First Cycle - Need PCT Help For Unusual Bloods

[K0balt]

Hello, new member here on Meso but longtime lurker. After a lot of deliberation with myself I've decided to pull the trigger on my first cycle. I'm still relatively young, and I know Meso is mostly a damage control based board from what I've seen. But I believe that in my personal situation the benefits of gear for my future will outweigh the cons. Before you pass judgment on me I'd appreciate if you read my first post
HERE

So I've ran some blood tests pre-cycle and sought professional guidance. My test levels came back in the 700 range which I suppose is just about normal for someone my age. But my estradiol is at 41. How would this affect me cycle-wise? Should I plan my PCT differently?

I plan on running a standard Test C, Dbol cycle for 10-12 weeks. I have Arimidex, Clomid, Nolvadex, and HCG on hand.
Any advice would be really appreciated, thank you.

 

[Dr JIM]

If your "future" is dependent upon cycling AAS your in trouble already.

Heck you have a TT of 700ng/dl!!!!!

Finally if you're already mentions your AGE before I do, I know for sure you are to young to cycle, esp in the absence of a WO history, stated goals, or current stats.

Give it at least another year!

Good luck.

 

[Sk8man101]

Damn 700+ is a good number I wouldn't want to risk fucking it up.

Good luck though.

 

[K0balt]

If your "future" is dependent upon cycling AAS your in trouble already.

Heck you have a TT of 700ng/dl!!!!!

Finally if you're already mentions your AGE before I do, I know for sure you are to young to cycle, esp in the absence of a WO history, stated goals, or current stats.

Give it at least another year!

Good luck.

@Dr JIM
I realize that you're a valuable member on this board, so I say this with all due respect...it's a bit ignorant and unfair of you to say you know for sure I'm not ready to cycle, and site the fact that I didn't post stats or workout history. Especially after I include all of that in the link to my first post, hence why I said "I'd appreciate if you read this before passing judgment on me."

I know that I'm young, and probably seem like a clown to anyone reading this just because I'm new. But I don't think it's right for you to chalk me down with the legions of other 20-some year olds who come here taking this decision lightly, just because the popular answer is to say: "You're too young. Go eat more for a couple years, junior." I don't claim to be an exception to any rule, but my situation is a bit different. I explained it all in detail in my first post and didn't feel the need to waste everyone's time posting it here again.

It is an exaggeration for me to say that my future depends on AAS, but I didn't exactly say it like that nor did I mean it that way. I've trained with people who are today professional athletes, and I feel like there's much more I can achieve. But because of a stomach condition it's increasingly difficult for me to put on more weight. I've done it despite my limits, but now I've been stuck for a very long time. I could be missing out on the opportunity to achieve much more now while I'm still young. And every doctor I've gone to just tells me to be satisfied with where I am now.

 

[K0balt]

Damn 700+ is a good number I wouldn't want to risk fucking it up.

Good luck though.

@Sk8man101
Thanks for the reply, I also think 700 is a high number. But from what I understand it's also an average number for someone my age. From what I understand an estrogen level of 41 is also high though. And there's also other factors involved. I feel that if I can do this the right way it would benefit me a lot, I've already made the decision. I'd just like to know what sort of PCT and AI I should run, and if I should dose/plan it differently based on my blood levels. I know that nobody here owes me shit, but I would appreciate the help. If not then I sincerely thank you for your time either way.

 

[Dr JIM]

@Dr JIM

And every doctor I've gone to just tells me to be satisfied with where I am now.

Ah but those doctors are rightfully referring to your endocrine system and is predicated on your belief "things" will improve if you try to fix that which is not broken.

So tell me what's WRONG with that thought knowing your TT is 700ng/dl and your hormonal system is functioning perfectly.

IME the majority of youngsters use AAS prematurely wo
understanding where they are, or where they are going, looking for PEDs to reach an undefined higher level of satisfaction with life itself, and that majority are fortunate their experiment is short lived.

