Dbol Does Not Build Contractile Tissue

[adrenalytic]

Maybe some of you already knew this but I did not.

I'm doing a deep dive into dbol since I need to know everything I can about a drug before I put it in my body. Big Paul presented an albeit old but very interesting study basically confirming that dbol does not directly build contractile tissue (this is not to say that it does not contribute indirectly).

Anyway, figured I'd share the study since I see dbol in a lot of starter stacks or even (gasp) dbol only cycles. Seems like it would be better used as a support anabolic for experienced users and generally not advisable for someone just starting out but I'd love to hear other takes on the proper placement of dbol in a stack.

Effects of methandienone on the performance and body composition of men undergoing athletic training

And here's Paul's breakdown if you didn't catch it already:

 

[bananafeet]

Maybe some of you already knew this but I did not.

I'm doing a deep dive into dbol since I need to know everything I can about a drug before I put it in my body. Big Paul presented an albeit old but very interesting study basically confirming that dbol does not directly build contractile tissue (this is not to say that it does not contribute indirectly).

Anyway, figured I'd share the study since I see dbol in a lot of starter stacks or even (gasp) dbol only cycles. Seems like it would be better used as a support anabolic for experienced users and generally not advisable for someone just starting out but I'd love to hear other takes on the proper placement of dbol in a stack.

Effects of methandienone on the performance and body composition of men undergoing athletic training

And here's Paul's breakdown if you didn't catch it already:

Interesting. Winstrol seems to be a very good muscle builder but has the opposite reputation.

 

[adrenalytic]

Interesting. Winstrol seems to be a very good muscle builder but has the opposite reputation.

Never partaken but I always hear winny dries your joints out. I wonder if you pair it with dbol or NPP you could bulk on it?

 

[bananafeet]

Never partaken but I always hear winny dries your joints out. I wonder if you pair it with dbol or NPP you could bulk on it?

From what I've read it's highly anti progestogenic. The clinical application is for reducing hereditary angiodema, so that's why it's used as a cosmetic drug.

Apparently not everyone gets the joint issues. So I think it's just trial and error. The interesting thing is while sarcoplasmic hypertrophy isn't real muscle gain it can lead to myofibrilar hypertrophy.

So I suppose as long as you can eat and train it would work. Dan the bodybuilding from Thailand said he built almost all his size on long test+winny cycles.

 

[Elektrobot]

I also watched this last night and am still digesting it.

Right now I'm at "No 1 thing builds muscle".

Building muscle is a system, and everything plays a role.

 

[adrenalytic]

So I suppose as long as you can eat and train it would work.

Sounds like the perfect experiment for a lab rat such as we have designated ourselves here on Meso. I won't be bulking again until late March/April so it'll have to wait for me.

 

[adrenalytic]

I also watched this last night and am still digesting it.

Right now I'm at "No 1 thing builds muscle".

Building muscle is a system, and everything plays a role.

the evidence from the study seems pretty compelling in the way they measured potassium levels that dbol alone is only acutely effective in increasing strength and size. But I agree, there are a lot of factors at play in building real tissue.

 

[IndividualMan]

This video is relatively interesting. I read the study a year ago ish, and I cringe everytime someone says they do Dbol "for muscle size" now.

imo getting Estrogen up and getting strong as an ox are among the only reasons for using Dbol (besides "feelz" of course)
Those are all valid reasons. no shade to Dbol users/lovers.

most other commonly used AAS cause at least moderate hypertrophy even without training stimulus. (test, tren, EQ, Anadrol, Nandrolone etc) or are at least anti- catabolic.

 

[bananafeet]

Sounds like the perfect experiment for a lab rat such as we have designated ourselves here on Meso. I won't be bulking again until late March/April so it'll have to wait for me.

I'm doing a similar experiment with winny soon.

Here is the video I was thinking of re dbol vs winny:


View: https://youtu.be/P1YF9Uv2x9s

 

[120nmol]

From my personal experience winstrol is highly anabolic dried me like sand but I couldn’t walk couldn’t climb the stairs forearm cramps it was a nightmare magnesium/ taurine did nothing
Never tried pairing it with Deca so that’s a question mark for me

 

[BabaJagga]

From my personal experience winstrol is highly anabolic dried me like sand but I couldn’t walk couldn’t climb the stairs forearm cramps it was a nightmare magnesium/ taurine did nothing
Never tried pairing it with Deca so that’s a question mark for me

friend had blast with 1250 test / 500 deca / 70 winny daily and some tren

he told me it was brutal, his hands were like glass, couldnt hold them in front on box strainin, couldnt punch and squatting was super heavy. overall he felt easily breakable.

 

[adrenalytic]

I'm doing a similar experiment with winny soon.

Here is the video I was thinking of re dbol vs winny:
View attachment 371981

View: https://youtu.be/P1YF9Uv2x9s

Hell ya man, I needed something to watch during cardio tomorrow. Thanks.

