offwhitecurtains
New Member
CubbieBlue,
I was wondering if you might give me some direction concerning peptides, which ones are you using, I am not familiar with peptides or how to use them.
Thanks
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Fluoroquinolone
- Thread starter CubbieBlue
- Start date
CubbieBlue,
I was wondering if you might give me some direction concerning peptides, which ones are you using, I am not familiar with peptides or how to use them.
Thanks
Hi CubbieBlue, I came across your post. I too have been "floxed". Prior to being floxed, Im 41 and went to the Gym 4-5 days a week and considered myself to be fairly healthy, and quite strong. I was prescribed Cipro 2x 500mg a day for 14 days for a "suspected" urinary infection. Sad part is I always read up on Med's before I take them, saw a few of the horror stories and decided to take them anyway. By about day 4, I noticed my hips started to get a little sore, by day 5 more sore, and by day 6 I stopped taking the Cipro and was having noticable leg pain while walking and muscle twitches everywhere. That was about 6 months ago... To this day, I still have good and bad days. I find my pain complaints now are mostly leg related. I used to be able to lift really heavy with my legs, and now they feel like an 80 year olds. I used to be able to walk on the treadmill at 5-6mph at the highest incline, and now I can do maybe 3mph on 0 incline. My achilles tendons feel tight or burning, the muscles in the backs of my legs feel like they are pulled most of the time (above the knee and behind the knee). and my latest annoying symptoms are burning sensations all over my body. Upper body feels pretty good except in my forearms (near the elbow) feels sore and tender most of the time. I find with my legs and their tendons, I have to baby myself. I thought if I pushed and strengthened my legs they would improve, but it seems to be the opposite. If I push even a little bit if comes back worse the next day. It's very frustrating. I seem to have the cycle's or "flareups" as I call them.
Prior to taking Cipro, I was considering trying an Anabolic testosterone cycle (first time ever), but since all these problems started I read that Cortisteroids should be avoided as they cause more trouble. I'm considering trying the testosterone cycle again and wondering if could possibly help with the legs?
I'm thinking if it helps build up leg muscle it might take pressure off the tendons? Have you had any experience with trying AS a solution? I'd like to try and see if it helps, but I'm scared it may make the symptoms worse.
Thanks for posting all your info. I have to admit I skimmed most of your posts trying to get to the end of your messages to find your "magic cure" only to see you are still suffering as am I. Will keep in touch! Hi to everyone else in this thread as well!
Take care,
Dave
Prior to taking Cipro, I was considering trying an Anabolic testosterone cycle (first time ever), but since all these problems started I read that Cortisteroids should be avoided as they cause more trouble. I'm considering trying the testosterone cycle again and wondering if could possibly help with the legs?
I'm thinking if it helps build up leg muscle it might take pressure off the tendons? Have you had any experience with trying AS a solution? I'd like to try and see if it helps, but I'm scared it may make the symptoms worse.
Thanks for posting all your info. I have to admit I skimmed most of your posts trying to get to the end of your messages to find your "magic cure" only to see you are still suffering as am I. Will keep in touch! Hi to everyone else in this thread as well!
Take care,
Dave
I'm about 14 months and always up and down. More often up than down. I train heavy, try and run, do everything I did before. I encourage you to do the same but sensibly.
The testosterone would be worth a shot. I have read that high doses of AAS may be detrimental to tendon health however. I was thinking of giving it a shot but don't really have the monetary resources to keep throwing shit at it.
Good luck...if you have any questions let me know.
As far as peptides go - there is a lot of information out there. I encourage you to look for it.
Is there no other alternative? I hope you end up OK.
Its the first drug of choice for the Dx. The other bad thing that sometimes happens is an over growth of C. diff. bacteria resulting in possibly a long bout with the shits. But I`m not going to lift anything heavier than a gallon of milk or my dick during the treatment- well, guess thats about the same.
Its the first drug of choice for the Dx. The other bad thing that sometimes happens is an over growth of C. diff. bacteria resulting in possibly a long bout with the shits. But I`m not going to lift anything heavier than a gallon of milk or my dick during the treatment- well, guess thats about the same.
Re-read this entire thread. See if you want to continue taking it. I bet you will find an alternative.
AVELON Tablets; AVELON IV Solution for Infusion
FASTSTATS - Leading Causes of Death (third down from the top)
Its really a no brainer.
read this thread from start to finish. Very interesting indeed.
I have a urinary infection and was prescribed cipro last week.
