Diet advice to get lean

[FutureMrO]

Hey guys I'm currently cutting down and the weights been coming down slowly and looking leaner. Currently sitting at 78.6-.3kg I want to get my abs pretty lean just got the lower part!
I'm eating 2205cal
P210
F85
C150
And I got a new pb on legs yesterday. I'm doing 30 min cardio in the morning and 30 post workout.

So I feel like I'm stuck. Should I drop carbs and fats? Or add 10 minutes cardio to both workouts? I'm keeping fats high because I feel better but if I have to I'll be happy to drop.

Thanks for the advice in advance

 

[FutureMrO]

Oh and I do 1 cheat meal a week! Pizza and ice cream

 

[TRT]

Carbs never contributed to building muscle. Knock that down a little. And then when you stop dropping weight then drop a little fat but not to much.

 

[RodgerThat]

Carbs never contributed to building muscle

Weird thought your body needed fuel to build muscle. Carbs do contribute to building muscle please research more.


OP I'm supposing you're doing LISS cardio? If you do cardio post workout do a HIIT style burns more calories per minute so you'll only have to do 15mins instead of bumping up to 45mins of LISS.

There's so many factors to this but essientially you either have to increase your TDEE or decrease your overall calories. You're low on your calories as is but I'd say if you don't want to expend more energy drop fats to 70g they are a tad bit high for your weight anyways. If you've hit a true stall then it's time to reverse diet and increase your metabolism then go back at it again unless you are on a strict time frame or trying to compete.

Other variables that aren't mentioned is what PEDs you're taking.

 

[TRT]

Carbs are fuel. Fuel allows you to workout to build muscle. If fat is burned for fuel then you should be gtg.
I do agree with the HIIT style cardio though.

 

[TRT]

@RodgerThat ://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3850644/#!po=1.56250

 

[TRT]

This is why I thought that. Plus based off what I've done 4x now. I'm very flat and sluggish during the transition from carbs to no carbs.

I'd weight 167lbs before keto. Then after I drop the fat and went back to carbing I'd weight 164. So I only lost 3lbs of fat? And was on keto for 2.5 months? Not being sarcastic seriously asking. (Also cycling very little during this keto).

 

[RodgerThat]

@RodgerThat ://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3850644/#!po=1.56250

Good study bud very conclusive....
Literally the last line of the study word for word:
"Further studies are required before conclusions and recommendations can be made."

Carbs are fuel. Fuel allows you to workout to build muscle. If fat is burned for fuel then you should be gtg.
I do agree with the HIIT style cardio though.

You don't build muscle during a workout you induce microtears that you body heals during recovery, if you don't have addiquete calories and rest your body doesn't fully heal those microtears let alone adapt and build. You aren't burning fat and building muscle so you aren't GTG by your recommendation. Fat should be at .35xbw-0.4xbw during your cut, protein from 1g per lb of BW to 1.4g per lb of BW. Carbs your fuel why would you strip someone of their fuel when they are glycogen dependant?

 

[TRT]

And if you had adequate calories from fat and protein?
I picking your brain at this point.

 

[RodgerThat]

And if you had adequate calories from fat and protein?
I picking your brain at this point.

Adequate in what meaning?
As in you match your TDEE?
As in your fat and protein make up you're entire diet, in a ketosis style?
As in a calorie surplus so your body can build?

If you are utilizing ketones as your method of fuel then yes you are correct no carbs are needed, is this the most benificiary way to build muscle? No it's not because you don't have the same insulin responds nor the same ability to utilize fast twitch fibre to the same potential as when they have glycogen. I'm all for keto but it isn't the most effective way to build muscle even though you can.

But if you are meaning adequate but still in a calorie surplus then no you aren't building muscle unless you are completely new to training and your body is still under its stressor and adaptive stage or if you've taken a long time off and rebuilding which essientially has you at the same point as someone new. Your body is an amazing thing but its number one priority is to survive and if you are in a calorie deficit with the absence of an UNKNOWN stresser (meaning your body has already adapted to working out regularly) then your body is in a survival state and therefor won't be diverting its energy sources to building the most catabolic tissue which is muscle (as it burns more calorie per lb)

 

[TRT]

Adequate in what meaning?
As in you match your TDEE?
As in your fat and protein make up you're entire diet, in a ketosis style?
As in a calorie surplus so your body can build?

If you are utilizing ketones as your method of fuel then yes you are correct no carbs are needed, is this the most benificiary way to build muscle? No it's not because you don't have the same insulin responds nor the same ability to utilize fast twitch fibre to the same potential as when they have glycogen. I'm all for keto but it isn't the most effective way to build muscle even though you can.