 

[adrenalytic]

friend had blast with 1250 test / 500 deca / 70 winny daily and some tren

he told me it was brutal, his hands were like glass, couldnt hold them in front on box strainin, couldnt punch and squatting was super heavy. overall he felt easily breakable.

Sheesh sounds like luck of the draw with winny then. Gonna have to pick some up and see how I fair. How much and for how long do people typically run it?

 

[bananafeet]

I can't give you dosing guidelines because I have no experience with it.

But I can say that pharma stuff from India is 2mg per tablet....

So even at that low dose it's doing something. It would be good to see what the historical medical dosing guidelines were and if other things beside HDE are indicated.

So maybe people are just mega dosing it?

Hereditary angioedema: Safety of long-term stanozolol therapy - PubMed

Stanozolol may be used in the long-term treatment of patients with hereditary angioedema provided such patients are closely supervised with routine clinical, biochemical, and radiologic assessments.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It must be potent stuff if it's causing androgenicity at less than 2mg/day....

In this study it's called an "attenuated androgen".

Sheesh sounds like luck of the draw with winny then. Gonna have to pick some up and see how I fair. How much and for how long do people typically run it?

 

[BabaJagga]

Sheesh sounds like luck of the draw with winny then. Gonna have to pick some up and see how I fair. How much and for how long do people typically run it?

i would say 70mg daily is pretty hefty dose. maybe with lower one he would have lasted longer. but had some sort of stroke anyway so

 

[bananafeet]

Sorry to hijack the thread lol

Found this:

https://sci-hub.se/10.1111/j.1365-2265.1984.tb00135.x

10mg per day of stanozolol reduced testosterone levels of healthy men by 50% after two weeks.

So I suppose this would indicate the replacement equivalent dose is 20mg?

I found another study where they gave women with osteoporosis 6mg to treat bone loss.

According to this, guys who abused stanozolol experienced issues around day 55:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0973688325000064

This guy nerfed his liver after two months of 50mg stanozolol intramuscular q.o.d:

Google Scholar

scholar.google.com

So probably less than 7 weeks continuously and probably less than 50mg/day.

I don't know the difference in absorbtion between oral and intramuscular. But I'm pretty sure intramuscular absorption is slower. Maybe this makes the drug less tolerable.

Who knows what other meds the guys who ended up with liver issues were using. Type2x has an article on it and thinks it's a PR agonist. He also mentions it liberates igf1 kinda like how lowering SHBG increases free testosterone.

I'm gonna take 10mg a day probably with 12.5 to 25mg of Andadrol.

 

[BabaJagga]

Sorry to hijack the thread lol

Found this:

https://sci-hub.se/10.1111/j.1365-2265.1984.tb00135.x

10mg per day of stanozolol reduced testosterone levels of healthy men by 50% after two weeks.

So I suppose this would indicate the replacement equivalent dose is 20mg?

I found another study where they gave women with osteoporosis 6mg to treat bone loss.

According to this, guys who abused stanozolol experienced issues around day 55:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0973688325000064

This guy nerfed his liver after two months of 50mg stanozolol intramuscular q.o.d:

Google Scholar

scholar.google.com

So probably less than 7 weeks continuously and probably less than 50mg/day.

I don't know the difference in absorbtion between oral and intramuscular. But I'm pretty sure intramuscular absorption is slower. Maybe this makes the drug less tolerable.

Who knows what other meds the guys who ended up with liver issues were using. Type2x has an article on it and thinks it's a PR agonist. He also mentions it liberates igf1 kinda like how lowering SHBG increases free testosterone.

I'm gonna take 10mg a day probably with 12.5 to 25mg of Andadrol.

interesting.
i will be using phrase "nerfing the liver"

combining orals seems to work, total dose around 50mg and using them for individual benefits. var & anadrol must be fire. but toxicity tho...

 

[bananafeet]

interesting.
i will be using phrase "nerfing the liver"

combining orals seems to work, total dose around 50mg and using them for individual benefits. var & anadrol must be fire. but toxicity tho...

I dunno if I'm just being goofy but I was thinking I could get the prostaglandin effects of Andadrol and avoid the RBC and anabolism.

I'm thinking a big testosterone base will allow me to get most of the anabolism from testosterone then get the special effects of the orals.

But then again I could be talking out my arse...

 

[BabaJagga]

I dunno if I'm just being goofy but I was thinking I could get the prostaglandin effects of Andadrol and avoid the RBC and anabolism.

I'm thinking a big testosterone base will allow me to get most of the anabolism from testosterone then get the special effects of the orals.

But then again I could be talking out my arse...

it could work for you. i wanted to use anadrol for strenght PR's and bit added size at the end, recently.

well, guess what? ive lost 4kg of weight cause it murdered my appetite to the ground and below. from 4k kcal daily to under 2k in 5 days. gave me acne, lethargy and made bloodwork ugly so i had to come of...

on the other hand, my friend used it for last 6 weeks and ended up on 250mg i think? on meet day and except lethargy he did not get any sides. bloodwork came lookin very very good as well.

its aaaaall just one big experiment...