David Z's Primer on TRT, HCG and E2 Management - Part 1 of 2

DavidZ

New Member
Swale, per your reuest, here's my Primer on TRT, HCG and E2 Management. I tried, but couldn't figure out how to post it as a Word document attachment, so I just cut and pasted it as text. I omitted the nice table of Total and Free T by 10-year age group, including mean and standard deviation, in the Appendix because it's a graphic and I don't think it will reproduce well as text. Also, since it's too big, I had to break it into 2 parts.

I wrote it mostly in 2000 and 2001 while I was figuring all this stuff out for myself. I suspect that you and/or others may disagree with parts of it, but I think it's held up pretty well against the test of time, particularly given the fledgling nature of this new science.

Anyway, I hope you and others enjoy it.

- David

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David Zs Primer on TRT, HCG and E2 Management
May 18, 2005


Chapter 1 Testosterone, TRT, and Estradiol (E2) 2
Chapter 2 HCG and Dr. Shippens Protocol 4
Dr. Shippens Protocol 6
Chapter 3 Clomid 9
Chapter 4 Selegiline 10
Chapter 5 E2 Management, DIM and Arimidex 11
Chapter 6 Amazing How Balancing T and E Improved My Health 13
Chapter 7 Adjusting DIM Dosage 15

Appendix Average Total and Free Testosterone Levels in Men by Age Group
17

Chapter 1 Testosterone, TRT, and Estradiol (E2)


Men produce less testosterone (T) as they get older. See the table of T levels for men by age group in the Appendix of this primer.

T is vitally important to a man's health. Low testosterone (i.e., hypogonadism) has been shown in scientific studies to lead to osteoporosis, atherosclerosis, high LDL (bad) cholesterol and diabetes. Also, hypogonadism leads to erectile dysfunction, loss of libido, lack of vitality, and depression. Read "The Testosterone Syndrome" by Eugene Shippen, MD. Also, see www.lef.org/protocols/prtcl-130.shtml

Testing laboratories in the US specify a normal range for blood levels of T of about 300 to 1000 ng/dl. If your T measures below the bottom of the normal range, your doctor will almost certainly suggest that you start testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). T is administered in a variety of ways including shots, patches, gels, pellets, creams, and lozenges. The goal of TRT is generally to get your blood level of T into the upper half of the normal range.

Many doctors argue that the normal ranges used by testing laboratories are based on studies that include much older men and, therefore, are not appropriate for younger men. Further, many argue that hormone levels for older men should be restored to youthful levels in order to maintain optimum health. Therefore, many doctors today will begin TRT if a man's T is below about 450.

The Leydig cells in the testicles produce almost all of a man's T (95%). The rest is produced by the adrenal glands. The amount of T produced by the testicles is regulated by the hypothalamus/pituitary axis located at the base of the brain. The receptors in the hypothalamus monitor the blood level of T and the pituitary produces Lutenizing Hormone (LH) and Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH) to signal the testicles to produce T and sperm, respectively.

When a man goes on TRT, the hypothalamus/pituitary axis senses the T in the blood and stops producing LH and FSH, thereby, signaling the testicles to stop producing T. In other words, TRT will completely shut down a man's T production. In order to raise the man's T level to the desired range, the TRT program must constitute the man's entire T needs except for the small amount supplied by the adrenals. Therefore, TRT is an all-or-nothing proposition. You cant just add a little T.

Men convert a portion of their T to Estradiol (E2) via the action the aromatase enzyme. This process, known as aromatization, increases as men get older. Many doctors believe that excess E2 is related to hypogonadism and many other health problems including prostate problems. However, this topic is relatively new and not well known or understood.

Estrogen (E) means the family of female sex hormones including Estrone (E1), Estradiol (E2), and Estriol (E3). E2 is by far the most powerful of these hormones. As a result, Estradiol and Estrogen are often used interchangeably in the literature.