I filled the script but then called the MD to change it to another antibiotic- he did and it worked.
Question. Cipro is a very commonly prescribed drug. Why?? how many people get these terrible side effects??
I have mentioned this tghread to several of my buddies. Many, including me, have taking it with no problem.
I am not questioning anyone but it seems to me that these severe side effects seem to be rare.
Am i off base on this??
I have a urinary infection and was prescribed cipro last week.
I filled the script but then called the MD to change it to another antibiotic- he did and it worked.
Question. Cipro is a very commonly prescribed drug. Why?? how many people get these terrible side effects??
I have mentioned this tghread to several of my buddies. Many, including me, have taking it with no problem.
I am not questioning anyone but it seems to me that these severe side effects seem to be rare.
Am i off base on this??
Congratulations ! Thats comitment to effort. I tried th hit the highlights.
There is a lot of info on it out there for someone who makes the effort.
I think the C. diff. is more common.
I studied that when a friend a died of cancer a couple years ago. Well actually died from the c. diff. infection after Clyndamycin treatment.
There are class action lawsuits going on re. c. diff. and clyndamycin.
offwhitecurtains
New Member
cubbieblue,
How have you been lately, I still continue to have tendon issues in lower back, shoulders, feet. Wondering if anything in particular has been of greatest benefit?
Thanks.
OhNoYo
New Member
I am thinking because of Cipro being a broad spectrum antibiotic that kills both gram + & gram - bacteria, so it makes physicians' jobs much easier in terms of not having to pinpoint the particular bacteria that is causing problems.
zkt said:
That's retarded...clindamycin has been around a long time as has the knowledge it can cause C. diff infections. It's a known risk but sometimes in my field it is just the best choice for an infection. Here's the kicker...ANY antibiotic can lead to a C. diff infection.
All meds have risks. I warn all patients C. diff infection is a possibility. If the doctor and pharmaceutical company warns the patient it's a known complication and the patient knows it can happen and it does that's life....
Lots of people are allergic to penicillin. Thankfully most first time reactions are minor but the fact that someone could have an anaphylactic reaction the first time out or could have missed the hives in the past can't dissuade me from Rx it when it's appropriate. All meds have risks....
People are unbelievable.
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That's both true, and untrue, in part.
It's true that just about any antibiotic can result in a C. diff infection. However, not all antibiotics are equally likely. Allow me to elaborate...
There are three arguments to be made here: (1) an argument as to why some antibiotics are more likely to be followed by a C. diff infection, (2) an argument that presents empirical evidence that there is an association between certain antibiotics and a subsequent C. diff infection, and (3) causality vs. correlation.
(1) Different antibiotics are more or less effective at targeting certain bacteria. If a particular antibiotic is fantastic at killing everything except C. diff, then that's a bit of a problem... Not just because that bacteria can grow without the other bacteria there to keep its population down, but also because via quorum sensing, otherwise harmless bacteria can sense its lack of "competitors", and will actually start transcribing otherwise inactive genes that make it become pathological. C. diff is known to have at least one signalling molecule used in quorum sensing (link) : http://jmm.sgmjournals.org/content/54/2/119.abstract As far as a source to show that certain broad-spectrum antibiotics are ineffective at killing C. diff (but kill lots of other stuff); that shit is everywhere; here's a link to a search: clostridium difficile associated diarrhea antibiotics - Google Scholar
(2) Clindamycin is strongly associated with C. diff infections (link) : Antibiotics and hospital-acquired Clostridium difficile-associated diarrhoea: a systematic review; however, fluoroquinolones are even more strongly associated with C. diff infections (link) : Emergence of Fluoroquinolones as the Predominant Risk Factor for Clostridium difficile–Associated Diarrhea: A Cohort Study during an Epidemic in Quebec. As it turns out, fluoroquinolones and clindamycin are fantastic at killing things that aren't C. diff.
(3) While proving causality can indeed be a tricky motherfucker, the statistics seem to lean in that direction. I'm sure that if this lawsuit regarding clindamycin exists (and is moving forward) it will probably be more important to show that the drug manufacturer knew about the risk and buried it. After all, if you aren't exposed to C. diff, you can take all the clindamycin you want, and you still won't get a C. diff infection; if an antibiotic kills off everything else in your system, you're likely to get all kinds of uncommon infections if exposed to the right pathogen.
