Cat Café EU & US domestic

[Nidus]

That aged well...

Achtung, ganz dumme Frage:
How should anybody proof, that you ordered? Like if you singed for the parcel okay, but even then.

Imagine I ordered from Cat just for fun and sent it to a friend house or anyone I know the adress of. So only because they see your name and adress in the data they took after busting Liska is no prrof that those people ordered, right?

Tracking ID or parcel going to your house. Every parcel gets scanned and measured in weight, pictures taken and during investigations like this they also look at where it has been dropped off. So if you receive a package from place A dropped off by a person directly affiliated to the PEDs it gives them reason enough to dig deeper.

For court, all they need is you ordering this parcel, accepting the parcel or proof that you paid or communications between you and the vendor i.e. email.

LE also looks into you even if you just had a shipping label, they follow any trace.
And in the letter they are then able to give you exact timestamps as to when, where and what including pictures of the parcel at a sorting station, sometimes even an xray (DHL does this).

Every 2-3 months are huge wave of new letters is send out, german telegram groups and forums are full of it. Just this month i saw about 13 people posting about getting a letter.

 

[HB_22]

Imagine I ordered from Cat just for fun and sent it to a friend house or anyone I know the adress of. So only because they see your name and adress in the data they took after busting Liska is no prrof that those people ordered, right?

Correct. But by accepting the parcel its like confirming you were the one who ordered it, at least that's how law enforcment is looking at it.

 

[M. Tugboat]

1940s drugs were easily had.. just FYI

metaphor

1. an expression, often found in literature, that describes a person or object…

dictionary.cambridge.org

 

[M. Tugboat]

Yes, they will ask and if you refuse, they'll just get a warrant. Same as with the house search. My case wasn’t related to Liska, but an earlier bust.

While they searched the house, I was held in jail. They let me go that evening since they didn’t find anything. No idea what happens if they do.

They took all the computers and even tried to take my Xbox, but my dad convinced them it was just for gaming. You can’t hide anything so don't try. Tey searched through everything: mattresses, behind wardrobes, knocked on things for fake walls, went through my car, went to the garage box, etc...

They found €400, which was my dad’s, but treated it like a huge bust. He had to explain where the money came from etc...

This was years ago, and honestly, it left me with some PTSD. Thankfully, I’ve since moved back to Poland and don’t have to worry about shit like this anymore.

No wonder it gave you some kind of PTSD, that whole ordeal sounds stressful as hell

Fucking bastards

 

[SwolieGuacamole]

It's scary how stupid you are

Imagine that fuck face lol

 

[Sprayfart]

Tracking ID or parcel going to your house. Every parcel gets scanned and measured in weight, pictures taken and during investigations like this they also look at where it has been dropped off. So if you receive a package from place A dropped off by a person directly affiliated to the PEDs it gives them reason enough to dig deeper.

For court, all they need is you ordering this parcel, accepting the parcel or proof that you paid or communications between you and the vendor i.e. email.

LE also looks into you even if you just had a shipping label, they follow any trace.
And in the letter they are then able to give you exact timestamps as to when, where and what including pictures of the parcel at a sorting station, sometimes even an xray (DHL does this).

Every 2-3 months are huge wave of new letters is send out, german telegram groups and forums are full of it. Just this month i saw about 13 people posting about getting a letter.

I am not doubting that they can track, that that parcel was sent to my house. I was talking about how to proof, that I ordered that parcel.
There is no proof, that I ordered that, just a random ass proton-mail adress ordering something and paying via crypto that went through a crypto tumbler and thats it. no way to proof, that that was me. I can order stuff to random adresses and those parcels get thrown there on the doorway, but does that mean the person living in that adress is guilty of ordering? I dont think so.

 

[Sprayfart]

Correct. But by accepting the parcel its like confirming you were the one who ordered it, at least that's how law enforcment is looking at it.

what exactly does "accepting" mean? Liska never sent parcels where I needed to sign anything. Every parcel was just left at my front door.

 

[Nidus]

what exactly does "accepting" mean? Liska never sent parcels where I needed to sign anything. Every parcel was just left at my front door.

Accepting is seen as you picking up the parcel, signing, opening up the door for the post man, physically taking it in, holding.

