Dbol or Anadrol?

[Norse13]

IIRC a lot of golden era bodybuilders did indeed use DBol and Primo synergistically, sometimes (rarely) independently. One thing to keep in mind though, is that back in those days the tabs only came in 5mg, so they were maybe taking 10-15mg per day at the most. So can it be done? Absolutely. Is it the most healthy or optimal thing to do? Probably not.

Is that your first hand experience, you're around 50 too? Or just read it on the internet from other younger guys, who also read it on the internet, who got it from other guys who read it on the internet...

I remember in the 80s that we mixed sustanon with 10-15 of those dbol tablets per day, not 2-3. But my experiences is a small sample size, we may have been off the norm. I remember my buddy's older brother was placing top 5 in our country's BB shows, and he wasn't on 2-3 dbol either.

 

[Megadick3000]

OP: I wanna run an oral only cycle
Everyone: don’t do oral only, just start with a moderate test cycle
You: use two orals

But wait Mac, didnt i read you did an oral only cycle for contest prep?

Now i get that contest prep is a bit different, but regardless if true your no stranger to oral only cycles.

BTW if true, out of curiosity, what was that cycle?

To OP, dbol for sure because it can function for hormone replacement therapy (used to be used for that pirpose medically). The problem with dbol only is the vast majority of gains will just be water and glycogen which will peel off you after the cycle as fast as it was accumulated. Depending how long you use it you might accumulate some actual contractile tissue but 90% of your gainz will disappear post cycle.

Youd be better off using transdermal testisterone with dbol if your afraid of needles or PIP. Or even just transdermal testosterone on its own. You can make your own pretty easily and its not hard to find raw test freebase on this forum.

 

[LSDPowerlifting]

Has anyone here ever tried it? All oral only cycles suck… besides dbol. Its the only one that provides everything test can like DHT and estrogen. Still though I would stick with at least 100mg test and add a oral.

There was a guy saying he took 25mg anadrol a day for 2 years un his early 20's and it was great. I guess it didn't totally shut him down?

 

[TurtleSwag]

While I'm not against dbol only, I don't like the crazy rollercoaster that is inevitable to happen.

Imagine being the strongest and biggest version of yourself, you feel awesome and your lifts are going up each workout! GREAT!

Now you stop come off, cold turkey... you lose all that power so quickly and you are left with nothing but low testosterone because you're shut down and then it will take some time to recover, during that time you're gonna feel like old man. How long? Hard to say, everyone is different.

Dbol works fast, like really fast, but just as fast as it comes, it goes down.

With testosterone you would at least win time tapering off, because hormone is not gonna clear out in like a day or two like with dbol. Here you give time for your body to adapt and adjust for that not so good pct time. Also, here your gains are more likely to stick, than with dbol only. Remember it takes time to build real muscle and not only temporarily fill up with mineral retention and glycogen.

Pct can hit you hard, again depends on you. Only you gonna know that once you're in that phase. So be prepared for a rollercoaster ride.

P.S. this is just a friendly advice, do whatever you want and what makes you happy.

Okay thanks for that mate!

 

[bornSkinny]

Hey, sorry not to directly respond to your questions but I’m curious to know where you’re coming from wanting to do an oral only cycle?

You said you are new to board does that mean new to aas use as well? I ask because I have seen some people recommend an oral only cycle for beginners including a recent YouTube vid from Mike I at RP whom I generally love and think has amazing diet/training information. However I would strongly disagree with an oral only cycle ESPECIALLY FOR BEGINNERS and the main reason is something not mentioned too much yet above.

When you start tinkering with your hormones there can be serious consequences both good and bad. I’ve personally noticed the biggest issues I have with negative side effects of aas use, for the most part (tren not included), are when my levels are going up or down due to changing, adding/removing doses of whatever I’m taking. While my body adjusts to find homeostasis is when I’m most likely to experience issues.

Stuff like severe mood swings, acne, sleep disturbances, heartburn/gi discomfort, etc. Things that if you’re serious about building muscle, are significant obstacles.

The reason I mention it, is that orals provide you the least stable way of altering your hormone levels. Not saying it can’t work great, but IMO not the most beginner friendly. If you do have serious sides your only recourse is going to be to scrap the cycle and you’re right back where you started. I think so far everyone here has said Dbol would be a better choice. I love Dbol or at least I used to. Now if I look at a Dbol tab my gyno flares up immediately. And while unlikely, you should be prepared for the potential consequences of what your cycle could do.

So this oral only thing just seems like a half measure to me. It’s something I looked into quite a bit before I started using because honestly I was just needle shy. I wouldn’t say I was scared of them, but the idea of using myself as a pin cushion was very unappealing to me. If that’s how you’re feeling, I suggest “man up” and just do it.