On a side note: I had a nasty case of epididymitis in the last year, and I took a (reasonably) high dose of doxycycline and cephalexin for 5 full months. Yeah, five months. Afterwards, I shat my guts out like it was going out of style. But given that particular combination of gram + and gram - broad-spectrum action, I wasn't surprised to find out that very little was left living in my bowels. Did I have C. diff? Probably not. I suppose I might have; I wasn't worried because I didn't have the requisite 3+ liquishit sessions daily. I spent the next few months taking twice daily probiotics from the local nutball health food store to return to normal...
My response not supported by any lit at the moment as I'm typing this on my phone taking my morning constitution.
1. The fact remains that there are not all that many oral drugs that are nearly as effective as clindamycin for polymicrobial anaerobic odontogenic infections. Penicillins don't work, cephalosporins don't work regardless of generation, macrolides don't work and/or have their own issues.
Your options here are succumb to your very nasty infection, require hospital admission and IV abx for something that can be very effectively treated in an outpatient setting or risk pseudomembranous colitis.
2. I have literally read ten or twenty articles over the past years that show the risk of pseudomembranous colitis from clindamycin has been greatly overstated in the literature and that there is likely only a slightly larger risk in OUT PATIENT SETTING.
3. There are articles out there that state it's safety is so good that because just about every person over the age of 18 months has had a least one course of penicillin and in the least harbors PBP producing bacteria and more than likely harbor beta-lactase producing bacteria that clindamycin should be the new first line for antibiotic prophylaxis.
4. I have Rx'd it hundreds of times and collectively know people why have Rx'd it tens of thousands of times and no one has ever had to deal with this complication.
5. Oral surgery department has many faculty who had been practicing for 35+ years and they had seen it maybe 1 or 2 times and it was always in-patient with multiple comorbities being pumped full of multiple ABX.
6. As far as the lit you sited above.....for very ill patients in the hospital with nasty infections you just gave evidence that both clindamycin and fluorquinones are linked to higher C. Diff.....what other classes of antibiotics are left?
Again do you let the patient die because they MAY get PMC and there AREN'T other alternatives?
And that's my problem with this lawsuit. Outpatient use is safe. In-patient use has a higher risk but doctors often find themselves having to use the lesser of two evils out of necessity. Let the patient die of their infection or lose a body part or whatever or risk C. diff? Then when something does happen sue the doctor (who has no other good alternatives) and the drug company who has advertised this side effect so well over the past thirty years most lay people could tell you it can cause colitis.
Is it risk free? Nope, but it a hell of a good drug when used appropriately.
1. The fact remains that there are not all that many oral drugs that are nearly as effective as clindamycin for polymicrobial anaerobic odontogenic infections. Penicillins don't work, cephalosporins don't work regardless of generation, macrolides don't work and/or have their own issues.
Your options here are succumb to your very nasty infection, require hospital admission and IV abx for something that can be very effectively treated in an outpatient setting or risk pseudomembranous colitis.
2. I have literally read ten or twenty articles over the past years that show the risk of pseudomembranous colitis from clindamycin has been greatly overstated in the literature and that there is likely only a slightly larger risk in OUT PATIENT SETTING.
3. There are articles out there that state it's safety is so good that because just about every person over the age of 18 months has had a least one course of penicillin and in the least harbors PBP producing bacteria and more than likely harbor beta-lactase producing bacteria that clindamycin should be the new first line for antibiotic prophylaxis.
4. I have Rx'd it hundreds of times and collectively know people why have Rx'd it tens of thousands of times and no one has ever had to deal with this complication.
5. Oral surgery department has many faculty who had been practicing for 35+ years and they had seen it maybe 1 or 2 times and it was always in-patient with multiple comorbities being pumped full of multiple ABX.
6. As far as the lit you sited above.....for very ill patients in the hospital with nasty infections you just gave evidence that both clindamycin and fluorquinones are linked to higher C. Diff.....what other classes of antibiotics are left?
Again do you let the patient die because they MAY get PMC and there AREN'T other alternatives?
And that's my problem with this lawsuit. Outpatient use is safe. In-patient use has a higher risk but doctors often find themselves having to use the lesser of two evils out of necessity. Let the patient die of their infection or lose a body part or whatever or risk C. diff? Then when something does happen sue the doctor (who has no other good alternatives) and the drug company who has advertised this side effect so well over the past thirty years most lay people could tell you it can cause colitis.
Is it risk free? Nope, but it a hell of a good drug when used appropriately.
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I haven't seen the specifics of the lawsuit, but if it has any merit (IMO), it shouldn't be focusing on whether or not a C. diff infection is likely to occur after using said antibiotic, but rather whether or not physicians / patients were kept in the dark about the risks.
