Could Finasteride/Dutasteride reduce undesirable androgenic side effects of testosterone?

[El Papacito]

According to my research, DHT is primarily responsible for unwanted androgenic side effects of testosterone aka hair loss, massive body hair growth, oily skin, acne, prostate growth, and skin aging is also attributed to DHT.

I have been taking finasteride as a natty lifter preventively for 1.5 years and have not noticed any side effects, i feel fine maybe even better than before. I had some hair on my shoulders and back, which has definitely receded or is much thinner. My skin is not as oily as it used to be. I had to regularly dab my face with paper when I went to the toilet because the skin was always greasy. My libido is good, maybe even better than before Fin to be honest.

Finasteride prevents around 70% of the conversion of Test to DHT, Dutasteride around 90%. On cycle, of course, the testosterone level goes up and so does the DHT. Have any of you found out whether Fin fun, especially Dut, has significantly reduced the androgenic component during cycle with Test only?

Cheers

 

[tuffie]

Well on a cyle, big boy doses, when test goes up, estrogen will rise too. Called Aromatisation. Testosterone converts into estradiol and dht. If you are taking an 5a-r inhibitor (fin/dut/other), you possibly run the risk to experience sides from estrogen conversation from all the free test floating around. A good % will convert downstream. Estrogen plays a key role in some of those sides you mentioned in your post. (Some play more than others). But you don't want to inhibit estrogen levels that much (if taking an aromasation inhibitor). There's a sweet spot for everything. You can dose blindly, react when sides arise, or do blood tests if the time/money is there and take more precise measurements.

You can also think of it this way. Your baseline of free test 'x' and dht 'y'. You take fin. Now you may increase your free test 'x1' slightly and now you have lowered your dht from 'y' to 'y1' . You cycle bringing new levels to 'x2' , considering your new baseline from exposing yourself to exogenous testosterone, you will raise your dht lvls significantly, since fin is only effective reducing by %. So regardless, running a cycle however many times over baseline, you run the risk of sides even on fin or dut.

Baseline dht: 100 (you have sides so you take fin->)
Baseline dht on fin: 40 (you are happy because no sides from dht)
Baseline dht if you cycle 5x test: 500
Baseline dht on cycle 5x with fin (60% reduction): 200

 

[El Papacito]

Well on a cyle, big boy doses, when test goes up, estrogen will rise too. Called Aromatisation. Testosterone converts into estradiol and dht. If you are taking an 5a-r inhibitor (fin/dut/other), you possibly run the risk to experience sides from estrogen conversation from all the free test floating around. A good % will convert downstream. Estrogen plays a key role in some of those sides you mentioned in your post. (Some play more than others). But you don't want to inhibit estrogen levels that much (if taking an aromasation inhibitor). There's a sweet spot for everything. You can dose blindly, react when sides arise, or do blood tests if the time/money is there and take more precise measurements.

You can also think of it this way. Your baseline of free test 'x' and dht 'y'. You take fin. Now you may increase your free test 'x1' slightly and now you have lowered your dht from 'y' to 'y1' . You cycle bringing new levels to 'x2' , considering your new baseline from exposing yourself to exogenous testosterone, you will raise your dht lvls significantly, since fin is only effective reducing by %. So regardless, running a cycle however many times over baseline, you run the risk of sides even on fin or dut.

Baseline dht: 100 (you have sides so you take fin->)
Baseline dht on fin: 40 (you are happy because no sides from dht)
Baseline dht if you cycle 5x test: 500
Baseline dht on cycle 5x with fin (60% reduction): 200

Thanks for your answer!
I know, suppressing 5a reductase will result in more aromatase in estrogen. A blood count would definitely be mandatory here in order to be able to make adjustments.

I've heard from a few people that they take dutasteride on cycle as finasterid would let through too much DHT percentage (rougly 30%). Off cycle Dutasteride would be overkill for many, but on cycle it makes sense.
Dutasteride blocks about 90-95% of 5a reductase. As if you had on cycle with dutasteride +- a similar amount of DHT in the system as off cycle with finasteride.

The final question, would dutasteride AND estrogen control result in significantly fewer androgenic and estrogenic side effects on cycle?

 

[thbd123]

Also on trt and fin. Not noticed any back hair thinning, would be very happy if that happened, may try topical dut for hair restoration and hopefully reduction of body hair. Let us know if you try it and what results were.