Ethyl Oleate

[Fullchamber]

Hey guys!
So I was reading the post of the products manager of Pharmacom labs. And he mentioned that their injectable steroids contain 5%-10% ETHYL OLEATE. I watched Vigorous Steve video not too long ago and he emphasized on steering clear from any product that contains ethyl oleate since it’s very harmful to human body and can literally dissolve from inside over a prolong use of it.
Any takes on it?

 

[JeffroCat]

Hey guys!
So I was reading the post of the products manager of Pharmacom labs. And he mentioned that their injectable steroids contain 5%-10% ETHYL OLEATE. I watched Vigorous Steve video not too long ago and he emphasized on steering clear from any product that contains ethyl oleate since it’s very harmful to human body and can literally dissolve from inside over a prolong use of it.
Any takes on it?

Don't take advice from Dr. Vigorous Steve, or any other weirdo on YouTube who hides out in Thailand and practices medicine without a license.

 

[Sector]

I cant speak much on EO, only to say that a few years ago most sources were running EO oil in their products. Didn't have any negative sides from it to speak on. Seems like MCT or GSO seems to be the newer tech oil nowadays.

I'm a big fan of MCT oil. Very thin, relatively PIP-less

 

[Zebedee]

Don't take advice from Dr. Vigorous Steve, or any other weirdo on YouTube who hides out in Thailand and practices medicine without a license.

I’m still waiting to see someone post peer-reviewed research showing that injecting EO in small amounts is harmful. I’m not saying it isn’t, just that everyone who claims it’s really bad for you (including Vigorous Steve) never shows supporting evidence.

As for Vigorous Steve himself, his carrier oils vid is so poorly researched that he lists the viscosity of MCT as “unknown”, something that discoverable in a couple of minutes via Google.

 

[DerTeufel]

for some odd reason my skin has always turned red and tender whenever I've used anything with EO in it. My very first cycle, the source was using EO as a carrier oil, and I would always get awful PIP and then some redness. It almost put me off ever trying the stuff ever again hah

Now of course I'm only speaking for myself. I personally haven't seen a ton of stuff that says EO is objectively more dangerous than any other oil.

 

[Fullchamber]

I have confirmed with Ace via email and they only use GSO with no other synthetic oils. And just for that reason I’ll be buying injectables from them. Health is important guys. Don’t settle for iffy shid.

 

[PaintDrinker]

I quick Google search and I came up with this.

Ethyl oleate is used by compounding pharmacies as a vehicle for intramuscular drug delivery, in some cases to prepare the daily doses of progesterone in support of pregnancy. Studies that document the safe use of ethyl oleate in pregnancy for both the mother and the fetus have never been performed

 

[grey]

very harmful to human body and can literally dissolve from inside over a prolong use of it.

That video was one of Steve's dumbest ever. Rub literally any oil on a syringe and the marking come off... This doesn't mean it will "dissolve you from the inside!!!!!!"

No different folks react better or worse to certain carriers over others. Only way to know that is for you to try it.

 

[Fullchamber]

That video was one of Steve's dumbest ever. Rub literally any oil on a syringe and the marking come off... This doesn't mean it will "dissolve you from the inside!!!!!!"

No different folks react better or worse to certain carriers over others. Only way to know that is for you to try it.

I read some article and it said something along the lines that EO can dissolve certain rubber materials. If it can dissolve the rubber on the plunger then it can also ruin your internal organs over a long exposure to it.

 

[grey]

I read some article and it said something along the lines that EO can dissolve certain rubber materials

Are you made of rubber or PFTE?

How long do you think a lipid oil will be staying in your body?

Do you see people dropping over from USP preps dissolving their organs?

JFC, just go back to Reddit. I am sure they would love to reinforce these sorts of idiot notions.

 

[Eddie.]

I think truth lies somewhere in the middle. By allowing pharmaceuticals adding EO in some countries (i think it doesn't apply worldwide) it doesn't mean it's not inflammatory. After the vaxx joke i just don't trust anyone 100%.

The best you can do is to place a small order, try it for a month and if you tolerating ok just do a CRP and if it's normal then you can stick with it with no issues. While most of us could agree that synthetic oils might be inferior than organic ones, Vigorous is exaggerating way too much for certain things.

You try it, if it's ok you stick with it..if it causes inflammation and you wanna keep using it then you're just dumb, it's that simple.

 

[grey]

After the vaxx joke i just don't trust anyone 100%.

Me either... but "I read an article somewhere." is no basis for anything.

Testing which carriers work for individuals makes sense.

 

[Fullchamber]

Me either... but "I read an article somewhere." is no basis for anything.

Testing which carriers work for individuals makes sense.