A simple cycle with long esters is likely safer and easier for you. Orals are effective but are harsh and have a very different risk/return ratio.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

But wait Mac, didnt i read you did an oral only cycle for contest prep?

Now i get that contest prep is a bit different, but regardless if true your no stranger to oral only cycles.

BTW if true, out of curiosity, what was that cycle?

To OP, dbol for sure because it can function for hormone replacement therapy (used to be used for that pirpose medically). The problem with dbol only is the vast majority of gains will just be water and glycogen which will peel off you after the cycle as fast as it was accumulated. Depending how long you use it you might accumulate some actual contractile tissue but 90% of your gainz will disappear post cycle.

Youd be better off using transdermal testisterone with dbol if your afraid of needles or PIP. Or even just transdermal testosterone on its own. You can make your own pretty easily and its not hard to find raw test freebase on this forum.

…what? I have never done an oral only cycle.

 

[Megadick3000]

…what? I have never done an oral only cycle.

I stand corrected.

Couldve sworn i read a post by you some months back where you made a comment about nervously chewing and mentioning an oral only contest prep (or maybe it was a multi-oral contest prep with an injectable). I think it was in your log thread. Tried searching for it but couldnt find anything, and no way im manually going through that behemoth of a thread.

Or maybe it was just a dream I had about you... no homo tho.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

I stand corrected.

Couldve sworn i read a post by you some months back where you made a comment about nervously chewing and mentioning an oral only contest prep (or maybe it was a multi-oral contest prep with an injectable). I think it was in your log thread. Tried searching for it but couldnt find anything, and no way im manually going through that behemoth of a thread.

Or maybe it was just a dream I had about you... no homo tho.

Lol. Multiple orals yes. For sure. Never oral only unless you count the days after injectables are pulled a couple weeks out pre-contest

 

[TurtleSwag]

Hey, sorry not to directly respond to your questions but I’m curious to know where you’re coming from wanting to do an oral only cycle?

You said you are new to board does that mean new to aas use as well? I ask because I have seen some people recommend an oral only cycle for beginners including a recent YouTube vid from Mike I at RP whom I generally love and think has amazing diet/training information. However I would strongly disagree with an oral only cycle ESPECIALLY FOR BEGINNERS and the main reason is something not mentioned too much yet above.

When you start tinkering with your hormones there can be serious consequences both good and bad. I’ve personally noticed the biggest issues I have with negative side effects of aas use, for the most part (tren not included), are when my levels are going up or down due to changing, adding/removing doses of whatever I’m taking. While my body adjusts to find homeostasis is when I’m most likely to experience issues.

Stuff like severe mood swings, acne, sleep disturbances, heartburn/gi discomfort, etc. Things that if you’re serious about building muscle, are significant obstacles.

The reason I mention it, is that orals provide you the least stable way of altering your hormone levels. Not saying it can’t work great, but IMO not the most beginner friendly. If you do have serious sides your only recourse is going to be to scrap the cycle and you’re right back where you started. I think so far everyone here has said Dbol would be a better choice. I love Dbol or at least I used to. Now if I look at a Dbol tab my gyno flares up immediately. And while unlikely, you should be prepared for the potential consequences of what your cycle could do.

So this oral only thing just seems like a half measure to me. It’s something I looked into quite a bit before I started using because honestly I was just needle shy. I wouldn’t say I was scared of them, but the idea of using myself as a pin cushion was very unappealing to me. If that’s how you’re feeling, I suggest “man up” and just do it.

A simple cycle with long esters is likely safer and easier for you. Orals are effective but are harsh and have a very different risk/return ratio.

Right okay, what should I have at hand in order to deal with gyno? And will dbol suppress my natural test levels massively?

 

[Type-IIx]

Hi everyone newb here. I am looking to do a oral only cycle and was wondering which would be better Dbol or Anadrol?

Which one is more anabolic?

Which one is more toxic to the liver?

How long can you run each one and at what dosage?

Should I get blood work done before, during and after my cycle?


What would I need to take for PCT?

Thanks guys

Dbol is more anabolic per mg and is aromatizable & 5β-reducable. Functionally it can take the place of testosterone (10 mg daily is ~= replacement T). Its use in a solo oral stack is reasonable. It is potently suppressive, relatively, for a 17AA (oral).

Neither are particularly hepatotoxic at sane doses (e.g., Dbol at 30 mg, Anadrol at 50 mg) for sane durations (e.g., <= 6 weeks).

