E2 Rebounding Help

[Mrbarbells]

Came off a test/tren cycle 6 weeks since pct..

Didnt run adex through pct and got e2 rebound that I didn’t detect until bloods 6 weeks after PCT.. (never had a rebound issue post pct bloods this way)

E2 at 190pmol/l (51pg) - usually 26pg
Test at 16nmol/l (490ng) - normal

Everything else within usual off cycle range

Currently taking adex for a few days:
1mg day 1
.25 e3d

After day 4 I feel better.. So continuing at .25 again then following week .125

Question being if I discontinue adex will I get another rebound since it binds and isn’t suicidal..? If not, why? Would it rebound to ‘normal’ natural level? Again, why?

 

[MisterSuperGod]

Edit: Avoiding an argument. Truncated version...

Your E2 isn't much beyond the reference range. You said Adex made you feel better. What was wrong to begin with that prompted you to start taking it again?

 

[Mrbarbells]

The basis that my normal e2 natural, before and after cycle has always been half.. All other bloods values normal for me except e2

Had an awful libido, bloating and high bp.

 

[MisterSuperGod]

Something isn't right. i can only speculate since i'm a TRT guy, but let me ask a few more members that know more about this than i do.

@Eman
@Ninjaturtle2020
@Mac11wildcat
@Type-IIx

 

[Eman]

E2 rebound is a myth. There is no such thing. Running an AI during PCT isn't for estrogen rebound, it's to purposely tank your estrogen to encourage your body to produce testosterone - it's an antiquated method of PCT since SERMs are available now.

I'm not sure I quite understand the timeline here but my guess is that your E2 was high when you were finishing the cycle, you just weren't bothered by it. Once things got closer to being back to normal you noticed it, got bloods, it appeared high... but it's actually lower than it was previously. Sometimes e2 can be high and individuals will feel fine but then not feel fine when it gets into a certain range... or the sudden increase or decrease in hormone levels can be what causes discomfort as well.

Again, just a guess... only thing that really makes sense to me. I'd strongly encourage limiting or discontinuing the AI because what I do know for sure is that your estrogen levels are not caused by any rebound. You have a normal testosterone level, your E2 will quickly reach its normal level... there's only a modest amount of conversion going on now.

 

[Type-IIx]

Came off a test/tren cycle 6 weeks since pct..

Didnt run adex through pct and got e2 rebound that I didn’t detect until bloods 6 weeks after PCT.. (never had a rebound issue post pct bloods this way)

E2 at 190pmol/l (51pg) - usually 26pg
Test at 16nmol/l (490ng) - normal

Everything else within usual off cycle range

Currently taking adex for a few days:
1mg day 1
.25 e3d

After day 4 I feel better.. So continuing at .25 again then following week .125

Question being if I discontinue adex will I get another rebound since it binds and isn’t suicidal..? If not, why? Would it rebound to ‘normal’ natural level? Again, why?

What esters of test/tren, how long did you wait after last pin to do PCT? What were the conditions of your baseline blood work? How many samples do you have at "baseline?"

Before getting into hypotheticals (there are camps of people who believe rebound gyno occurs or more likely that the compounds were mislabeled); there could be a metabolism issue, there could be a measurement issue (was your baseline a true baseline?) The problem with PCT broscience, that we all have to try to interpret, is that it's at best informally empirical and guided by anecdotes and internet self-reports. The notion of rebound gyno, what your baseline measured, and whether PCT even accomplishes anything other than driving us crazy, are all open questions.

Right now I find myself thinking that your E2 is not that out of range and if you just leave it alone after maybe a couple days of dosing Adex it's going to normalize (no oracle can predict exactly when). Why not just stop throwing AIs and SERMs at it?

 

[Mrbarbells]

Thanks so:

Running test/tren E, 2 week clear esters before pct, the week before starting pct I discontinued adex so as not to crash e2 like eman says which I always do (I use a charted coefficient to track based on my doses, amount of test used and blood results) 5 weeks pct on nolva 40/40/20/20/10 clomid 100/100/50/50

I have 4 baseline measurements of e2 all 24-27 range, one is natural, two are a week before a cycle after having time on + pct off and one is 5 weeks post pct. All morning fasted samples and a normal sleep.

The main reason for the AI was to do two weeks, quit for two and get an e2 retest. The reason I wanted action is primarily my libido and I’d prefer the risk of it being crashed rather than gyno symptoms developing if it’s left elevated. Hard to notice as holding a little more fat as it was a bulk cycle. Abs still visible but blurred.