Men on TRT tend to have elevated E2 levels, particularly men who take T via shots. Moderately high E2 levels cause a number of negative health effects in men. Very high E2 levels leads to gynocomastia (i.e., female-like breast development). Therefore, men on TRT should have their levels of T and E2 monitored regularly. If E2 level is consistently high, an Estrogen management protocol should be adopted.

E2 is also vitally important to men's health including bone and muscle formation. Scientific studies have shown that men born without the gene to aromatize suffer from the same list of chronic diseases of old age as men with low T. Therefore, it appears that T and E work together as a team in men. Also, E2 is necessary for libido in men.

Men also convert a portion of their T to Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) via the action the 5alpha reductase enzyme. DHT is a very powerful form of T that doesn't convert to E2. DHT cream is used as a form of TRT predominantly in Europe, but hardly at all in the USA. Studies have shown that DHT supplementation is safe and has a beneficial impact on prostate health and urinary function.


Chapter 2 HCG and Dr. Shippens Protocol


Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin (HCG) is a hormone found in men and women. Women secrete large amounts of HCG during pregnancy and men secrete large amounts during puberty.

HCG is administered as a form of TRT. HCG is an alternative to standard TRT in men with low LH and FSH (i.e., secondary hypogonadism). To determine if you are a candidate for HCG you must have a blood test showing low T, LH and FSH. This blood test cannot be taken while you're on standard TRT because standard TRT shuts down LH and FSH production and thereby distorts the test results. Alternatively, a Clomid Stimulation Test can also demonstrate secondary hypogonadism (see Chapter 3).

Rather than shutting down your body's natural T production system (like standard TRT does), HCG stimulates it back towards normal function. Your body produces it's own T. I believe that HCG is vastly superior to standard forms of TRT for the following reasons:

1. Better mimics the body's own natural physiologic rhythm of T production.

2. Easier to maintain normal T levels when administered properly.

3. More physiologic T levels minimize excess estradiol production (i.e., reduces aromatization).

4. Maintains normal size of testicles (in contrast, standard TRT shrinks the testicles).

5. Stimulates sperm production (thereby increasing/restoring fertility). In contrast, standard TRT reduces, if not eliminates, sperm production thereby making you infertile.

6. Restores normal function to testicles - the benefits of normal testicular function are not fully known. In his book "Saw Palmetto: Nature's Prostate Healer", Ray Sahelian, M.D. says that the testicles and the prostate exchange enzymes. I don't know what purpose these enzymes serve, but I'd rather have them working than not working.

The only disadvantage of HCG is that doctors are unaware of this excellent alternative.

Doctors are usually down on what they are not up on. If you ask about HCG, many doctors will give you a variety of lame, ill-conceived reasons for not prescribing HCG. These excuses all add up to the fact that they don't know how to administer it properly and don't want to take the time to learn. I wonder what percentage of doctors would take the time to learn about HCG if they were diagnosed with secondary hypogonadism?

Typical excuses for not prescribing HCG are (1) that the insurance company won't pay for it and (2) it's expensive. Both are absolutely false. Most insurance companies pay for it (if the doctor clearly states in writing that it's for hypogonadism only) and it 's cheaper than most standard forms of TRT.

The current guidelines of the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists (AACE) indicate that HCG should only be prescribed when a man is interested in fertility. As a result, most doctors will not prescribe HCG unless you tell them you are currently trying to have children. The AACE guidelines can be found at:

www.aace.com/clin/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

These guidelines (written in 1996 and updated in 2002) are considered outdated by many practitioners with respect to HCG therapy for the following reasons:

1. The guidelines call for intramuscular HCG injections. Subcutaneous injections are much more convenient, much less painful and equally effective (see discussion below and/or just ask the many men who inject HCG subcutaneously or look at their blood test results).

2. The excessive HCG dosage levels suggested in the guidelines cause a variety of problems as discussed throughout this primer. In particular, excessive HCG dosages cause elevated estradiol (E2), which defeats many of the positive effects of increased T.