Good luck

 

[Sk8man101]

I realize that you're a valuable member on this board, so I say this with all due respect...it's a bit ignorant and unfair of you to say you know for sure I'm not ready to cycle

Hahahahaha!! Dude he's a fucking doctor. Why would he or anyone else give you a thumbs up for you to start taking illegal drugs.

NO HEALTHY PERSON is "ready" to start abusing AAS.

This is a HARM REDUCTION FORM first and foremost. Not a how to jack in 3 months forum. For people like you that don't understand that, it means the first answer to any question you have should go without saying "don't abuse AAS"

Now because of valued members like Dr. Jim and the others, meso is smart enough to realize that bodybuilders, regardless of any age, are going to use gear anyways. And they are willing to share their knowledge so we can learn how to do it in the safest possible way.

In other words: go fuck yourself.

 

[K0balt]

@Sk8man101 @Dr JIM

I made another post after my first response thanking both of you for replying to this thread and explaining a bit more, it says it's still awaiting moderator approval.

But I feel that both of you are deeply misjudging me. Yes, I'm very young. But I'm 21 years old, with a bad stomach condition, and within the reach of a career that is very dependent on my physicality. Not a highschooler trying to impress instagram bitches. It would help me greatly to gain a few pounds, but it's become impossible for me because of my condition. I'm stuck even after seeking professional medical help, and hiring a good dietician. Yet I've been acquainted with people who've had my same condition and seen some benefits from the use of AAS.

I also never disrespected either of you. I only said it's somewhat unfair for you to set your mind on giving me the same cookie cutter response everyone who's young receives here without even reading my background. That's all...I also never asked for either of you to go fuck yourselves, that's your own choice I suppose lol

But in all seriousness I apologize if I did offend or ask something taboo on here, I'm still new. I know that nobody owes me anything, I just came on here hoping for some goodwill. I didn't ask for a source, I didn't say "hey can you give me the ok to go shove needles in my ass", I didn't ask for what compounds to use...I just asked for some help coordinating a pct.

 

[Dr JIM]

To clarify I'm NOT opposed to the use or "abuse", if some want to call it that of ASS per se.

However I know how complex the use of these substances can be and kids who believe AAS are just another pill to try bc they are not satisfied with life is anything but a wise decision.

Why bc a large portion of those who are not "legitimate" experimenters have significant psycho-social or identity issues and AAS only worsens their problems, and rest assured Meso members NEVER obtain their full story!

Adults whom are established and responsible in life that's THEIR DECISION and one I fully support.

Jim

 

[Sk8man101]

@Sk8man101 @Dr JIM

I made another post after my first response thanking both of you for replying to this thread and explaining a bit more, it says it's still awaiting moderator approval.

But I feel that both of you are deeply misjudging me. Yes, I'm very young. But I'm 21 years old, with a bad stomach condition, and within the reach of a career that is very dependent on my physicality. Not a highschooler trying to impress instagram bitches. It would help me greatly to gain a few pounds, but it's become impossible for me because of my condition. I'm stuck even after seeking professional medical help, and hiring a good dietician. Yet I've been acquainted with people who've had my same condition and seen some benefits from the use of AAS.

I also never disrespected either of you. I only said it's somewhat unfair for you to set your mind on giving me the same cookie cutter response everyone who's young receives here without even reading my background. That's all...I also never asked for either of you to go fuck yourselves, that's your own choice I suppose lol

But in all seriousness I apologize if I did offend or ask something taboo on here, I'm still new. I know that nobody owes me anything, I just came on here hoping for some goodwill. I didn't ask for a source, I didn't say "hey can you give me the ok to go shove needles in my ass", I didn't ask for what compounds to use...I just asked for some help coordinating a pct.

Ok maybe the go fuck yourself thing was a bit much, I apologize.
I'm 22 dude.
Take some wisdom and wait a few more years.
Your gunna lose most of your gains when you come off anyways.

