Female Peptide Protocol

[Stealth500]

Wanted to start an open discussion about the best options for female peptide protocols. Some women here compete and some men have wives and girlfriends who compete.

As we know, women competing in bodybuilding face the risk of virilization when using anabolic steroids. As an alternative to mitigate these potential adverse effects, peptides are a tool that can be utilized.


A significant number of male bodybuilders, myself included, utilize recombinant human growth hormone (rhGH) daily. However, research indicates that women tend to be less responsive to rhGH.


Studies show that when women receive nearly double the dosage of rhGH compared to men, they do not achieve equivalent responses in terms of IGF-I levels, body composition, and bone density. This suggests that simply increasing the dosage for women may not yield the same benefits observed in men. The differences in response may be attributed to hormonal variations and individual physiology, indicating that women may not experience the same advantages from GH therapy, even at higher doses.


For premenopausal women using growth hormone (GH) secretagogues may make sense for some women due to their naturally higher endogenous GH levels compared to men, as these secretagogues aim to stimulate the body's own production of GH.


HGH peptides stimulate the pituitary gland to enhance natural (endogenous) growth hormone production. These peptides act as biological messengers, improving various bodily processes, including cell growth and tissue repair. Growth Hormone-Releasing Peptides (GHRP) and Growth Hormone-Releasing Hormone (GHRH) are classified as secretagogues because they promote the secretion of growth hormone from the pituitary gland. GHRP targets the ghrelin receptor, while GHRH interacts with its specific receptor to facilitate GH release.


For women in bodybuilding, the use of fat-burning agents such as clenbuterol can lead to negative cardiovascular effects, particularly with long-term or repeated abuse.


With the increasing availability of various GLP-1 receptor agonists to combine with secretagogues, new options are available to reduce hunger and body fat by allowing easier adherence to a strict diet.


Adherence to a strict diet can lead to an increase in cortisol levels, which may contribute to a less lean appearance. Elevated cortisol can affect metabolism and fat distribution as a response to low energy availability. This response is part of the body's mechanism to maintain blood glucose levels and manage stress.


Retatrutide primarily mimics gut hormones to regulate blood sugar and appetite, while growth hormone secretagogues (GHS) stimulate the release of growth hormone. The concurrent use of both may not necessarily negate each other's effects, but their combined impact on metabolism and appetite regulation could differ.


Given the wealth of information available, and the amount of misinformation online. I would like to leverage our collective knowledge to address the following questions for the benefit of female competitors:


What secretagogue and GLP-1 protocols will yield the most significant improvements in lean muscle mass for women while mitigating potential negative side effects?


How can we optimize meal timing and training schedules to maximize the effectiveness of these dosing protocols?


For instance, tesamorelin and ipamorelin can work synergistically to enhance growth hormone stimulation, potentially leading to improved metabolic effects and reduced side effects compared to traditional growth hormone therapies. Their combined use may result in more sustained and controlled growth hormone release. Additionally, retatrutide may help counteract hunger signals that could be influenced by tesamorelin and ipamorelin.


Understanding that meal timing is crucial when using secretagogues as opposed to rhGH, I propose the following theoretical peptide protocol and meal timing strategy for a female bikini model competitor:


Proposed Protocol:


-Weekly minimal Dose of Retatrutide on monday-


Monday to Friday


7:00 AM: Eat breakfast


9:00 AM: Daily peptide dosage


1-2 mg of tesamorelin


200-300 mcg of ipamorelin


11:00 AM - 12:00 PM: Training session


12:00 PM: Meal immediately after training


This hypothetical protocol emphasizes dosing before training to maximize benefits. I welcome constructive criticism and insights to refine this approach further.

 

[Type-IIx]

It’s fine, your reasoning is mostly sound. You’ll be surprised to learn though that there’s no robust evidence that preworkout timing is beneficial for these growth factors. If taking only a single daily bolus (not recommended), then like GH, nighttime administration tends to be superior for exercise performance, recovery, sleep, anticatabolism, metabolic effects (sparing protein, carbohydrate preference).