In other words, the issues of whether or not certain adverse events are likely to occur after taking a particular drug and whether or not the risks associated with a particular drug justify its usage for a particular application are separate and distinct. Given what you've said above, I imagine that even if you were convinced that the clindamycin - C.diff relationship wasn't overstated, you'd still need to prescribe it in certain circumstances because the risk is justified by the benefit.
These legal details seem important to me, but I am by no means educated in legal matters. For all I know, you can file and win a lawsuit against the manufacturer of a chemotherapeutic agent because it made your hair fall out. But my (uneducated) guess is that patients involved in this lawsuit probably think that physicians were mislead in regards to clindamycin's safety, and prescribed it in situations where the risk was not justified by the benefit.
If this is true, then they deserve to win... I can imagine that I'd be pretty bitter if I lost my colon to clindamycin if that particular infection could have been successfully treated with a safer alternative.
Without reading the lawsuit....
You'd have to be brain dead as a physician to not know clindamycin is associated with C. diff infection and pseudomembranous colitis. This is something I learned as a freshman in college and was repeated no fewer than 12 billions time during my training. The manufactures of clinda do not hide this in anyway and there is enough independent research on clindamycin that it doesn't really matter what the manufacture does or doesn't say.
I just don't understand the class action status. If a doctor Rx when it's not appropriate how is that a problem for the manufacture. I'd be interested to know what the ground for this case are and what they are seeking in damages.
You'd have to be brain dead as a physician to not know clindamycin is associated with C. diff infection and pseudomembranous colitis. This is something I learned as a freshman in college and was repeated no fewer than 12 billions time during my training. The manufactures of clinda do not hide this in anyway and there is enough independent research on clindamycin that it doesn't really matter what the manufacture does or doesn't say.
I just don't understand the class action status. If a doctor Rx when it's not appropriate how is that a problem for the manufacture. I'd be interested to know what the ground for this case are and what they are seeking in damages.
Never doubt your fellow man's capacity for being brain dead! I took a look around for this lawsuit, and here's what I found:
- Medical malpractice lawsuits. Yep, some docs out there are brain dead. Here's a link to one such case: this dentist prescribed clindamycin prophylactically, as in when there was no evidence of infection at all! The patient developed a C. diff infection, and required multiple surgeries, which subsequently left him incontinent. He successfully sued the dentist for $1.25 million, the largest of its kind in the state of Illinois: Illinois Dental Malpractice Case Settles for .25 Million - Chicago Medical Malpractice Attorney Blog
- Timeline. The FDA approved cleocin in 1970. If there was a class action lawsuit, it was probably a long time ago (and is probably why this information was hammered into your head in school).
Zkt: are you certain that this class action lawsuit is current?
It looks like the fluoroquinolones are much more exciting for litigious folks these days. And with all the fluoroquinolone associated problems that are cropping up (including, but not limited to snapping tendons), it looks like this is going to be going on for a while...
Figures it was a freakin' dentist! Basic knowledge varies greatly depending on where you were trained. Many schools teach the dumbed down version of medical school. I was lucky since medical and dental are together the first two years. Profs make no distinctions. So yeah before I ever picked up a drill I was getting pimped on the brachial plexus, was dissecting peroneous longus and brevis and to figure out the anion gap and whether the patient has a metabolic or respiratory acidosis. Most dentists can't tell you what any of those things are let alone anything meaningful about them.
Anyway, I'm not against law suits if someone fucked up just didn't understand the class action component. Of course, had the same patient come in with a nasty abscess because they don't feel like brushing their teeth and they were allergic to penicillin and the dentist Rx'd clinda (appropriate) and warned them of C. diff complications they'd still be suing. That's the kicker - you can do everything right and still be sued. My father-in-law is a medical malpractice defense attorney and they cases he defends are unbelievable! OB sued because the baby's penis was crooked! Yup it made it all the way to court.
Anyway, I'm not against law suits if someone fucked up just didn't understand the class action component. Of course, had the same patient come in with a nasty abscess because they don't feel like brushing their teeth and they were allergic to penicillin and the dentist Rx'd clinda (appropriate) and warned them of C. diff complications they'd still be suing. That's the kicker - you can do everything right and still be sued. My father-in-law is a medical malpractice defense attorney and they cases he defends are unbelievable! OB sued because the baby's penis was crooked! Yup it made it all the way to court.
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LOL
The lawyers have all the power. It's a shame that practicing law is so fucking boring...
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