fertility and abuse.

[nicolas24]

Hello.

Im 24y and im from belgium.
i have been using cycles since im 18y old.
at age of 21 i went 1year off steroids... and i felt depressed... i had to cause of surgery on my shoulder.

Im now back on for 2years. cruise and blast.
last 2 months i have added hcg... and im now on 250mg test e.
is there a way with hcg to get back fertile or other meths and what protocol should i use?

im now on hcg 2 times a week 1500iu.
i can get nolva clomid proviron.
but its really hard to get tests in belgium



can someone give me a good hcg protocol?
and how can i get back fertile without comming off t?

 

[nicolas24]

can someone give me a good protocol?

i have acces to

hcg
hmg
clomid.


what i do best now... ill cycle till 2016 and what hcg dosages is adviced?

i think 3times 500iu is to less?

and when i come of in januari how should i pct with hmg clomid and hcg?

 

[BioChemBro]

read up on Dr Scally's Power PCT, but without blood work its pretty much a shot in the dark right now

its the thread above yours in this sub forum

 

[Eman]

Hello.

Im 24y and im from belgium.
i have been using cycles since im 18y old.
at age of 21 i went 1year off steroids... and i felt depressed... i had to cause of surgery on my shoulder.

Im now back on for 2years. cruise and blast.
last 2 months i have added hcg... and im now on 250mg test e.
is there a way with hcg to get back fertile or other meths and what protocol should i use?

im now on hcg 2 times a week 1500iu.
i can get nolva clomid proviron.
but its really hard to get tests in belgium



can someone give me a good hcg protocol?
and how can i get back fertile without comming off t?

You want to keep using testosterone that's shutting you down AND get your fertility back...?

 

[PenisSurfer]

ON CYCLE: 250-650iu hCG 2-3x per week. 1500iu, 2x per week on cycle can be too much.

PCT
For 4 weeeks only: hCG of PCT at 250-650iu hCG 2-3x per week
20mg nolvadex per day, for at least 8 weeks. You can stay on the nolvadex for months if you need it.

Toremifene is much better than nolvadex. It is less toxic.
The beneficial effects of toremifene administration on the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis and sperm parameters in men with idiopathic oligo... - PubMed - NCBI

 

[nicolas24]

ON CYCLE: 250-650iu hCG 2-3x per week. 1500iu, 2x per week on cycle can be too much.

PCT
For 4 weeeks only: hCG of PCT at 250-650iu hCG 2-3x per week
20mg nolvadex per day, for at least 8 weeks. You can stay on the nolvadex for months if you need it.

Toremifene is much better than nolvadex. It is less toxic.
The beneficial effects of toremifene administration on the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis and sperm parameters in men with idiopathic oligo... - PubMed - NCBI

ok so on cycle ill do monday wendnesfay and friday 500iu hcg.


why no clomid at power pct?

 

[PenisSurfer]

ok so on cycle ill do monday wendnesfay and friday 500iu hcg.


why no clomid at power pct?

You do not need it if you are using toremifene. I would use toremifene for as long as needed. Clomid and nolvadex are slightly toxic - they increase the risk of cancer.

 

[nicolas24]

You do not need it if you are using toremifene. I would use toremifene for as long as needed. Clomid and nolvadex are slightly toxic - they increase the risk of cancer.

i have nonacces to toremifene but my hcg protocol is good during cycle 3tims a week 500iu hcg?

 

[PenisSurfer]

i have nonacces to toremifene but my hcg protocol is good during cycle 3tims a week 500iu hcg?

Yes. Use nolvadex only for PCT, not clomid. There is no need for two SERMs. @pharmacist has toremifene. Check European pharmaceuticals

 

[nicolas24]

Yes. Use nolvadex only for PCT, not clomid. There is no need for two SERMs. @pharmacist has toremifene. Check European pharmaceuticals

and isnt hmg better than hcg for pct?

