Degradation

[janoshik]

A client of mine respectfully request me to produce these data and I have decided to share them:
Methenolone Enanthate dissolved in methanol, room temperature, on light, ~ 5 months: 3.35%
Methenolone Enanthate dissolved in methanol, fridge, ~ 16 months: 4.94%

These I done out of my own volition (also I really needed to do some cleaning!):
Trenbolone enanthate dissolved in methanol, room temperature, on light, ~ 5 months: 0.92% ( less than uncertainty! )

More to come if I have the time sometime.

This will suck more in oil than in methanol, I somehow assume.

However guys, remember, oil on thick Russian muscles never goes bad.


Cheers

 

[Thegreek]

A client of mine respectfully request me to produce these data and I have decided to share them:
Methenolone Enanthate dissolved in methanol, room temperature, on light, ~ 5 months: 3.35%
Methenolone Enanthate dissolved in methanol, fridge, ~ 16 months: 4.94%

These I done out of my own volition (also I really needed to do some cleaning!):
Trenbolone enanthate dissolved in methanol, room temperature, on light, ~ 5 months: 0.92% ( less than uncertainty! )

More to come if I have the time sometime.

This will suck more in oil than in methanol, I somehow assume.

However guys, remember, oil on thick Russian muscles never goes bad.


Cheers

Just so I know if I’m reading this right. Let’s say the ME tested at 99 percent. In 5 months it dropped to 96 percent. Give or take a little.

 

[MadBret]

@RThoads isn't going to like this very much...pfttt...I'm fairly sure that he assured us that expired oils should outlast most of the members of this board and anyone who says otherwise is likely just a reverse scammer.

I'm paraphrasing of course, as he has actually written three books on the subject, available on Amazon with free prime shipping, the last I checked.

 

[janoshik]

Just so I know if I’m reading this right. Let’s say the ME tested at 99 percent. In 5 months it dropped to 96 percent. Give or take a little.

This was in methanol solution that I had kept. eg 5 months ago it tested at 100 mg/ml now 96.7 mg/ml.

very simplified, but that's pretty much it.
these were standard solutions, so the margin of error is (hopefully!) around 1%, give the amount of multiplicates I've done

 

[janoshik]

Trenbolone enanthate dissolved in methanol, fridge, ~ 8 months: 3.69%


Trenbolone enanthate dissolved in methanol, fridge, ~ 19 months: 49.93% (lol)



Wild shit.

 

[Thegreek]

If you were going to do a test like this would it have made more sense to have a normally brewed compound in gso or mct and 18/2 for a more real world degradation. Why just the straight methanol. Not criticizing. Just wondering the thought process.

 

[janoshik]

If you were going to do a test like this would it have made more sense to have a normally brewed compound in gso or mct and 18/2 for a more real world degradation. Why just the straight methanol. Not criticizing. Just wondering the thought process.

these were standard solutions

These degradation measurements are a seized opportunity, not a deliberate long term study.

 

[Ambusher]

This is disconcerting. I've always been told that vials can be stored for years, without any accompanying loss in quality or potency. How do these processes occur and are there ways to mitigate them?

 

[janoshik]

Trenbolone Acetate dissolved in methanol, room temperature, on light, ~ 5 months: 25.19%


Methenolone Acetate dissolved in methanol, room temperature, on light, ~ 5 months: 19.16%

 

[GuerillaPete]

Yeah good to know at least i know now that my gear fridge was not a bad idea….

 

[Sampei]

I'm not so sure about this. I have had test E 2+ years old and it was giving me the same bloods as the new one I injected a month before.

If the degradation was so strong we would all inject super undedosed gear. How many of us buy 2-3 cycles in advanced? A lot and the gear is not always freshly produced.. we still get the gains right? So where is the truth here?

 

[Boss hog]

Interesting, I wonder how some old raws would test not in methanol.
Just recently I got my blood work back on my cruise dose 250 test I and it came back mid 1700. The test I that I was using was atleast 3 + years old

 

[janoshik]

I'm not so sure about this. I have had test E 2+ years old and it was giving me the same bloods as the new one I injected a month before.

If the degradation was so strong we would all inject super undedosed gear. How many of us buy 2-3 cycles in advanced? A lot and the gear is not always freshly produced.. we still get the gains right? So where is the truth here?

Well, I just do the measurements - I think the practice of usually not storing stuff on light might be helping a lot. At some point I'll be getting to test too.

 

[xvdreQ]

Methanol is what you use to make standard solutions for controls?

Does Methanol have a tendency to break chemical bonds?

Does GSO, MCT, Mig840, BB and BA also break those chemical bonds?

I was under the assumption that shorter esters have stronger bonds with higher melting points? No ester having the strongest bond with highest melting point.

When a test is performed do you also test for the base hormone in addition to the estered hormone? Does the ester bond break leaving free base hormone?

Like many others I've used aas that has been stored for years, I think the oldest stuff I've ever used is some nandrolone (NPP) that was in ampules that was 8 years old and it had all the effects I would normally get from non-expired hormone.

I always store my brews in total dark at around 65 F/ 18 C. I have a tendency to do larger brews and don't use all of what I brew until about 5 years. I haven't noticed a drop off in effect, but only testing would tell.

I would guess it's better to store our raws at low temp, no light, low moisture, low or no oxygen heat sealed mylar bags and only brew what we need every 12 months.

This could basically toss out the bro science to leave your hormone in oil and filter as needed. This advice would have to go away if these future test prove the sauce is getting weaker even if stored correctly.

 

[janoshik]

Methanol is what you use to make standard solutions for controls?

Does Methanol have a tendency to break chemical bonds?

yep and no, methanol is not too reactive.

 

[janoshik]

Does GSO, MCT, Mig840, BB and BA also break those chemical bonds?

they are more reactive than methanol

 

[janoshik]

I was under the assumption that shorter esters have stronger bonds with higher melting points?

Ester bond is ester bond tho.

eg, with methenolone I suspect ester getting cleaved off, with tren it's the base molecule getting all sorts of fucked up

 

[xvdreQ]

This isn't good for those of us with 50+ vials of premium brew.

I'm guessing most sources should have no more than a 12 month expiration on their vials? Users have always been hoarders, we are always in fear of someone cracking down on supply.

My worry about shelf life caused me to do a large stock up on base or acetate raws because I've always been worried that supply might dry up. I gotta assume well packed and stored raws can be kept for at least a decade to be used in an emergency.

 

[xvdreQ]

I understand that a long ester like enanthate, decanoate, undecanoate will easily come apart, but surely the 60% of base hormone stays intact or does that also fall apart easily due to the chemical process of adding esters?

 

[xvdreQ]

One other question.

I've got vials of base and acetate brews where they have crashed. The crystals look the same as they did from years ago. I've got acetate brews from 5 years back and the crashed square crystals are still sitting at the bottom of the vials until I chose to use them by rewarming.

Would this still be degraded?