006 SOTU address.

So, I guess AAS use is no longer rampant, huh? Problem solved.

This was a sarcastic comment using the same logic that the doctors used to prove that steroid use was rampant.

I turned it around to should how the use of their idiotic logic would "prove" that the rampant steroid use was no longer a problem!!

Here is the logic used by the physicians:

"The abuse of AAS is still rampant today, as evidenced by its mention in the 2004 State of the Union address by President Bush, the recent disqualification of 20 international weightlifters before the Olympic games in Athens, and the suspension of several Olympic athletes in Athens for "doping."

See?

 

[Millard]

Tell me if you have ever read me making such a statement.

BTW, if I did, would I have spent more hours answering medical questions for free than any other doctor in the history of the Internet--and on AAS-based Boards?

Now, if someone said you needed to be "dragged back down", or whatever, would you find that to be complimentary?

Honestly, you guys sound like you are suffering some kind of inferiority complex.

This isn't about YOU. No one is talking about YOU making such statements. No one is criticizing YOUR expertise on AAS.

Yes, we are offering critiques of the medical profession of which you are a part of. But from everything I know about you - you have dedicated a good portion of you professional career to educating other physicians about AAS. So I find it difficult to understand why you would need to educate these doctors if their knowledge of AAS and TRT wasn't lacking.

 

[Millard]

Honestly, you guys sound like you are suffering some kind of inferiority complex.

Hey, I'll leave this one alone.

Anyone reading this can make their own conclusions