I am not doubting that they can track, that that parcel was sent to my house. I was talking about how to proof, that I ordered that parcel.
There is no proof, that I ordered that, just a random ass proton-mail adress ordering something and paying via crypto that went through a crypto tumbler and thats it. no way to proof, that that was me. I can order stuff to random adresses and those parcels get thrown there on the doorway, but does that mean the person living in that adress is guilty of ordering? I dont think so.

Your address at which you received it, any traces of payment or email conversation in which you agree to a purchase is enough. One of those 3 and you can get a letter. Not saying you will but its most likely as they go after literally anyone, even if it was just a bottle of test.

 

[amazonas]

To the German guys, I know it's too late now, but for the next orders... why don't you get your packages sent to a domestic parcel shop and get a fake ID card for 200-300 euros?

Most shops I've gotten my packages from don't even bother with ID, or just look at the ID for a split second, then hand you the package. That's how I have always done it, and I was never scared about a seizure or a love letter.

Maybe I'm very paranoid and cautious, but I never understood using your real name and address for steroids, especially in such a strict country.

 

[Nidus]

To the German guys, I know it's too late now, but for the next orders... why don't you get your packages sent to a domestic parcel shop and get a fake ID card for 200-300 euros?

Most shops I've gotten my packages from don't even bother with ID, or just look at the ID for a split second, then hand you the package. That's how I have always done it, and I was never scared about a seizure or a love letter.

Maybe I'm very paranoid and cautious, but I never understood using your real name and address for steroids, especially in such a strict country.

Fake ID's are very expensive last i checked it was 300-500€, not many people go this route esp. when the order itself is below that value. Dead drops are the usual go-to, the issue is that when there is a long term investigation going on (in Liskas case they monitoring parcel traffic for half a year) they also check the addresses if person there actually lives, if not it creates more suspicion and they might even observe that drop.

I mean in most cases it works but if it doesnt, you get an additional charge for faking official documents and forging stuff which can be harsher than the actual charge for purchasing PEDs

 

[amazonas]

Fake ID's are very expensive last i checked it was 300-500€, not many people go this route esp. when the order itself is below that value. Dead drops are the usual go-to, the issue is that when there is a long term investigation going on (in Liskas case they monitoring parcel traffic for half a year) they also check the addresses if person there actually lives, if not it creates more suspicion and they might even observe that drop.

I mean in most cases it works but if it doesnt, you get an additional charge for faking official documents and forging stuff which can be harsher than the actual charge for purchasing PEDs

I get what you are saying, but at the same time, don't give police so much credit, man. If your name and address don't exist, there is 0% chance they can find out who you are. Unless they go to the parcel shop and ask for the CCTV footage to see who went to grab the package, and even then how can they prove who you are in a big city full of people? There's no way they have these resources or will even bother with such a small thing.

Also, OPSEC is priceless. Once you get caught, you wish you had spent that extra money on the fake ID.

 

[accidentaljedi173]

I get what you are saying, but at the same time, don't give police so much credit, man. If your name and address don't exist, there is 0% chance they can find out who you are. Unless they go to the parcel shop and ask for the CCTV footage to see who went to grab the package, and even then how can they prove who you are in a big city full of people? There's no way they have these resources or will even bother with such a small thing.

Also, OPSEC is priceless. Once you get caught, you wish you had spent that extra money on the fake ID.

To think they wouldn't get the camera footage is silly. I'm in the US, but, even for something like credit card fraud here, they will look at each purchase and get you on camera buying the stuff. Maybe, it's a bit different in this case due differing countries, and investigation. But, I would surely assume they aren't above obtaining camera footage.

 

[Nidus]

To think they wouldn't get the camera footage is silly. I'm in the US, but, even for something like credit card fraud here, they will look at each purchase and get you on camera buying the stuff. Maybe, it's a bit different in this case due differing countries, and investigation. But, I would surely assume they aren't above obtaining camera footage.

Very good point!
Partnered stores as in partnered with X parcel delivery are required to have CCTV and record packages sent/picked up even. So for getting the footage they dont even need to go there in person most times and can just request it via the shipping service and their partnered vendor/parcel shop as its a contractual obligation to protect themselves against theft, fraud and other things (Insurance for an example).