Combining a GHS-R agonist and GHRH-R agonist as you’ve done is good.

Bioavailability however is low, and affected by feeding and nutritional status — another consideration!

I’ll be going over these considerations and giving worked examples including for women in a symposium about this.

 

[Stealth500]

It’s fine, your reasoning is mostly sound. You’ll be surprised to learn though that there’s no robust evidence that preworkout timing is beneficial for these growth factors. If taking only a single daily bolus (not recommended), then like GH, nighttime administration tends to be superior for exercise performance, recovery, sleep, anticatabolism, metabolic effects (sparing protein, carbohydrate preference).

Combining a GHS-R agonist and GHRH-R agonist as you’ve done is good.

Bioavailability however is low, and affected by feeding and nutritional status — another consideration!

I’ll be going over these considerations and giving worked examples including for women in a symposium about this.

my personal use experience with secretagogues is anecdotal at best.

I'm going to continue reading to attempt to find the best solution for muscle proliferation without aas.
I believe tesamorelin may not be the best choice to match with a ghrelin agonist for this purpose.

For men, there are so many tools at our disposal. For women, the options are more limited. Low dose oxandrolone gives great immediate results. But how many times can a woman pull that lever before it catches up?

I see women who are natural, work their ass off, compete for years, maintain a strict diet counting every calorie. New girls come on the scene, trained for a year or two, and get a pro card, basically coming out of nowhere. Where I am they work with a couple of trainers in nearby countries. They look amazing—properly shredded, with puffy shoulders, pumped glutes, and all the features the judges look for. Their trainers have them on HRT and low-dose anadrol. It seems a bit much for bikini, but their physiques before and after are night and day.

when you mentioned about the conclusions one may find from reading your post about IGF-I lr3 on ProM where you suggesting use with insulin?

 

[Stealth500]

If IGF-I LR3 helps increase muscle fibers, which is good for muscle growth.
Since insulin transports nutrients into muscle cells, it seems logical that it could enhance the effects of LR3 IGF-I. Combining them could lead to better muscle growth.
You stated LR3 IGF-I has a short half-life. (2hrs) so taking it frequently with insulin around workouts or rather possibly before a post workout meal might maximize the benefits.

You had mentioned to one user this protocol was likely not in their best interest. I'm guessing because it would require strict adherence to meal timing and dosage protocols only a professional would follow.

 

[Stealth500]

The study below examined how GH affects IGF-I levels in men and women with GH deficiency. It found that women produce more GH than men but have lower IGF-I levels, indicating a weaker response to GH. Women needed higher doses of rhGH to achieve normal IGF-I levels, especially if they were on estrogen treatment. In contrast, men on testosterone showed improved responsiveness to rhGH over time. The results suggest that gender differences in GH treatment could lead to women being undertreated and men being overtreated.

Gender difference in insulin-like growth factor I response to growth hormone (GH) treatment in GH-deficient adults: role of sex hormone replacement - PubMed

GH production in healthy women is about thrice that in men. Yet insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) levels are similar, suggesting a lower responsivity to GH in women. In untreated GH-deficient adults, basal IGF-I levels are reportedly lower in females than in males, and the therapeutic...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

the findings of the study could suggest that women with GH deficiency might benefit from supplemental exogenous IGF-1. Since women showed a lower response to growth hormone and required higher doses of synthetic GH to achieve normal IGF-I levels, providing IGF-1 directly could potentially help improve their IGF-I levels more effectively without requiring such high doses.

 

[AlexDavis43]

If IGF-I LR3 helps increase muscle fibers, which is good for muscle growth.
Since insulin transports nutrients into muscle cells, it seems logical that it could enhance the effects of LR3 IGF-I. Combining them could lead to better muscle growth.
You stated LR3 IGF-I has a short half-life. (2hrs) so taking it frequently with insulin around workouts or rather possibly before a post workout meal might maximize the benefits.

