Clenbuterol and Nebivolol - okay to mix?

[Jbagel132]

So I watched this video by Dave Palumbo:


View: https://youtu.be/mFw4FcCt_Eo


Not sure if I’m understanding this correctly, are you not supposed to take Nebivolol while on clen because the clen will be negated? What about telmisartan?

 

[Inspired]

I don't like propranolol and clenbuterol/salbutamol taken together. I think it causes asthmatic reactions.

 

[Rido]

If anything clean raises heart rate and BP. Why even mess with clen? Junk fat burner that doesn’t do anything diet can’t accomplish.

It was a shotgun to fat loss that was so much more than just raising hr and bp.

But you are right. Diet is number one

 

[Inspired]

OK. New here but not to the game. I have read extensively about beta 1 blockers and Clen. I use Atenolol and Telsm to control hypertension. I have heard the hearsay, opinions, etc.

I have a cut coming up in April/May and already have purchased the clen (25mcg tabs). Reading here and from some of the online info, that nebivolol is better than atenolol in regards to being a more selective beta 1 blocker (although atenolol claims to be 100% selective).

I have already tried it out for 5 days and I split the 25mcg tab in half for the first day. Felt a little strange. No racing heart beat but light headed.
-Second day. same- half tab
-Third day half tab in the morning and afternoon the second half to complete the 25mcg dose. Felt a little light headed for an hour
-Fourth day took 25mcg and then another second half a tab. Light headed and my diastolic BP was getting low. Like almost down to 60.
-Fifth day I did the same and my diastolic BP went under 60 which I know is not cool. I was 111/57. Never has my BP been that low.

Anyway, I would like to hear some real life cases of clen working or not working with selective beta 1 blockers. I believe that my electrolytes may have been imbalanced but would like to hear from the crew here what may have been causing the low BP and how to counter correct for my cutting phase in April/May

Kind of a late reply, but I think your problem is that you are using Atenolol. I couldn't tolerate Atenolol, even in the tiniest dosages, because it usually made me feel like my heart wasn't beating. I never combined it with clen but I wouldn't do it. I have combined salbutamol and propranolol together before and that was a big mistake, and my airway had a reaction. I could see where Atenolol combined with clen would make you feel very weird.

 

[Jbagel132]

Kind of a late reply, but I think your problem is that you are using Atenolol. I couldn't tolerate Atenolol, even in the tiniest dosages, because it usually made me feel like my heart wasn't beating. I never combined it with clen but I wouldn't do it. I have combined salbutamol and propranolol together before and that was a big mistake, and my airway had a reaction. I could see where Atenolol combined with clen would make you feel very weird.

Vigorous Steve on YouTube claims that Nebivolol reduces efficacy of Clen because it lowers heart rate.

 

[Inspired]

Vigorous Steve on YouTube claims that Nebivolol reduces efficacy of Clen because it lowers heart rate.

If it reduces efficacy, then by how much? 5%? 10%? 20%? 50%? And assuming Nebivolol does reduce efficacy of clen, it's probably better to have reduced efficacy than an overtressed/exploading heart. Did he have another suggestion, for those who want to regulate blood pressure and heart rate, while utilizing the fat burning power of clen?

It sounds like Vigorous Steve doesn't understand this issue or maybe he's just trying to make click bait videos. I've watched some of his videos and I can't say I'm impressed by his understandings, but I'm open to having my mind changed.

 

[Jbagel132]

If it reduces efficacy, then by how much? 5%? 10%? 20%? 50%? And assuming Nebivolol does reduce efficacy of clen, it's probably better to have reduced efficacy than an overtressed/exploading heart. Did he have another suggestion, for those who want to regulate blood pressure and heart rate, while utilizing the fat burning power of clen?

It sounds like Vigorous Steve doesn't understand this issue or maybe he's just trying to make click bait videos. I've watched some of his videos and I can't say I'm impressed by his understandings, but I'm open to having my mind changed.

Well @Type-IIx mentioned awhile back in this thread that it doesn’t reduce efficacy, but the vigorous Steve video had been made since then. I agree with what you said here though.

I have stopped taking the nebivolol. I only take 26 1/3 mg per day telmisartan. I am also taking 120mcg/day Clen and my RHR is in the 60s-80s with a 113/73 average BP.

 

[psauce]

It sounds like Vigorous Steve doesn't understand this issue or maybe he's just trying to make click bait videos. I've watched some of his videos and I can't say I'm impressed by his understandings, but I'm open to having my mind changed.

He is right in principle, but I don’t know the size of the effect.