I guess what happens to the bound e2 when discontinuing adex and why hasn’t it come down 6 weeks after finishing pct the same as indicated by my last post cycle bloods?

 

[Type-IIx]

Thanks so:

Running test/tren E, 2 week clear esters before pct, the week before starting pct I discontinued adex so as not to crash e2 like eman says which I always do (I use a charted coefficient to track based on my doses, amount of test used and blood results) 5 weeks pct on nolva 40/40/20/20/10 clomid 100/100/50/50

I have 4 baseline measurements of e2 all 24-27 range, one is natural, two are a week before a cycle after having time on + pct off and one is 5 weeks post pct. All morning fasted samples and a normal sleep.

The main reason for the AI was to do two weeks, quit for two and get an e2 retest. The reason I wanted action is primarily my libido and I’d prefer the risk of it being crashed rather than gyno symptoms developing if it’s left elevated. Hard to notice as holding a little more fat as it was a bulk cycle. Abs still visible but blurred.

I guess what happens to the bound e2 when discontinuing adex and why hasn’t it come down 6 weeks after finishing pct the same as indicated by my last post cycle bloods?

If it's correct that it has been 13 weeks since your last pin, then I suspect your Leydig cells (testes) are functioning to produce T. AIs are very good at blocking aromatase action (T to E2, aromatization) with exogenous testosterone. They are very poor at achieving full E2 suppression, given that last bit of aromatization occurs from T production in testes. This is my understanding. Thus, I would say, that it is safe to remove the AI, despite short-term dysregulation, the purpose of getting the testes producing T has been accomplished. At this point, your testes are likely producing T, and you are merely adding to the production of T.

What are your FSH & LH values? TBH this is really in medical qualifications territory. I am just giving you my theoretical understanding.

 

[Mrbarbells]

That is correct yes, last pin was towards the end of august.. So you’re saying the exo test will have effectively been soaked up with the small amount of ai use the past few days and the natural test will convert as usual which will bring my e2 back to whatever is a normal range for the current test level.

FSH 3.22 IU (previously 2.96)
LH 8.15IU (previously 7.43)

 

[Type-IIx]

That is correct yes, last pin was towards the end of august.. So you’re saying the exo test will have effectively been soaked up with the small amount of ai use the past few days and the natural test will convert as usual which will bring my e2 back to whatever is a normal range for the current test level.

FSH 3.22 IU (previously 2.96)
LH 8.15IU (previously 7.43)

I believe that at this point you're just using the AI as a test booster supplement. Your HPG axis is functioning on its own, better to drop the AI and let your natural test increase without any exogenous stimulation.

 

[Mrbarbells]

Thanks I’ll do my last dose today and retest in two weeks

 

[Mac11wildcat]

What likely happened here is your e2 was high but because elevated test kept the ratio right enough you weren’t bothered. You dropped the test but didn’t knock e2 down with it.

your bloodwork shows you’re recovered function which is excellent.

 

[Mrbarbells]

What likely happened here is your e2 was high but because elevated test kept the ratio right enough you weren’t bothered. You dropped the test but didn’t knock e2 down with it.

your bloodwork shows you’re recovered function which is excellent.

This makes the most sense to me, I wouldn’t have thought e2 would have stayed this high for this long post pct.. I thought it would of reduced itself quite quickly without test but I guess natural test is still aromatising(?) and the circulating e2 fills all the receptors so it takes longer to come down.. But that’s me guessing.

Shows the importance of bloods either way.

 

[GuerillaPete]

This makes the most sense to me, I wouldn’t have thought e2 would have stayed this high for this long post pct.. I thought it would of reduced itself quite quickly without test but I guess natural test is still aromatising(?) and the circulating e2 fills all the receptors so it takes longer to come down.. But that’s me guessing.

Shows the importance of bloods either way.

Its a thing i also practice when going from blast to cruise i hit the ai hard to get estrogen low to match the now low test levels!
Would be the same for pct!
I also experienced estro rebound when not doing so!
Ai on pct is not outdated its a new thing its not just to force the body to produce test (witch is a benefit) but more so to get better estrogen to testosterone ratio!
I mean why would some one want to have a bad ratio on pct and high e?
Makes no sense since high E is supressive and comes with sides especially when low test and bad ratio!