Determining if I need TRT

[MrUniverse]

My balls already make enough testosterone; my testosterone levels are within normal range, which was proven by the blood test I did a month ago.

As for the reason, I said it won't be TRT. It will start as a TRT so I can see how my body reacts. Then the dose will be slowly increased over time, with blood tests done after each increase. That way I will measure my aromatization rate and see how far I can go without AIs.

The method will also allow me to see WHEN EXACTLY to start AIs. Starting AIs earlier when estrogen is within normal range can crash the level, resulting in terrible side effects.

even if you succeeded, your body changes from day to day and therefore even by repeating the same cycle after some time your values will be different

 

[clearheaded]

Off course there's papers about it.

Gonadotropins have only a very marginal effect on kidney steroidogenesis. Not many LH receptors there (in the adrenal cortex) and it's why dhea doesn't drop so much on trt.

thanks, I guess the confusing part is that HCG a analog of LH stimulates dhea... perhaps not much. wonder what shuts off dhea secretin and of course what turns in on.. lol sorta getting in the weeds, but thats the confusing part..

I suppose the amount HCG increases would be very small than if loss of LH means no real decrease... or perhaps another mechanism involved. thanks

I guess my point was to the OP there is more involved than Just T and estrogen...

 

[Mishka]

I'd look at the age of the person. I'd start TRT no later than 40 years old.

 

[Jin23]

thanks, I guess the confusing part is that HCG a analog of LH stimulates dhea... perhaps not much. wonder what shuts off dhea secretin and of course what turns in on.. lol sorta getting in the weeds, but thats the confusing part..

I suppose the amount HCG increases would be very small than if loss of LH means no real decrease... or perhaps another mechanism involved. thanks

I guess my point was to the OP there is more involved than Just T and estrogen...

DHEA, like many other adrenal hormones, is primarily stimulated by ACTH which is stimulated by CRH. Large enough dosages of androgens can lower CRH. As everything this varies between individuals and between dosages aaand which steroids are used. TRT is not the same as 500 mg test + 30mg dbol + 200 mg primo ... Steroidogenesis pathways are also directly effected by androgens due to enzyme inhibition and the gonads are also effected by androgens. At a high enough dose of testosterone, for instance, ITT levels can increase and stimulate spermatogenesis; if you've ever seen your balls shrink on trt and increase in size on 500 mg's, this is it.

In certain conditions adrenal's LH expression can increase. I've come across this literature before but have put off it's research, it's on the to do list. However, if you increase P450scc, which hcg and LH do increase, then by increasing pregnenolone you also to a degree effect the steroids which are more downstream in the steroidogenesis cascade as there is more "substrate". Yes, the increase in other steroids synthesis happens in the gonads too but to a much lesser extent. 17,20-lyase, which converts 17-OH preg to DHEA is also expressed in the leydig cells. So this one of the reasons why HCG and LH increase DHEA.

Don't be confused, this chart goes from right to left.

 

[Bigguwap42069]

In other words lives normal and average life, cuz we know we ain't normal by society standards when we eat our diet and train. Good thing at least they don't know about our use of peds, cuz that is compared to junkies by normies...

Anyway, yes OP. Read and think about what he said and think again. Maybe your lifestyle is to point a finger to and blame is the first step.

Trt/peds or whatever drugs are really not gonna do much unless you nail the basics and master the diet first and then training second. Healthy Testosterone levels doesn't automatically transform you, but it helps. Your will to change your lifestyle once and for all will. It takes time, a lot of time. From average to athletic body it takes most people 2-3 years of serious hard work.

Normies think steroids remove your penis and have a Anyone can get jacked using steroids theory

 

[Mrwin]

again, other friends did 1 cycle randomly early 20s and said it took 4-5 years to feel normal... this is not uncommon.

Maybe they forgot how it felt to be natty.

 

[Fattyone]

My balls already make enough testosterone; my testosterone levels are within normal range, which was proven by the blood test I did a month ago.

As for the reason, I said it won't be TRT. It will start as a TRT so I can see how my body reacts. Then the dose will be slowly increased over time, with blood tests done after each increase. That way I will measure my aromatization rate and see how far I can go without AIs.

The method will also allow me to see WHEN EXACTLY to start AIs. Starting AIs earlier when estrogen is within normal range can crash the level, resulting in terrible side effects.

Out of curiosity, what magical number will an AI be introduced?