 

[wedorecover]

700 stay off gear brother u can make great gains with that your are gonna open a can of worms man

 

[Sk8man101]

@Sk8man101
Thanks for the reply, I also think 700 is a high number. But from what I understand it's also an average number for someone my age. From what I understand an estrogen level of 41 is also high though. And there's also other factors involved. I feel that if I can do this the right way it would benefit me a lot, I've already made the decision. I'd just like to know what sort of PCT and AI I should run, and if I should dose/plan it differently based on my blood levels. I know that nobody here owes me shit, but I would appreciate the help. If not then I sincerely thank you for your time either way.

There are already plenty of answers in this forum. Keep reading and you'll find all that you need.
Don't forget to properly calculate your half lives.
And always get pharm grade for your pct and ai.

 

[K0balt]

Thank you guys for being real with me, that's why I like this place. I've been considering gear for quite a while, ever since my digestive problems made me lose weight really badly and there didn't seem any way to fix it.

But in light of what everyone here has told me, I think I'm going to seriously reconsider. And at least do more research for the time being. With that in mind, would it be alright for me to ask someone here to maybe review the cycle/pct I've been considering? I've been doing a lot of reading for at least the past year and it would help me to know if I'm at least on the right track.

After reading some stuff around the forum, as well as some articles by Bill Roberts, and the Comprehensive Guide to PCT in the stickies, this is more or less what I conceived-

Week 1-6
30-40mg Dbol ED

Week 1-10/12
250mg Test C/E twice a week (at least 3 days apart)

Week 1 - (Just before starting PCT)
.5mg Arimidex (adjusted as needed)

Week 6-9
500IU HCG 3 days a week (1500IU per week)

Bloods should be taken mid cycle to determine any necessary changes. Then one should wait around 3 weeks give or take (depending on the drug's half life) before beginning PCT. PCT would look something like-

Clomid
100/100/50/50
Nolva
40/40/20/20

Could someone tell me if this if off, or if I'm at least on the right track? Even if not precisely right now I would like to attempt a cycle like this some time in the future. If not then again, it's alright. I'm grateful for this forum and the things I've learned here thus far.

@Sk8man101
Thanks for the hints brother. Not at all discrediting anyone else, but it helps to hear from someone around my age. And yea I've heard it's crucial for pct and ai to be pharma grade. The stuff I had on hand were from a supplier I found here that only carries pharmaceutical pct items and who's fairly popular in the underground.

 

[Sk8man101]

You could cut your clomid in half.

 

[Old]

Hello, new member here on Meso but longtime lurker. After a lot of deliberation with myself I've decided to pull the trigger on my first cycle. I'm still relatively young, and I know Meso is mostly a damage control based board from what I've seen. But I believe that in my personal situation the benefits of gear for my future will outweigh the cons. Before you pass judgment on me I'd appreciate if you read my first post
HERE

So I've ran some blood tests pre-cycle and sought professional guidance. My test levels came back in the 700 range which I suppose is just about normal for someone my age. But my estradiol is at 41. How would this affect me cycle-wise? Should I plan my PCT differently?

I plan on running a standard Test C, Dbol cycle for 10-12 weeks. I have Arimidex, Clomid, Nolvadex, and HCG on hand.
Any advice would be really appreciated, thank you.

Since your E2 is high, try taking 1/2 anastrozole a day. Everyone is different, but that may drop E2 in the 20's and raise T and free T. After a few weeks get T, free T (direct), and E2 tested and see where you fall. Don't bother with taking androgens until you resolve E2 first. Longevity studies suggest E2 > 20 but < 30.

As you probably know, Crohn's is an autoimmune disease and some guys get help from higher T, but don't know about your particular diagnosis. But if raising T keeps you from have chunks of colon cut out in the future. Its hard to know since 700 is good. But fix E2 before making further decisions.

 

[K0balt]

Thank you guys for the feedback.

@Sk8man101
I'm guessing you mean to instead try
50/50/25/25 ?