You had mentioned to one user this protocol was likely not in their best interest. I'm guessing because it would require strict adherence to meal timing and dosage protocols only a professional would follow.

I am a big fan of LR3. Maybe it doesn't cause net scientific muscle hypertrophy, but damn pumps feel like it.

disclaimer: I dose it at like 0.25-0.5 mg, once per day

 

[Stealth500]

I am a big fan of LR3. Maybe it doesn't cause net scientific muscle hypertrophy, but damn pumps feel like it.

disclaimer: I dose it at like 0.25-0.5 mg, once per day

i think to have actual muscle regeneratation it requires insulin to interact with the igfb proteins its resistant to binding with. not clear on this yet.

 

[Stealth500]

but damn pumps feel like it.

been reading this in a few places also. gonna give it a whirl myself.

 

[Here2Learn]

If a woman is wanting to start HGh do you think she needs to run bloodwork prior to like you would with aas? If so, what are you looking for?

 

[Stealth500]

If a woman is wanting to start HGh do you think she needs to run bloodwork prior to like you would with aas? If so, what are you looking for?

I'm not a doctor but cancer markers is the first thing comes to mind.

 

[Stealth500]

The thought I'm currently stewing on.

IGFBPs (Insulin-like Growth Factor Binding Proteins) regulate the activity of IGFs (Insulin-like Growth Factors) in the body, influencing muscle growth and recovery. Substances with low binding affinity to IGFBPs can limit the effectiveness of IGFs, leading to reduced anabolic effects, shorter half-lives, and potential hormonal imbalances.


Exogenous insulin can enhance the effects of these substances by increasing the availability of free IGF and stimulating IGF production. However, using insulin carries risks, such as hypoglycemia and metabolic issues.


Retatrutide, a GLP-1 receptor agonist, can improve insulin sensitivity by enhancing glucose-dependent insulin secretion and promoting weight loss, which may further optimize the anabolic environment for muscle growth.


In this context, IGF-1 LR3, an exogenous IGF-1 peptide, may interact positively with insulin by amplifying its anabolic effects, especially in an insulin-sensitive individual. When combined with retatrutide and well-timed carbohydrate consumption, this approach could enhance nutrient uptake and support muscle growth and recovery while maintaining metabolic health, all without the dangers associated with exogenous insulin.

Then switch the initial secretagogue protocol to the evening as recommended.

 

[Stealth500]

switching the secretagogue protocol to the evening would mean eating the last meal 2-3 hours prior to administration i believe. Even consuming protein could stimulate insulin release, which might affect GH signaling.

 

[Type-IIx]

If a woman is wanting to start HGh do you think she needs to run bloodwork prior to like you would with aas? If so, what are you looking for?

Yes, base-line bloodwork is the most important data-point to assess dose/response.

Here's a good post where I make an effort to pull together topical items for women on GH: https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/female-introduction-post.134418872/post-3172951

Here's something I wrote about the topic, jeez, back in 2021: Women and rhGH: Misconceptions abound

And here's basically a worked example where I illustrate dosing strategy for females: Hgh brand for women

 

[Stealth500]

In this context, IGF-1 LR3, an exogenous IGF-1 peptide, may interact positively with insulin by amplifying its anabolic effects,

The main factor that increases IGFBP-3 serum levels is growth hormone (GH)

this following study on severely burned children utilized recombinant IGF-1 combined with IGFBP-3 which became available for clinical study.

Muscle Protein Catabolism After Severe Burn: Effects of IGF-1/IGFBP-3 Treatment - PMC

To determine the effects of recombinant human insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) complexed with its principal binding protein, IGFBP-3, on skeletal muscle metabolism in severely burned children. Severe burns are associated with a persistent ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It showed no correlation to muscle proliferation in children with high serum insulin levels and rhIGF-1. discrediting the above theory on insulin dynamics.