 

[G0ld]

U wrote that your body produces testosterone starting from the testosterone you inject, did I get it right?

Somewhat.

The body metabolizes the synthetic testosterone in order to get testosterone.

 

[G0ld]

Out of curiosity, what magical number will an AI be introduced?

When estrogen begins to go above the reference range?

 

[readalot]

When estrogen begins to go above the reference range?

So help me with logic of running supraphysiologic TT/FT levels but needing to keep your E2 in range?

Or will you ensure your peak/mean TT/FT levels never venture above reference range?

 

[Fattyone]

When estrogen begins to go above the reference range?

Depending on how high you take your test you’re about to get exactly what you want. Knowledge. Unfortunately it’s gonna be the hard way, which often is the best way to learn I guess.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Somewhat.

The body metabolizes the synthetic testosterone in order to get testosterone.

The body does not metabolize bioidentical synthetic testosterone to create testosterone.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Somewhat.

The body metabolizes the synthetic testosterone in order to get testosterone.

What I genuinely don't understand why you come here to ask for help and you are trying to educate us on the topic you clearly know nothing about.

 

[G0ld]

So help me with logic of running supraphysiologic TT/FT levels but needing to keep your E2 in range?

Or will you ensure your peak/mean TT/FT levels never venture above reference range?

It sounds like your first question is presupposing that if I run supra physiological T levels, I won't need to keep estrogen in check?

As for your second question, the answer is no. As I already said, I will start with a TRT dose to see how the body reacts. The dose then will be slowly increased over time, with blood tests done after each increase. The point of this is to measure my aromatization rate and see how far I can go without AIs.

Eventually, I will reach cycle doses, but I feel like the safest and best option is to start slowly with a small dose.

 

[G0ld]

The body does not metabolize bioidentical synthetic testosterone to create testosterone.

In other words, 100 milligrams of synthetic testosterone (not counting ester's weight) is literally the same thing as 100 milligrams of natural testosterone?

So, the level of testosterone (ng/dL) the body get from 6 mg natural testosterone a day, will be the same as the level it will get from the same dose, but synthetic one?

6 x 7 = 42

So, it seems, naturally, the body produces about 50 mg testosterone a week. If this is correct, why is it supposed 100-150 milligrams of synthetic testosterone is what is needed for keeping testosterone within normal range? Or is 50 mg for an average level (about 500-600 ng/dL), while 100-150 mg is for the upper limit (about 1,000 ng/dL)?

 

[Jin23]

In other words, 100 milligrams of synthetic testosterone (not counting ester's weight) is literally the same thing as 100 milligrams of natural testosterone?

So, the level of testosterone (ng/dL) the body get from 6 mg natural testosterone a day, will be the same as the level it will get from the same dose, but synthetic one?

6 x 7 = 42

So, it seems, naturally, the body produces about 50 mg testosterone a week. If this is correct, why is it supposed 100-150 milligrams of synthetic testosterone is what is needed for keeping testosterone within normal range? Or is 50 mg for an average level (about 500-600 ng/dL), while 100-150 mg is for the upper limit (about 1,000 ng/dL)?

You already have this answered in this thread.

You have to equate for ester weight. 70mg's of natural testosterone does not equal 70mg of Te. And as absorption is also a relevant factor with exogenous testosterone administration, as is the cleavage of testosterone from the ester by enzymes, comparing mg's of naturally produced test to mg's of injected test makes little sense.

Also, change that stupid profile picture. It isn't helping you, at all. For all the time and nerves we're spending indulging in your ego stupidity, you could have at least given us some boobs or ass.

 

[readalot]

estrogen in check?

In check?

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

In other words, 100 milligrams of synthetic testosterone (not counting ester's weight) is literally the same thing as 100 milligrams of natural testosterone?

So, the level of testosterone (ng/dL) the body get from 6 mg natural testosterone a day, will be the same as the level it will get from the same dose, but synthetic one?

6 x 7 = 42

So, it seems, naturally, the body produces about 50 mg testosterone a week. If this is correct, why is it supposed 100-150 milligrams of synthetic testosterone is what is needed for keeping testosterone within normal range? Or is 50 mg for an average level (about 500-600 ng/dL), while 100-150 mg is for the upper limit (about 1,000 ng/dL)?

When are you going to run gear?

 

[G0ld]

When are you going to run gear?

When the package arrives and I do the allergy tests.

 

[G0ld]

What's so funny, @trtbuilder ?