First cycle advice. Bloods inside.

[skylineonfire]

Hey everyone. I'm 36, UK. Been lifting 10 years plus. Diet is decent, routine is decent gym 5x a week. I'm 175lbs at 5 foot 9. Around 14 percent BF I believe. Diet is decent but a lot of cleaning up could be done truthfully.

Looking to run my first cycle. Nothing crazy I want to start at 250mg a week, test C delivered EOD or twice a week. Run this for 16 or so weeks and see how I get on. After this either PCT off and take a break or cruise on a lower dose for a while and then go again after a break.

My bloods are attached. Had some interesting feedback about them and just curious to see if anyone here sees any red flags and has any advice. I'm here to learn respectfully and humbly and welcome all feedback good and bad.

I have high prolactin, had sex a few hours before my bloods were taken foolishly. A bit worried by my high estrogen but I'm also naturally high test so it isn't too odd no?

Again all feedback welcome thank you.

 

[adrenalytic]

I only converted your T and E. Can't be bothered to check the rest.

29 nmol/L * 28.85 = 837.65 ng/dL
171 pmol/L ≈ 627 pg/mL

Assuming the conversion was done correctly, that is an alarmingly high E2. You should not touch a steroid until you get this addressed.

If you need another reason, your natural test is pretty good yet considering your stats, you have very little muscle. Without pics I'd even classify you as skinny fat.

250mg is a replacement dose for you. What do you think you can actually gain that you haven't been able to gain in ten years of training? Something is wrong with your training, nutrition and/or sleep cycle. May be other things going on. Not enough information.

 

[Biggerisbetternl]

Estradiol and prolactin are within normal range for female. Wait... are you?

 

[cousinmuscles]

First thing that comes to mind is, do you really want to shut down a HPTA that is still naturally pumping out 30nmol/L?

 

[atruse]

I only converted your T and E. Can't be bothered to check the rest.

29 nmol/L * 28.85 = 837.65 ng/dL
171 pmol/L ≈ 627 pg/mL

Assuming the conversion was done correctly, that is an alarmingly high E2. You should not touch a steroid until you get this addressed.

If you need another reason, your natural test is pretty good yet considering your stats, you have very little muscle. Without pics I'd even classify you as skinny fat.

250mg is a replacement dose for you. What do you think you can actually gain that you haven't been able to gain in ten years of training? Something is wrong with your training, nutrition and/or sleep cycle. May be other things going on. Not enough information.

I don’t think that conversion is correct

His e2 is more like 46 pg/ml which isn’t that wild really.
Still wouldn’t want it higher though….


Also 250mg is not a replacement dose, I run 105mg trt and my T levels are almost exactly the same as his ~900
210mg puts me well over 1500 (max assay)

My concern would be he needs an ai at 250 or that gyno monster gonna come get cha

 

[skylineonfire]

Estrogen is 47pg/ml

250 is just something I figured would be a good starting point to see how I react to exogenous test. Plus it will put me at far higher levels than my natural, especially free T from what I've read? Plus a more stable hormonal environment and the increased androgen nature of exogenous T?

I just want to push myself a bit and build a little quicker. Not getting any younger and I've had my kids and want to see how it feels and acts to run some basic smaller cycles etc.

I'm not huge no and don't want to be but I'd like to pack on a good 15lbs if I can.

Not the biggest guy no but I don't think I'm particularly under developed or skinny fat either.

 

[Biggerisbetternl]

Estrogen is 47pg/ml

250 is just something I figured would be a good starting point to see how I react to exogenous test. Plus it will put me at far higher levels than my natural, especially free T from what I've read? Plus a more stable hormonal environment and the increased androgen nature of exogenous T?

I just want to push myself a bit and build a little quicker. Not getting any younger and I've had my kids and want to see how it feels and acts to run some basic smaller cycles etc.

I'm not huge no and don't want to be but I'd like to pack on a good 15lbs if I can.

Not the biggest guy no but I don't think I'm particularly under developed or skinny fat either.

View attachment 368133

My bad, didn't realize its possible for men to have high E and Prl like that. Is it an option to discuss the labs with a endocrinologist?