 

[Dr JIM]

ON CYCLE: 250-650iu hCG 2-3x per week. 1500iu, 2x per week on cycle can be too much.

PCT
For 4 weeeks only: hCG of PCT at 250-650iu hCG 2-3x per week
20mg nolvadex per day, for at least 8 weeks. You can stay on the nolvadex for months if you need it.

Toremifene is much better than nolvadex. It is less toxic.
The beneficial effects of toremifene administration on the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis and sperm parameters in men with idiopathic oligo... - PubMed - NCBI

Better ?
Less toxic?
Was this a comparative study?

is that what the study you posted said? NOPE

Is there a difference bt idiopathic and AIH induced oligospermia? YES!

Extrapolations such as yours leads to erroneous conclusions, such as YOURS.

Why is 1500 of HCG "to much" ?

Finally can you post data that supports your contention NOLVADEX should only be used for PCT? NOPE

You know why don't you ask the most important question like hey OP, have you OBTAINED a SPERM COUNT!

Finally GTGOOH with your BS about SERMS "increasing the risk of cancer" esp in MALES, LMFAO!

 

[Dr JIM]

Oh I'm sorry I forgot the OP who "began cycling when he was 18", and is still going strong (having not learned his lesson some SIX YEARS later), enough said.

 

[PenisSurfer]

Better ?
Less toxic?
Was this a comparative study?

is that what the study you posted said? NOPE

Is there a difference bt idiopathic and AIH induced oligospermia? YES!

Extrapolations such as yours leads to erroneous conclusions, such as YOURS.

Why is 1500 of HCG "to much" ?

Finally can you post data that supports your contention NOLVADEX should only be used for PCT? NOPE

You know why don't you ask the most important question like hey OP, have you OBTAINED a SPERM COUNT!

Finally GTGOOH with your BS about SERMS "increasing the risk of cancer" esp in MALES, LMFAO!

Comparison of DNA reactivity of the polyphenylethylene hormonal agents diethylstilbestrol, tamoxifen and toremifene in rat and hamster liver. - PubMed - NCBI

Mechanism of Lower Genotoxicity of Toremifene Compared with Tamoxifen

 

[PenisSurfer]

Better ?
Less toxic?
Was this a comparative study?

is that what the study you posted said? NOPE

Is there a difference bt idiopathic and AIH induced oligospermia? YES!

Extrapolations such as yours leads to erroneous conclusions, such as YOURS.

Why is 1500 of HCG "to much" ?

Finally can you post data that supports your contention NOLVADEX should only be used for PCT? NOPE

You know why don't you ask the most important question like hey OP, have you OBTAINED a SPERM COUNT!

Finally GTGOOH with your BS about SERMS "increasing the risk of cancer" esp in MALES, LMFAO!

OP said he doesnt have access to even the most basic tests. He also said he has MDD when off of exogenous hormones. I think a VERY conservative dose of hCG coupled with long term treatment with a SERM is the best approach for harm reduction.

That is what I would do. I am not recommending the OP do anything because I am not a doctor. Just offering what i think is the best HARM REDUCTION approach.

 

[Dr JIM]

OP said he doesnt have access to even the most basic tests. He also said he has MDD when off of exogenous hormones. I think a VERY conservative dose of hCG coupled with long term treatment with a SERM is the best approach for harm reduction.

That is what I would do. I am not recommending the OP do anything because I am not a doctor. Just offering what i think is the best HARM REDUCTION approach.

And when your "harm reduction" has no basis in MALE HUMAN studies it becomes nothing more than conjecture.

Maybe the OP should cease cycling and FU w a PHYSICIAN in Belgium!

 

[John Bahlmer]

...6 years later, after starting when your body is still developing, and you are just now wondering how to preserve your fertility. If you haven't done permanent damage to your testicles, I'm pretty sure getting off of T and getting on HcG would be a good place to start. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if someone tries HcG and their nuts don't unshrivel they passed the point of no return and now have primary hypogonadism. Use it or lose it.