3. The guidelines cite expense and inconvenience as the reasons why one wouldn't use HCG otherwise. Aren't those my judgements to make? Of course they are! The funny thing is, if I were injecting 2000 to 6000 IU per week intramuscularly, I too would consider HCG therapy expensive and inconvenient, but also ineffective (due to E2 overload). Duh?! But instead, I inject 410 IU/week subcutaneously and find it to be inexpensive, convenient and highly effective.

Unfortunately, doctors are unwilling to stray too far from their professional guidelines. Also, they are unwilling to devote the amount of time to each patient required for effective HCG therapy monitoring and education. That's just human nature. But we're talking about our health and future here! Think for yourself and you will see the fallacies in these doctors' arguments against it.

Each day more and more doctors are becoming more and more aware of the benefits of HCG. In his landmark book, The Testosterone Syndrome, Dr. Eugene Shippen makes a strong case for HCG as an alternative to standard TRT in cases of secondary hypogonadism. This book is considered by many as the definitive book on TRT.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of doctors are woefully ignorant about the proper dosage for HCG. In fact, the AACE clinical guidelines call for HCG dosages of 1000 to 2000 IU, two or three times a week. Scientific studies have demonstrated that HCG dosage levels of about 5,000 IU per week or more administered long-term cause permanent damage to the testicles (see Medline articles 6210708 and 3583230). These studies have shown that such excessive HCG dosages taken long-term result in testicular desensitization (to future stimulation by LH or HCG). In other words, long-term, such excessive dosages of HCG will result in primary hypogonadism!

Also, the AACE guidelines call for intramuscular injections when scientific studies show that subcutaneous injections work equally as well (see Medline article 8075787). My experience as well as hundreds of other men's experience proves this point. Subcutaneous injections are much easier to administer and far less painful than intramuscular injections.

I use and recommend Dr. Shippen's HCG protocol. Dr. Shippen's protocol calls for low dose shots (about 300 to 500 IU) at bedtime, 2 to 5 times a week depending upon your responsiveness. This protocol more closely mimics the body's natural physiologic rhythm of LH production. (Note: Effective April, 2005 I switched to nightly HCG shots of 65 IU/night)

Below is a copy of Dr. Eugene Shippen's HCG protocol that he emailed to me on 3/17/01. If you are interested in HCG therapy, I suggest that you show this protocol to your doctor. If your doctor has any questions, he/she should contact Dr. Shippen.

Prior to HCG therapy, Shippen gave me a Clomid Stimulation test to rule out any hypothalamus/pituitary issues such as tumors, etc. My response to this test was good. He then put me on Selegiline, which raised my T, but not enough for me.

HCG is available in shots only. It is self-administered at bedtime using the smallest of needles (0.5 cc, 31 gauge, 5/16"). Shots are simple and virtually painless.

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Dr. Shippens HCG Protocol (circa March 2001)

Chorionic Gonadotrophin Stimulation Test (males < 75 years old)*

Chorionic Gonadotrophin is presently available through most pharmacies or distributors as Profasi, Pregnyl or generic Chorionic Gonadotrophin 10,000 units per 10 cc vial. Various stimulation tests have been described, from high dose, short course testing to more normal physiologic doses over a longer time period. I have found that a typical treatment course for three weeks is best for determining those individuals who will respond well to this type of treatment. It is administered by injection 500 units (0.5 cc) SQ, Monday through Friday for three weeks. Teach patient to self administer with 50 Unit Insulin Syringes with 30 gauge needles in anterior thigh, seated with both hands free to perform the injection. Measure: Testosterone, total and free, plus E2 before starting CG and on the third Saturday AM after 3 weeks of stimulation (salivary testing may be more accurate for adjusting doses). Studies have shown that SQ is equal in efficacy to IM administration.

Results:

1. <20% rise suggests poor testicular reserve of leydig cell function (primary hypo-gonadism or eu-gonadotrophic hypo-gonadism indicating combined central and peripheral factors).

2. 20-50% increase indicates adequate reserve but slightly depressed response, mostly central inhibition but possibly decreased testicular response as well.

3. > 50% increase suggests primarily centrally mediated depression of testicular function.

Options for treatment vary both with the response to CG and patient determined choices.