So you are easily disregarding some researched article?! I guess, you like to put things in your body first before you do any research. Good luck

 

[grey]

So you are easily disregarding some researched article?

The one you "you read" didn't post and we have nothing to go one about?

Yes. I am in fact disregarding this article.


Is today your first day online?

Claims require proof. Extraordinary claims require even greater proof to meet the burden of becoming "well researched".

There are T-Nation joke articles that currently have better proofs than your thread here does.

 

[Fullchamber]

The one you "you read" didn't post and we have nothing to go one about?

Yes. I am in fact disregarding this article.


Is today your first day online?

Claims require proof. Extraordinary claims require even greater proof to meet the burden of becoming "well researched".

There are T-Nation joke articles that currently have better proofs than your thread here does.

I am not claiming anything. Just saying what I read and what Steve said and based on both I have realized that EO isn’t good for internal for a long period of use and I would personally avoid it. Now it’s up to you do whatever you like. I personally don’t wanna mess up my organs.

 

[grey]

Just saying what I read

Well how could anyone possibly discount such a powerful argument?

Some dude read something somewhere.

Seriously, Reddit is missing a Redditor.

 

[Fullchamber]

Well how could anyone possibly discount such a powerful argument?

Some dude read something somewhere.

Seriously, Reddit is missing a Redditor.

Do what you want. I wasn’t here to PROVE that EO is harmful. I was just asking for an advice and asking if a specific brand uses it or not. My thread is not an educational thread. Do whatever you want with your body. Idc.

 

[psauce]

There are a couple of different moving parts here.

One: EO isn't the most widely used solvent for lipophilic delivery, but it's pretty commonly used. If a few drops of it meant grim death, we would know about it by now from the (non-underground) medical community.

Two: We will never get sufficiently powered, well-controlled, scientific data on these questions. That's because no one is going to fund or perform a study of the carrier oils that illegal drug users are exposing themselves to when there's cancer to treat and babies to save.

Three: That means, in the absence of rigorous science, we have to be as careful as we can with documenting our own experiences. Some people seem to tolerate EO fine, even when it's the sole carrier oil and not an excipient. Some people take it like a gut punch. Our collective, anecdotal experience tells us that solvents and excipients are a YMMV proposition, so expect to do experiments of N=1 or just find one method that works and restrict yourself to those products only.

The point about EO dissolving plastic and that demonstrating a toxic effect... I think I like and respect Steve more than a lot of people, but that was a cringeworthy moment. Know what dissolves almost all of your biomolecules? Water. THE FUCKING HORROR! Good thing it does, too...

 

[grey]

Two: We will never get sufficiently powered, well-controlled, scientific data on these questions.

EO was studied with no problems when it was included for USP. It's pH is known, it saponification is known (these are the things that would lead to tissue damage were they out of safety ranges BTW).

The monograph for the USP is here:

http://ftp.uspbpep.com/v29240/usp29nf24s0_m31920.html

The ranges and reasonings for those ranges are all linked and cited from the monograph.

It has also been studied (multiple times) for oral use and is safe to jam right down our gullets and into our liver:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12662915/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27374194/

Similarly it was studied as a carrier for injectables as far back as 1953:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/13068414/

But injecting it right into the heart tissue (especially of newborns) is likely a bad idea (not sure who would be shocked by that though):

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8656641/

So yes, we aren't likely to see any huge new studies on EO because to be very frank it has already been studied with nothing but boringly safe results (aside from the batshit dudes injecting it into heart tissue anyway).

 

[psauce]

EO was studied with no problems when it was included for USP. It's pH is known, it saponification is known (these are the things that would lead to tissue damage were they out of safety ranges BTW).

The monograph for the USP is here:

http://ftp.uspbpep.com/v29240/usp29nf24s0_m31920.html

The ranges and reasonings for those ranges are all linked and cited from the monograph.

It has also been studied (multiple times) for oral use and is safe to jam right down our gullets and into our liver:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12662915/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27374194/

Similarly it was studied as a carrier for injectables as far back as 1953:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/13068414/

But injecting it right into the heart tissue (especially of newborns) is likely a bad idea (not sure who would be shocked by that though):

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8656641/

So yes, we aren't likely to see any huge new studies on EO because to be very frank it has already been studied with nothing but boringly safe results (aside from the batshit dudes injecting it into heart tissue anyway).

I'm aware of what you're saying, I think we agree on essentially everything if we were to discuss this in real-time chat.

What I wanted to underscore is that the intended use case of EO is what we have rock solid medical data on. We're diverging from that, we're continuing use after a subject would be removed, we're dosing higher, etc.

I think portions of the community are way to alarmist on it, and I think some people want to discount any potential danger. I don't think we have the appropriate science to do either of those things. It's really a modest, milquetoast position.