 

[Here2Learn]

Yes, base-line bloodwork is the most important data-point to assess dose/response.

Here's a good post where I make an effort to pull together topical items for women on GH: Female introduction post

Here's something I wrote about the topic, jeez, back in 2021: Women and rhGH: Misconceptions abound

And here's basically a worked example where I illustrate dosing strategy for females: Hgh brand for women

I had assumed, without clarifying, that your book would not cover anything having to do with women. Good to know it does!

 

[Stealth500]

Here's something I wrote about the topic, jeez, back in 2021: Women and rhGH: Misconceptions abound

yes, hence why i made an "open discussion" thread.

 

[Stealth500]

rhGH and IGF-I


TL;DR


Notes from reading about the roles of Growth Hormone (GH) and Insulin-like Growth Factor 1 (IGF-I) in muscle growth and their regulatory feedback mechanisms. Elevated levels from exogenous supplementation can lead to negative effects, including hormonal imbalances, insulin resistance, fluid retention, joint pain, and increased cancer risk, particularly with long-term or high-dose use. While some bodybuilders may use these hormones short-term for gains, safety concerns necessitate medical supervision. Overall, caution is advised due to the potential health risks associated with GH and IGF-I use.


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Growth Hormone (GH) and Insulin-like Growth Factor 1 (IGF-I) work together to promote growth and muscle development, exhibiting synergistic effects that enhance each other's actions. However, the body regulates these hormones through a negative feedback mechanism. When the levels of IGF-I in the blood increase, they signal the pituitary gland to reduce the secretion of GH. Conversely, when GH levels rise, the liver decreases its production of IGF-I. This feedback loop is essential for maintaining hormonal balance in the body.


However, when a person supplements with both exogenous GH and IGF-I, this natural feedback mechanism is bypassed. Since the pituitary gland and liver are not required to produce these hormones in response to supplementation, both GH and IGF-I can remain elevated in the bloodstream simultaneously. This situation creates an anabolic environment, which can significantly enhance muscle growth.


secretagogues act on the pituitary gland to induce endogenous GH secretion so using them in tandem with IGF-I LR3 would be less effective than rhGH even for women because of the negative feedback control.


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if serum levels of both these hormones are increased simultaneously and we override the bodies natural feedback mechanism that maintains hormonal balance what kind of negative implications can a woman expect?


Chronic exposure to elevated hormone levels is more likely to lead to significant health issues, including hormonal imbalances, insulin resistance, cardiovascular problems, and other complications.
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can they be utilized safely for the purposes of bodybuilding short term?


While some bodybuilders may use Growth Hormone (GH) and Insulin-like Growth Factor 1 (IGF-I) for short-term gains, safety is a significant concern. Short-term use may offer benefits in muscle growth and recovery, but the long-term safety and efficacy are not well established. Lower doses may reduce the risk of adverse effects, but even short-term use can lead to side effects, making medical supervision essential. Individual responses vary, and some may experience negative effects regardless of duration.
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how serious is the risk of cancer?


The risk of cancer associated with the use of Growth Hormone (GH) and Insulin-like Growth Factor 1 (IGF-I) is a significant concern. IGF-I promotes cell growth and proliferation, which can stimulate existing tumors or increase the risk of hormone-sensitive cancers, such as breast, prostate, and colorectal cancers. While some studies suggest a link between elevated IGF-I levels and cancer risk, the evidence is not conclusive and may depend on individual factors like genetics and lifestyle. The risk is likely higher with long-term or high-dose use, as chronic exposure to elevated hormone levels can alter cellular behavior. Not everyone who uses these hormones will develop cancer, but the potential risk highlights the need for caution and medical supervision. Overall, while there is a potential cancer risk with GH and IGF-I use, particularly with prolonged use, further research is needed to fully understand this risk.

 

[Stealth500]

"has the greatest growth effect on viscera & gut size (increase to intestines weight; organomegaly)."



I think this one gets a hard pass for bikini models...