 

[atruse]

Just keep an AI on hand or primo/eq
You’ll likely need it

Blast away

 

[skylineonfire]

My bad, didn't realize its possible for men to have high E and Prl like that. Is it an option to discuss the labs with a endocrinologist?

My estrogen isn't that high considering where my test levels are is it? Other feedback I've had has said that the ratios are perfectly healthy etc. I'm high T so it's higher estrogen naturally? The prolactin again was because I had sex a few hours before my bloods unfortunately.

 

[adrenalytic]

Estrogen is 47pg/ml

250 is just something I figured would be a good starting point to see how I react to exogenous test. Plus it will put me at far higher levels than my natural, especially free T from what I've read? Plus a more stable hormonal environment and the increased androgen nature of exogenous T?

I just want to push myself a bit and build a little quicker. Not getting any younger and I've had my kids and want to see how it feels and acts to run some basic smaller cycles etc.

I'm not huge no and don't want to be but I'd like to pack on a good 15lbs if I can.

Not the biggest guy no but I don't think I'm particularly under developed or skinny fat either.

View attachment 368133

gotcha. Pics are a big help. ONly reason I guessed skinny fat is I am also same height and have been around 180 lbs. but much lower bf% and had only average muscle size at the time. You're 175 but have a nicely developed upper body. Do you not train legs?

Also 250mg is not a replacement dose, I run 105mg trt and my T levels are almost exactly the same as his ~900
210mg puts me well over 1500 (max assay)

Everyone is different. 210 puts me in the 900s. My point was that his natty levels are fantastic to continue pushing food as the main anabolic driver. If he has peaked out genetically that's one thing but I don't think he's there yet.

 

[Biggerisbetternl]

My estrogen isn't that high considering where my test levels are is it? Other feedback I've had has said that the ratios are perfectly healthy etc. I'm high T so it's higher estrogen naturally? The prolactin again was because I had sex a few hours before my bloods unfortunately.

Okay, I did not realize prl is raised after sex. Feeling kinda dumb now.. It does make sense if you put it like that.
About estradiol being high with high test levels, is not what I would expect. If you have high test, then I'd assume you're a low aromatiser. But if your E is also on the high end, that must means you are just producing alot of total androgens of which some is aromatised, right?

 

[cousinmuscles]

Estrogen is 47pg/ml

250 is just something I figured would be a good starting point to see how I react to exogenous test. Plus it will put me at far higher levels than my natural, especially free T from what I've read? Plus a more stable hormonal environment and the increased androgen nature of exogenous T?

I just want to push myself a bit and build a little quicker. Not getting any younger and I've had my kids and want to see how it feels and acts to run some basic smaller cycles etc.

I'm not huge no and don't want to be but I'd like to pack on a good 15lbs if I can.

Not the biggest guy no but I don't think I'm particularly under developed or skinny fat either.

View attachment 368133

Good job on what you have achieved already.
For your goals IMO it is not worth using AAS, unless you want to stay on forever. With 30nmol/L naturally, I am sceptical if you really want to stay on exogenous testosterone forever.

If you do a cycle and then PCT off, you are putting your body on a lot of stress and your natural T levels will not be the same as before, sometimes people survive the bullet but nobody does with repeated cycles and PCTs.

If you do a cycle and then PCT, you will have a hard time retaining those gains, especially if you haven't maxed out your diet, training and recovery capabilties. Even worse, you will be fighting to hold on to gains with a less powerful HPTA.

Taking all these risks for a 250mg cycle is not worth it IMO.

I would suggest you go balls to the walls with training and diet, try some HGH to help you with body composition. Time your meals right, cut down unnecessary sugars, saturated fats and weird additives, constant protein synthesis, great blood glucose control, progressive overload, heavy compound lifts, live and breathe the lifestyle. In the end, if you did go the AAS route, you would have to do this anyway.

 

[Cman90]

Estrogen is 47pg/ml

250 is just something I figured would be a good starting point to see how I react to exogenous test. Plus it will put me at far higher levels than my natural, especially free T from what I've read? Plus a more stable hormonal environment and the increased androgen nature of exogenous T?