At least for the majority that is true, i have a neighbor who runs one for DPD, Hermes, DHL and all 3 require him to have CCTV covering the check-out area, entrance and the scanning & pick up area. That data is usually stored up to 2-3 months if i remember it right.

So once parcel movements are being monitored its safe to assume that the parcel company is fully involved and CCTV stuff and many other things shared right away.

I could imagine that most parcel services will do it on their own as they do not want any legal trouble going through corporate lawyer stuff or any negative news about them.

And if LE wants to screw you over, you're fucked anyways cause they will dig DEEP, especially when its a young and motivated one who is yet to climb up the ranks. For them, stuff like this is like a competition. Not saying they are all black sheep but yeah, there are many like that among them.

 

[amazonas]

You guys do your thing, im just sharing my experience on how i was never caught in Germany throughout the years of ordering shit online.

If a bike thief wants to steal your bike, he will do it no matter what, unless you have a strong ass lock on, then he might say fuck it and move on to the easier targets.

Same applies here, if you are handing in your address and full name just like that, you are doing all the work for them lol

 

[Nidus]

You guys do your thing, im just sharing my experience on how i was never caught in Germany throughout the years of ordering shit online.

If a bike thief wants to steal your bike, he will do it no matter what, unless you have a strong ass lock on, then he might say fuck it and move on to the easier targets.

Same applies here, if you are handing in your address and full name just like that, you are doing all the work for them lol

I mean, thats really the basic stuff isn't it?

 

[amazonas]

I mean, thats really the basic stuff isn't it?

Plausible deniability can be used if you're caught on CCTV with nothing else. If you are not in their criminal database, they will have to search a city of a million people to find you and also prove that it's 100% you. That's a lot of effort.

But if your name and address are right there on the package, all they have to do is knock on your door and enter your mom's basement where you live.

 

[accidentaljedi173]

Plausible deniability can be used if you're caught on CCTV with nothing else. If you are not in their criminal database, they will have to search a city of a million people to find you and also prove that it's 100% you. That's a lot of effort.

But if your name and address are right there on the package, all they have to do is knock on your door and enter your mom's basement where you live.

Genuinely, if they are already suspecting you, then they know what you look like. So unless you have a disguise on every time you pick something up, then searching millions of people isn't even a concern. They now have you and your fake name from just footage with a time stamp.

 

[amazonas]

Okay boys just dont buy drugs online, its risky for you

 

[Fenro]

You guys do your thing, im just sharing my experience on how i was never caught in Germany throughout the years of ordering shit online.

I mean most people aren't getting caught. It's always a few unlucky ones. I would guess people receive 1000s of packages with illegal items in Germany every day.

I like the fake ID idea. But it also has a few disadvantages. You are always ordering to the same name. If the ID somehow gets burned, you could get in trouble the next time you are trying to use it.
For example the vendor gets busted. They look up your name and the person doesn't exist. They have access to all the parcel data. Next time a parcel is adressed to the fake name they could be waiting for you. There are other ways like the parcel shop employee could report you.
The probability of this happening? Very low. Same as getting caught by receiving the package at your address.

Some people with fake DHL packstations got also caught. Police was waiting for them.

 

[eddie_charged]

That aged well...

Achtung, ganz dumme Frage:
How should anybody proof, that you ordered? Like if you singed for the parcel okay, but even then.

Imagine I ordered from Cat just for fun and sent it to a friend house or anyone I know the adress of. So only because they see your name and adress in the data they took after busting Liska is no prrof that those people ordered, right?

Usually you deny everything and ask to see what document they hold against you. Most often than not they have nothing but something that is addressed to you (not a proof a purchase) It's the prosecutors that is sending the letters, not the police

In Germany there are lawyers who specifically deal with this Anti-Doping Law, which is a joke to be honest cause all this law is catching is low-level gym goers. They barely busted any high profile Olympians... but hey, gotta show the number right?

I can recommend: Sebastian Brill as the lawyer in Germany

So glad I left Germany already, mostly because Germans are generally too conservative and complacence to be a tech-leading company, and then there's this AntiDoping law