1. If there is an inadequate response (< 20%), then replacement with testosterone will be indicated.

2. The area in between 20-50% will usually require CG boosting for a period of time, plus natural boosting or "partial" replacement options. I believe that full replacement with exogenous testosterone is always the last option in borderline cases since improvement over time may frequently occur as leydig cell regeneration may actually happen. Much of this is age dependent. Up to age 60, boosting is almost always successful. 60-75 is variable, but will usually be clear by the results of the stimulation test. Also, disease related depression of testosterone output might be reversible with adequate treatment of the underlying process (depression, AMI, obesity, alcohol, deficiency, etc.) This positive effect will not occur if suppressive therapy is instituted in the form of full replacement.

3. If there is an adequate response, >50% rise in testosterone, there is very good leydig cell reserve. Natural boosting or CG therapy will probably be successful in restoring full testosterone output without replacement, a better option over the long term and a more natural restoration of biologic fluctuations for optimal response.

4. Chorionic Gonadotrophin can be self-administered and adjusted according to response. In younger, high output responders (T > 1100ng/dl), CG can be given every third or fourth day at bedtime or in the AM. This also minimizes estrogen conversion. In lower level responders(600-800ng/dl), or those with a higher E2 output associated with full dose CG, 300-500 units can be given Mon-Wed-Fri. At times, sluggish responders may require a higher dose to achieve full Testosterone response. In these cases, the diluent is lowered to 7.5cc or even to 5 cc, which increases the CG concentration 1 - 2 X. This can be administered in variable doses 0.3 - 0.5cc given every 3rd day. Check salivary levels on the day of the next injection, but before the next injection to determine effectiveness and to adjust the dose accordingly. Keep in mind that later as leydig cell restoration occurs, a reduction in dose or frequency of administration may be later needed.

5. Monitor both Testosterone and E2 levels to assess response to treatment after 2 - 3 weeks after change in dose of CG as well as periodic intervals during chronic administration. Sublingual testing is very easy and cost effective. It will also better reflect the true free levels of both estrogens and testosterone. (Pharmasan Labs 888-342-7272 is very good)

6. Adjustment of dosage is a result of symptomatic response and hormone level boosting. It is based on clinical judgement as much as actual hormone levels. Remember that "Normal" ranges are for populations, not individuals!

7. Except for reports of antibodies developing against CG (I have not seen this), there are no adverse effects of chronic CG administration. An additional benefit is the boosting of Growth Hormone output which has also been reported, either as a direct effect of CG or as an effect of increased levels of testosterone.

*Protocol adapted from "The Testosterone Syndrome" by Eugene Shippen, M. D. (M Evans and Co, NY 1998).

Reprinted with permission from Eugene Shippen, M. D.

Chapter 3 - Clomid


A Clomid (Clomiphene Citrate) stimulation test is a standard protocol that has been used by endocrinologists for years to test whether a man's hypogonadism is primary or secondary. If the test is successful (i.e., if your T rises significantly), that means that all of the organs in the feedback loop (the testicles, pituitary and hypothalamus) are healthy and functional, but for some unknown reason the system has gone dormant. A successful test result also means that you are a good candidate for HCG, which in contrast to standard TRT, stimulates your body to produce its own T. See www.aace.com/clin/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

Clomid doesn't lower estrogen; it "blocks" it. Estrogen attaches to the receptors in the hypothalamus and that signals that there's enough T in your blood, so your body reduces its T production. Somehow the hypothalamus reacts to E as well as T. Clomid attaches to these receptors but doesn't act like E.

I did a Clomid stimulation test in November 1999. Dr. Shippen gave me 100 mg/day (one 50 mg tablet in the morning and one in the evening before bed) for a week. I took a blood test on the morning after the last day. My test was successful, in that, my T went from about 200 to 600.

Clomid is most often used to promote fertility in women. Therefore, if you research Clomid, the vast majority of the literature you find will discusses the use of Clomid by women rather than men. In fact, when I went to fill the prescription, the pharmacist was very leery and asked me a lot of questions before dispensing the drug.