I just want to push myself a bit and build a little quicker. Not getting any younger and I've had my kids and want to see how it feels and acts to run some basic smaller cycles etc.

I'm not huge no and don't want to be but I'd like to pack on a good 15lbs if I can.

Not the biggest guy no but I don't think I'm particularly under developed or skinny fat either.

View attachment 368133

You've got a good frame, you could pack on some quality lean tissue with an actual blast.

Like these guys said, you have very good natural T, especially for your age. It might not be wise to crush it. It may never come back.

My first cycle after PCT I went from 700 ng/dl natural T to 400 ng/dl. Lost all the gains I made and felt like shit for moths. Never went above 440 ng/dl again, even after several years.

I agree that 250mg is basically a replacement dose for you. Not worth it. If you want to actually pack on some size you'll need around double that. If you are planning to PCT fully off, you'll lose most of the gains any way. So again, not worth it.

The only way it makes sense is if you are committed to being on TRT for the rest of your life and plan to run supraphysiological levels of testosterone.

 

[cousinmuscles]

My point was that his natty levels are fantastic to continue pushing food as the main anabolic driver. If he has peaked out genetically that's one thing but I don't think he's there yet.

I agree fully here. When I started I had 10 nmol/L and was approximately his size, about 76kg at 5ft6 with most abs visible. However I was anaemic from the low test, had trouble sleeping well, recovering from training... I would do 10 training sessions per week (weights and martial arts) in my early 20s but could barely recover from a heavy deadlift session in my late 20s with 10 nmol. Since his goal is just 15lbs I would advise the non AAS route.

 

[skylineonfire]

Okay, I did not realize prl is raised after sex. Feeling kinda dumb now.. It does make sense if you put it like that.
About estradiol being high with high test levels, is not what I would expect. If you have high test, then I'd assume you're a low aromatiser. But if your E is also on the high end, that must means you are just producing alot of total androgens of which some is aromatised, right?

I was told and read there's a correlation between high test and high estrogen. And I don't think there's any correlation between high test and low aromatiser, that's just something else linked to genetics, bodyfat etc?

 

[Slowww]

I don’t think that level of test correlates to that level of estrogen. That is like estrogen I would see with over 1,500 test and feel comfortable with. E2 mildly out of reference range with test mildly above reference range. If you don’t have any sides though that’s fine but perhaps it’s a sign aromatization might be on the high end for you.

I think for a lot of guys 250 is well above a replacement dose, and it will max out the test on a normal blood assay. even then if you just want to do a one off cycle and youre committed to the entire process, more is going to be needed to get 15 legit pounds of muscle the first cycle

 

[skylineonfire]

Good job on what you have achieved already.
For your goals IMO it is not worth using AAS, unless you want to stay on forever. With 30nmol/L naturally, I am sceptical if you really want to stay on exogenous testosterone forever.

If you do a cycle and then PCT off, you are putting your body on a lot of stress and your natural T levels will not be the same as before, sometimes people survive the bullet but nobody does with repeated cycles and PCTs.

If you do a cycle and then PCT, you will have a hard time retaining those gains, especially if you haven't maxed out your diet, training and recovery capabilties. Even worse, you will be fighting to hold on to gains with a less powerful HPTA.

Taking all these risks for a 250mg cycle is not worth it IMO.

I would suggest you go balls to the walls with training and diet, try some HGH to help you with body composition. Time your meals right, cut down unnecessary sugars, saturated fats and weird additives, constant protein synthesis, great blood glucose control, progressive overload, heavy compound lifts, live and breathe the lifestyle. In the end, if you did go the AAS route, you would have to do this anyway.

Thanks for this. I do see your point. Until I got my bloods I had no idea I'd be this high. It really changed my perspective because I was at first thinking just TRT and blast and cruise basically.

I guess it's because I'm 36 and I feel like my best days are behind me in terms of building muscle. And that the extra boost of AAS would let me enjoy being in my prime a bit more while I still can if that makes sense.