Anadrol is less directly anabolic per mg (but a preferable drug for many, it is profoundly strength-promoting) and is neither aromatizable nor 5α-reducable (as it is already 5α-reduced). It is almost non-suppressive (spermatogenesis & steroidogenesis, T secretion, may continue relatively unaltered), contrary to popular belief testosterone is far more suppressive. Anadrol does promote some fluid retention likely by acting as a progestin & does an excellent job in accruing LBM, likely by acting as a prohormone to its principal metabolite, 17α-methyl-5α-androstane-3α,17β-diol.

Bloodwork is not really necessary for <= 6 week cycles; any alterations in GGT, ALT, AST, is transient and rapidly reversed upon cessation. Bloodwork tends to promote feelings of control that are illusory.

PCT is unnecessary because it doesn't work. Don't expect substantial retention of LBM gains post-cycle (especially with 17AA orals). You'll feel quite a bit worse after the Dbol than after the Anadrol cycle, as you'll be acutely suppressed ("shut down").

A review of history shows that the "500 mg test" first cycle was promulgated initially by Chest Rockwell, probably a good bro, but wrong about many things. Likewise, the "350 mg tren ace" first tren cycle had its genesis with Bill Roberts (a smart guy, but with this unfortunate blemish on his record, as he has caused many the domestic dispute no doubt).

Generally, oral only cycles make little sense for a bodybuilder (say, NPC competitor) - if you're scared to pin, this pursuit is not for you. Oral only cycles are transient; these are temporary drugs to fill up & boost strength, but this will pass rapidly. These sorts of cycles make sense for power (e.g., hammer, shotput) athletes and speed-strength (e.g., sprints, jumps) athletes, to peak for a competition.

 

[Vanargandar]

Is that your first hand experience, you're around 50 too? Or just read it on the internet from other younger guys, who also read it on the internet, who got it from other guys who read it on the internet...

I remember in the 80s that we mixed sustanon with 10-15 of those dbol tablets per day, not 2-3. But my experiences is a small sample size, we may have been off the norm. I remember my buddy's older brother was placing top 5 in our country's BB shows, and he wasn't on 2-3 dbol either.

Did I say it was my first hand experience? No, I didn't even imply it. OP asked a question, I answered. If he wants to throw caution to the wind and be a Dbol only cycle gangster that's his choice. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't advocate doing that...or I don't know, maybe you would.

 

[BawlsDeep]

It is almost non-suppressive (spermatogenesis & steroidogenesis, T secretion, may continue relatively unaltered),

Very interesting. This is the first ive heard of anadrol being non supressive. I read a study showing oxandrolone to be minimally supressive too. What others are minimally suppressive? Is there a list rating aas supression somewhere? A general formula for determining possible supression or all trial and study?

PCT is unnecessary because it doesn't work.

For anadrol? For orals? In general? You have a reference for this? What do you recommend post cycle for a suppressive cycle?

 

[Bustybro]

Hi everyone newb here. I am looking to do a oral only cycle and was wondering which would be better Dbol or Anadrol?

Which one is more anabolic?

Which one is more toxic to the liver?

How long can you run each one and at what dosage?

Should I get blood work done before, during and after my cycle?


What would I need to take for PCT?

Thanks guys

Coming from a guy that’s done oral only before. It was a bad decision your well being isn’t as good and the gains your gonna make aren’t gonna be as good as gains from test e.

 

[Canknucklehead]

Easier than pinning, and it would also be a one off to see if I respond well to anabolic, however my 2nd cycle will be test e at 300mg a week for 16 weeks. But I’m really not sure yet will wait at least a couple of months before deciding.

Good answer.

In that case I would recommend Dbol probably around 30mg a day should be more then enough.

Make sure you don’t drink and watch the OTC painkillers such as Tylenol and Advil.

Good luck and keep us posted my friend! @TurtleSwag

Also make sure you figure out your nutrition and training before you start. Let us know if you need help with those!

 

[Type-IIx]

Very interesting. This is the first ive heard of anadrol being non supressive. I read a study showing oxandrolone to be minimally supressive too. What others are minimally suppressive? Is there a list rating aas supression somewhere? A general formula for determining possible supression or all trial and study?

Generally, the 5α-androstan-3-ones are relatively nonsuppressive. No, there is no list rank ordering suppressive effects, but I do keep track. Studies that look at FSH, LH, TT are what you look for.

For example, Hengge, Ulrich R., et al. “Double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled phase III trial of oxymetholone for the treatment of HIV wasting.” Aids 17.5 (2003): 699-710, a trial in 79 HIV-infected men randomized to 50 mg oxymetholone 2x daily, 50 mg oxymetholone 3x daily (HIGH dose), or a placebo, saw TT decreased by 68% in the 150 mg group and 71% in the 100 mg group. LH decreased by 52% and 65%, respectively. The difference, ~32% TT, reflects basal endogenous T synthesis and secretion from the Leydig cell; i.e., not complete suppression.