Cardiac muscle is somewhat famously metabolically flexible, in that it can derive energy from fatty acids and central metabolites without any real lag time in expressing enzymes. Contrast that to most tissues, which tend to be best at oxidizing one substrate and take some time to adapt to another. This is the reason for the “carb flu” when going into ketosis… the body is all geared up to burn blood sugar, but even when ketone bodies are everywhere, it takes some time to express the enzymatic machinery to use them efficiently. Because the heart (and some parts of the brain) can’t really slack off, they operate a bit differently — they seem to prefer fatty acids, but can swap over to carbohydrate immediately.

The idea with beta blockers and clen is fairly simple. Cardiac tissue can chew through fatty acids, and if it’s going faster it will consume more. By reducing heart rate (and BP, to a degree), the heart does less work and so burns fewer calories from free fatty acids.

The question is how large that effect is. I would be surprised if it was as much as 10 additional kcal/hour.

 

[Jbagel132]

He is right in principle, but I don’t know the size of the effect.

Cardiac muscle is somewhat famously metabolically flexible, in that it can derive energy from fatty acids and central metabolites without any real lag time in expressing enzymes. Contrast that to most tissues, which tend to be best at oxidizing one substrate and take some time to adapt to another. This is the reason for the “carb flu” when going into ketosis… the body is all geared up to burn blood sugar, but even when ketone bodies are everywhere, it takes some time to express the enzymatic machinery to use them efficiently. Because the heart (and some parts of the brain) can’t really slack off, they operate a bit differently — they seem to prefer fatty acids, but can swap over to carbohydrate immediately.

The idea with beta blockers and clen is fairly simple. Cardiac tissue can chew through fatty acids, and if it’s going faster it will consume more. By reducing heart rate (and BP, to a degree), the heart does less work and so burns fewer calories from free fatty acids.

The question is how large that effect is. I would be surprised if it was as much as 10 additional kcal/hour.

There must be another mechanism besides heart rate that Clen increases lipolysis with.

 

[Type-IIx]

He is right in principle, but I don’t know the size of the effect.

Cardiac muscle is somewhat famously metabolically flexible, in that it can derive energy from fatty acids and central metabolites without any real lag time in expressing enzymes. Contrast that to most tissues, which tend to be best at oxidizing one substrate and take some time to adapt to another. This is the reason for the “carb flu” when going into ketosis… the body is all geared up to burn blood sugar, but even when ketone bodies are everywhere, it takes some time to express the enzymatic machinery to use them efficiently. Because the heart (and some parts of the brain) can’t really slack off, they operate a bit differently — they seem to prefer fatty acids, but can swap over to carbohydrate immediately.

The idea with beta blockers and clen is fairly simple. Cardiac tissue can chew through fatty acids, and if it’s going faster it will consume more. By reducing heart rate (and BP, to a degree), the heart does less work and so burns fewer calories from free fatty acids.

The question is how large that effect is. I would be surprised if it was as much as 10 additional kcal/hour.

If you're unfamiliar with him, some relevant background is that VigorousSteve snorts oxytocin preworkout (need that bonding instinct for the weights that day, bro!)

This isn't a matter of being right in principle (principles are fundamental); it's a matter of the very opposite of a principle: idiotic, myopic, irrelevant shit that matters in Drosophila, but not humans.

Does smooth cardiac muscle have an EPOC effect too? Don't leave that out.

Let's hope that VigorousSteve puts up an exciting YouTube video after running direct calorimetry on himself while using nebivolol, no matter the magnitude of effect; very important shit.

 

[psauce]

This isn't a matter of being right in principle (principles are fundamental); it's a matter of the very opposite of a principle: idiotic, myopic, irrelevant shit that matters in Drosophila, but not humans.

Without knowing the magnitude of the effect, there’s no basis for deciding whether it’s important or trivial.

I’m not worried about Steve. I’ve seen him make great points as well as very bad ones. But understanding the interaction between two really commonly used compounds is relevant regardless.

 

[Type-IIx]

Without knowing the magnitude of the effect, there’s no basis for deciding whether it’s important or trivial.

I’m not worried about Steve. I’ve seen him make great points as well as very bad ones. But understanding the interaction between two really commonly used compounds is relevant regardless.

Yes there is, actually. I'll even explain it to you.

The basis is a straightforward principle that nobody should take antihypertensive meds unless they are hypertensive. Bradycardia never, ever be experienced with rational use.

Hypertension is defined as the point at which the benefits of treatment outweigh the risks. This means that nebivolol is indicated for at 140/90 mmHg (office) or 135/85 mmHg (home). The drug should be titrated over weeks to reach a blood pressure below or equal to 130/80 mmHg (but above 120 mmHg).

It's simply not a relevant question whatsoever whether bradycardia or hypotension significantly reduce RMR, because you shouldn't ever experience them.

If you, or Steve, believe that reduced heart rate or blood pressure reduce metabolic rate at normal ranges, then that would be a claim that you or he are making - I don't listen to anything that buffoon has to say - but the onus is on the person making the claim to defend it, no?