Many people ask about using Clomid long term to boost T. The prospect of taking a pill (Clomid) is more attractive than taking shots (HCG or T). Unfortunately, Clomid is not generally recognized as a long-term therapy for hypogonadism. Clomid does not yield the full benefits of TRT or HCG, probably because it blocks some aspects of E2. As mentioned in Chapter 1, E2 is vital to a mans health including T function.



Chapter 4 Selegiline


Selegiline (aka, Deprenyl) is a prescription drug that is the darling of the anti-aging movement, which includes many doctors. It's used as an adjunct to other drugs (e.g., L-dopa, Carbidopa) in the treatment of Parkinson's disease. Selegiline works by enhancing the effectiveness of dopamine in the brain. See www.selegiline.com and search Medline.

Dr. Shippen discovered that Selegiline also increases T and discusses it on pp.188-189 of his book, The Testosterone Syndrome.

Selegiline only works in some men who have secondary hypogonadism where the feedback loop has gone quiet. Doctors don't know why this happens. By activating dopamine in the brain, Selegiline puts the hypothalamus/pituitary back into action, which produces more LH, which signals the testicles to produce more T.

Selegiline raised my T from about 200 to 400. That wasn't enough for me, so I went on HCG. Now, Selegiline allows me to lower my HCG dosage by about 20%.
 
earthdog said:
David - great reading! Thanks for posting this.
You're welcome, earthdog. Glad you enjoyed it.

I'd like to post the tables of Total and Free T levels from the Appendix of the Primer, but can't do it until someone shows me how to attach a word document here. The table is awesome. It shows average Total and Free T levels by 10-year age group from 2 different studies that correlate extremely well Included in the tables are mean and standard deviation values as well as 5th, 10th and 95th percentile values.
 
David,

You are now taking HCG daily. Have you noticed any improvements over your previous regimen and if so what are they. Have you had to make any other adjustments to your regimen with regards to selegiline and DIM.

Thanks,

Gemini
 
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gemini said:
David, You are now taking HCG daily. Have you noticed any improvements over your previous regimen and if so what are they.
I like daily shots better. (Thanks, Swale!)

I don't feel different, but it feels more even and my protocol is much easier to manage.

gemini said:
Have you had to make any other adjustments to your regimen with regards to selegiline and DIM.
Yes, but the adjustments have been very easy. I no longer have to take a different amount of DIM each day. The only tricky part was finding my maintenance dosage which I was able to do very quickly based on years of experience with this stuff. I switched to daily shots in early April and my blood test at the end of April was T=682 (260-1000), Free T=151 (50-210), E2=39 (13-54) which is pretty good for a first test after a protocol change.

I stopped taking Selegiline. My understanding of why I was taking Selegiline was to boost my h/pa to produce LH on the "off days" per Shippen. Since there are no more off days and I was on such an incredibly low dosage it didn't matter much anymore. The funny thing about Selegiline is that the longer you take it, the less you need.

gemini said:
Thanks, Gemini
You're welcome.
 
Hi David Z

I saw the first part of your primer,
but where is the second one,
from chapter 5 forward????????

Best regards, Lukas
 
Hi David

I am new on this forum. My English is not very good so pardon me for any mistake. I messed up myselft with Saw palmetto and Flomax caps. My question is why you ran low on Testosterone. Are you propecia or other stuff striken. Are you still taking HCG injection or you recovered.

thanks
spstriken
 
Hi David

your article is very informative. I have quick question what was cause for low T in your body and how are you feeling now after 4 years of treatment. are you still taking HCG injections?
 
Yep when SWALE was here they were going round and around then he got kick off here. I have known David Z for a long time he helped when I first come to the web for help with low testosterone. He has dropped off the map don't see him posting anywhere he was a get help to a lot of men.
 
I have been on TRT for 6 weeks but I want to come off. do you have any advice how should I use HCG and clomid. My doctor does not listen. I asked him to give me shots. Also do you have any idea about MACA root poweder?

thanks
 
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