For anadrol? For orals? In general? You have a reference for this? What do you recommend post cycle for a suppressive cycle?

In general, for all (suppressive) AAS. See Smit, D. L., et al. (2021). Disruption and recovery of testicular function during and after androgen abuse: the HAARLEM study. Human Reproduction.

I recommend stimulating HPG axis functioning with hCG & optimally, hMG also, while on cycle. Post-cycle, blasting these will work; but is suboptimal.

 

[hudson98]

add 200mg to your 2nd cycle, and make that your first cycle, and skip the 6 weeks of puffing up like a blow fish then pufing back down smaller than your original size you plan to do with dbol. the only thing you may get permanent from it are tits

 

[BawlsDeep]

Generally, the 5α-androstan-3-ones are relatively nonsuppressive. No, there is no list rank ordering suppressive effects, but I do keep track. Studies that look at FSH, LH, TT are what you look for.

For example, Hengge, Ulrich R., et al. “Double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled phase III trial of oxymetholone for the treatment of HIV wasting.” Aids 17.5 (2003): 699-710, a trial in 79 HIV-infected men randomized to 50 mg oxymetholone 2x daily, 50 mg oxymetholone 3x daily (HIGH dose), or a placebo, saw TT decreased by 68% in the 150 mg group and 71% in the 100 mg group. LH decreased by 52% and 65%, respectively. The difference, ~32% TT, reflects basal endogenous T synthesis and secretion from the Leydig cell; i.e., not complete suppression.

In general, for all (suppressive) AAS. See Smit, D. L., et al. (2021). Disruption and recovery of testicular function during and after androgen abuse: the HAARLEM study. Human Reproduction.

I recommend stimulating HPG axis functioning with hCG & optimally, hMG also, while on cycle. Post-cycle, blasting these will work; but is suboptimal.

Fantastic! Thank you

 

[TurtleSwag]

Just wanted to say thank you everyone for all your responses. After careful consideration I have decided to ditch the idea of a dbol only cycle and man up to doing a test only cycle at 300mg for 16 weeks. This will take place starting April 2023, this will give me plenty of time to grow some more naturally and get my training dialled in properly along with diet and research etc. I have been training since middle of June this year and below are photos of what I currently look like. My current weight is 102kg and body fat I believe is about 25%. Age currently is 23, going to be 24 on October 2022.


Having trouble deciding whether after my 1st cycle if I should do a PCT or TRT. For me it makes more sense to be on TRT of about 125mg a week, no need to constantly buy PCT and feel like shit for a couple of weeks and loss muscle mass. It also makes more sense as my long term goal is to compete in the future hopefully in a couple of years, furthermore by 25 your natural test levels will be diminishing as each year goes on. So not sure at the moment. What do you guys think?

 

[Type-IIx]

Just wanted to say thank you everyone for all your responses. After careful consideration I have decided to ditch the idea of a dbol only cycle and man up to doing a test only cycle at 300mg for 16 weeks. This will take place starting April 2023, this will give me plenty of time to grow some more naturally and get my training dialled in properly along with diet and research etc. I have been training since middle of June this year and below are photos of what I currently look like. My current weight is 102kg and body fat I believe is about 25%. Age currently is 23, going to be 24 on October 2022.


Having trouble deciding whether after my 1st cycle if I should do a PCT or TRT. For me it makes more sense to be on TRT of about 125mg a week, no need to constantly buy PCT and feel like shit for a couple of weeks and loss muscle mass. It also makes more sense as my long term goal is to compete in the future hopefully in a couple of years, furthermore by 25 your natural test levels will be diminishing as each year goes on. So not sure at the moment. What do you guys think?

I think that you're young and healthy enough, and your training status is still novice, to continue making excellent gains without the hazards of AAS just yet. Have you already had all the children that you plan on (0 is a valid option here)? Because it does sound like fertility is already a foregone concern for you at 23 years of age.

I think that you can continue without gear for 2.5 years of PROPER training and nutrition before adding gear. There are a lot of things to learn, the whole training and bodybuilding pursuit is continued education.

 

[TurtleSwag]

I think that you're young and healthy enough, and your training status is still novice, to continue making excellent gains without the hazards of AAS just yet. Have you already had all the children that you plan on (0 is a valid option here)? Because it does sound like fertility is already a foregone concern for you at 23 years of age.

I think that you can continue without gear for 2.5 years of PROPER training and nutrition before adding gear. There are a lot of things to learn, the whole training and bodybuilding pursuit is continued education.

I have a 7 month old baby boy who is happy and healthy, that is all I ever wanted and I have a partner and we both live together and have a stable income. I don’t want anymore kids. One is more than enough for us.