But if you are meaning adequate but still in a calorie surplus then no you aren't building muscle unless you are completely new to training and your body is still under its stressor and adaptive stage or if you've taken a long time off and rebuilding which essientially has you at the same point as someone new. Your body is an amazing thing but its number one priority is to survive and if you are in a calorie deficit with the absence of an UNKNOWN stresser (meaning your body has already adapted to working out regularly) then your body is in a survival state and therefor won't be diverting its energy sources to building the most catabolic tissue which is muscle (as it burns more calorie per lb)

Ya. I can clearly see that I did not explain that at all. Sorry. Just caused some pointless posts.
Yes, ketones in a ketogenic state. Surplus of calories. Should have mentioned all that. Can ya tell I need coffee and sleep. Haha

Back to OP now.

 

[FutureMrO]

So what would you guys recommend? I'm thinking of just doing more cardio! Did a cheat meal last night so that'll definitely help! I'll drop fats and carbs if nothing happens tbh food is already fucking low lmao! But you gotta suffer to look good hay

 

[RodgerThat]

So what would you guys recommend? I'm thinking of just doing more cardio! Did a cheat meal last night so that'll definitely help! I'll drop fats and carbs if nothing happens tbh food is already fucking low lmao! But you gotta suffer to look good hay

Drop the cheat meal and instead spread it throughout the week as an extra 300-400 calories over 4-5 days depending on how big a cheat meal you usually do. This will help the daily hunger and make you avoid the over indulging which basically has you spinning your wheels but not going anywhere. Why put in so much work Monday-Friday if you blow it all on the weekend right? Ya have fun but just like money you can't blow a weeks worth of work on the weekend or you'll never get anywhere in life.

 

[FutureMrO]

Yeah that's true I tried that before didn't really work well! I think when I shock my body and eat a pizza it gets everything working again lmao! How much cardio is to much cardio? I don't mind cardio at all tbh!

 

[Docd187123]

Carbs never contributed to building muscle. Knock that down a little. And then when you stop dropping weight then drop a little fat but not to much.

Remember the context of the question: OP is dieting and trying to lose fat. Not even protein will contribute to building muscle in this context either. That doesn't mean we drop down the protein nor is it reason enough alone to drop carbs.

I would personally do more cardio and cut around 30g of fat from the diet which should add 270cals to the deficit.

Carbs help restore glycogen levels. Protein and fat don't. Insulin you're intolerant to carbs, you'll perform better with more carbs and more glycogen. Another reason is that dieting in itself is a stressor to the body. Survival mechanism turn on when dieting so things like cortisol and aldosterone go up, T3 and other thyroid hormones go down, leptin goes down, and ghrelin goes up. The more carbs you keep in the diet the longer you'll be able to go before they become very burdensome on the diet.

 

[FutureMrO]

Thank you I'll definitely be adding more cardio in the next few days! After dropping carbs next time! Iv been thinking of doing a keto to finish of the cut ?

 

[RodgerThat]

Thank you I'll definitely be adding more cardio in the next few days! After dropping carbs next time! Iv been thinking of doing a keto to finish of the cut ?

I have a keto thread and I want to make this clear, I love keto but it is NOT I repeat NOT more benifical then a regular diet of equivalent calorie deficit. Yes you'll have a spike in weight loss but that's only due to water retention with the carbs and will come back when you start eating carbs again. Keto is great if you get hunger pains or enjoy a high fat diet but otherwise it does take a toll on your intensity during a workout. Although if you are mostly a LISS guy and don't care much about weights that's when keto really shines cause you feel like you can go forever.

 

[FutureMrO]

That's interesting everyone always says keto is the next big thing!!! I'll only do it for 2-3 weeks at the end might chuck some clen in the mix... not fussed about cardio time flys when you watch YouTube vids lol... I love the working out part so yeah that might suffer a little

 

[TRT]

@RodgerThat
There was actually a very recent study that was testing protein synthesis and how much your body actually utilized for overall protein synthesis vs muscle protein synthesis and the post workout carbs were not essential. The amount of insulin needed was adequate at 90-100 and that the post workout carbs was only to replenish glycogen stores and played no role in cellular uptake during muscle protein synthesis.

Hope I repeated all that correctly. It's on YouTube. I think it was Dr. Brendon something. Did you see that one already?

 

[RodgerThat]

@RodgerThat
There was actually a very recent study that was testing protein synthesis and how much your body actually utilized for overall protein synthesis vs muscle protein synthesis and the post workout carbs were not essential. The amount of insulin needed was adequate at 90-100 and that the post workout carbs was only to replenish glycogen stores and played no role in cellular uptake during muscle protein synthesis.

Hope I repeated all that correctly. It's on YouTube. I think it was Dr. Brendon something. Did you see that one already?

I've never claimed anything for post workout carbs, I don't really care about meal timing just daily macro count. The only noticeable difference I've found for meal timing is for when I have my preworkout mcdonalds bacon and egg mcmuffin. If I have it too close I restate it but if it's too far away during heavy squats and deads my stomach feels empty and crushed.

Unless you are taking insulin you don't really need to worry about when you eat your carbs as your body is amazing at restoring them, as long as you've had some carbs between workouts you're good doesn't matter if it's 20mins after of 8hours after.

I haven't seen the video but I believe the premise is correct.