@Old
Yes that's right. There is a lot of talk about AAS helping out guys with severe Crohn's, that's why I've been inclined to look into this. But you're right, I'll work on my E2 first. A question though...
Wouldn't half a mg of arimidex ever day be a bit too much? I'm willing to try it, since I would like to fix my E2 before doing anything else. But I'm wondering if it would be possible for my body to be less responsive to anastrozole in some way if I were to cut back on it during a cycle. Say I take adex at that high a frequency for a couple of weeks...then start taking a chemical like test that aromatizes, and at the same time cut my adex dosage to .5mg only EOD instead of ED. Could that potentially cause my E2 to rise again?

I'm only asking out of curiosity because I recently read a case on breast cancer that reports patients often develop a tolerance to AIs. And I've even read a few threads on here where people say the same. Like I said, I don't know much, but because of my E2 levels I would want to make sure my AI is as effective as possible without crashing.

 

[Sk8man101]

Yeah 50/50/25/25

 

[Old]

Thank you guys for the feedback.

@Sk8man101
I'm guessing you mean to instead try
50/50/25/25 ?

@Old
Yes that's right. There is a lot of talk about AAS helping out guys with severe Crohn's, that's why I've been inclined to look into this. But you're right, I'll work on my E2 first. A question though...
Wouldn't half a mg of arimidex ever day be a bit too much? I'm willing to try it, since I would like to fix my E2 before doing anything else. But I'm wondering if it would be possible for my body to be less responsive to anastrozole in some way if I were to cut back on it during a cycle. Say I take adex at that high a frequency for a couple of weeks...then start taking a chemical like test that aromatizes, and at the same time cut my adex dosage to .5mg only EOD instead of ED. Could that potentially cause my E2 to rise again?

I'm only asking out of curiosity because I recently read a case on breast cancer that reports patients often develop a tolerance to AIs. And I've even read a few threads on here where people say the same. Like I said, I don't know much, but because of my E2 levels I would want to make sure my AI is as effective as possible without crashing.

Don't know about the tolerance problems. Two ways to minimize tolerance are to take minimum doses and to cycle off from time to time. You could also alternate every few month between an AI and a SERM ... you just need to figure the dose of each med (and there are 3 AIs available, and 7 SERMs, lol). It isn't a bad idea to start with 1/2 anastrozole EOD, then see if you can gain muscle again. Also, after a few weeks, get bloods for T, free T (direct), and E2.

For me, 0.5mg droped E2 from 39.6 to 21.2, raised T from 460 to 807, and free T from 4.9 to 13.8. Definitely felt better. But my physiology is screwy and one doesn't know how someone else will respond. Also just found out I have bad osteoporosis, so need to switch partially or completely to a SERM.

 

[K0balt]

Yeah 50/50/25/25

Alright, appreciate the input brother.

For me, 0.5mg droped E2 from 39.6 to 21.2, raised T from 460 to 807, and free T from 4.9 to 13.8. Definitely felt better.

Thanks for all the help. My question is...you say .5mg helped your E2 go down that much but at what frequency were you taking that dose? Every day? Every other day? And for how long? Several weeks I imagine? You recommended that I take .5mg ED to start off and lower my estradiol, which seems like a sound plan. But I would have guessed it better to just take one full milligram EOD instead because of arimidex's two day long half life. Then maybe drop dosage down to .5mg EOD if I went on cycle. Or would that be wrong?

 

[Old]

0.5mg every day. Stated with 1mg and within a few days got very depressed and it screws up attention/focus. Stopped for 3 days then tried 1 EOD but felt too much fluctuation. So then when with 1/2 pill every day. From first pill to blood test was 6 weeks. Really, from what it felt like, the effect settled in about a week ... but makes sense to give it a few for the whole hormone system to balance out, then test.

Now I have weird neurological problems so am extra sensitive to meds. So generally prefer to keep levels constant (within less than a half-life), and this is true with this med. Doubt that others would be a sensitive.