Fluoroquinolone

[CubbieBlue]

And that is just how it goes. These things tend to flare and oscillate a lot. You can get an x-ray, but don't expect to see a whole lot. I just got three of them done yesterday, but I think an MRI would be best at showing the inflammation of tendons.

I'd be curious to see if FQ sufferers tend to fall into the HLB27 group.

Yeah, I'm sure it won't show much. I am really going just so he can evaluate it and make sure I don't have a meniscus tear/anything similar. Honestly at this point the tendonitis is almost gone. Now it is more of an arthritis type pain, concentrated almost entirely in my lower back and knees. The lower back also has some type of sciatica going on too. I stretched for probably an hour last night and if anything it made it worse.

I even took 15 mg of mobic last night and again this morning to see if it would alleviate the pain - and it is no different. Weird.

I guess this is the cyclic nature this shit goes in.

I seriously wanted to fucking deck my 62 yo office manager today. I sent her an email saying I would be out at 2 to go to the appointment (she doesn't know about the FQs) and she goes "No more Rugby for you, huh". What kind of fucking snide remark is that? I can't stand people.

 

[chemman]

Yeah, I'm sure it won't show much. I am really going just so he can evaluate it and make sure I don't have a meniscus tear/anything similar. Honestly at this point the tendonitis is almost gone. Now it is more of an arthritis type pain, concentrated almost entirely in my lower back and knees. The lower back also has some type of sciatica going on too. I stretched for probably an hour last night and if anything it made it worse.

I even took 15 mg of mobic last night and again this morning to see if it would alleviate the pain - and it is no different. Weird.

I guess this is the cyclic nature this shit goes in.

I seriously wanted to fucking deck my 62 yo office manager today. I sent her an email saying I would be out at 2 to go to the appointment (she doesn't know about the FQs) and she goes "No more Rugby for you, huh". What kind of fucking snide remark is that? I can't stand people.

Yea that's some bullshit.

Guess she doesn't know that your T is probably tuned higher than anybody else in that building.

Mobic is a weird drug. You have to take it consistently so it can get up in your synovial fluid and do it's thing. I also find that I can get by with 7.5mg. But it makes me feel kinda goofy and eats up my stomach so best bet is to not have to take it/try other methods.

 

[CubbieBlue]

Yea that's some bullshit.

Guess she doesn't know that your T is probably tuned higher than anybody else in that building.

Mobic is a weird drug. You have to take it consistently so it can get up in your synovial fluid and do it's thing. I also find that I can get by with 7.5mg. But it makes me feel kinda goofy and eats up my stomach so best bet is to not have to take it/try other methods.

Haha..

I am going to keep taking it and hopefully it alleviates some of the pain / any potential joint damage. I'll be sure to take it (and all of my supps) on a full stomach.

Right now as far as inflammation goes I am taking:
2 tabs Zyflamend
15 mg Mobic
3 g fish oil per day (like 9 caps)

 

[CubbieBlue]

OK, good news:

No signs of arthritis, and both knees very stable. Based on his physical examination (and the fact that I have no pain with his manipulation) I have no critical structural issues. Doc had read quite a bit on FQ effects on tendons/joints, but I was the first person he had seen. He also checked my back and said that I did not have any bulging discs or anything and that...mild tenderness on the sciatic side but he said it should work itself out. He said the pain in my knees (and bodywide) is likely originating from within my tendons.

So, he suggested a medrol dose pak. Here's the rub: Some FQ sufferers note worsening of symptoms and relapses upon taking corticosteroids. I informed him of this, and he told me that if I had JUST suffered the reaction he would not give it to me. He said that I didn't have to take it, but taking it now should knock out most of the inflammation and may resolve the pain. He said it shouldn't effect the healing process at this point.

The script is sitting in my car. Should I fill it?

 

[CubbieBlue]

Elsevier

If someone can get me a full text PLEASE PM me.

 

[CubbieBlue]

Here.

 

[CubbieBlue]

Here.

Interesting to note:

Just got magnesium labs back. Since this began i have been supplementing with a little over the recommended daily Mg. My labs STILL came back low.

Mg L 1.7 (1.8-2.4)

If you read the article they postulate that the chelating effects of FQs on Mg may be the causative agent behind the tendon decay.

 

[OhNoYo]

OK, good news:

No signs of arthritis, and both knees very stable. Based on his physical examination (and the fact that I have no pain with his manipulation) I have no critical structural issues. Doc had read quite a bit on FQ effects on tendons/joints, but I was the first person he had seen. He also checked my back and said that I did not have any bulging discs or anything and that...mild tenderness on the sciatic side but he said it should work itself out. He said the pain in my knees (and bodywide) is likely originating from within my tendons.

So, he suggested a medrol dose pak. Here's the rub: Some FQ sufferers note worsening of symptoms and relapses upon taking corticosteroids. I informed him of this, and he told me that if I had JUST suffered the reaction he would not give it to me. He said that I didn't have to take it, but taking it now should knock out most of the inflammation and may resolve the pain. He said it shouldn't effect the healing process at this point.

The script is sitting in my car. Should I fill it?

Did you take the corticosteroids?

 

[CubbieBlue]

Did you take the corticosteroids?

No, and I will not. The cost/benefit is just not worth it. I went through the quinolone group and looked up how people reacted to corticosteroids and it didn't look good. A few escaped unharmed, but it didn't seem especially beneficial to anyone and it set back a good amount of people. Screw it.

Hopefully I can go the rest of my life without having to take them. Or at least the next 20 years.

Lifted light weight/high rep today and ran a mie. Sore ankles but not bad.

 

[OhNoYo]

No, and I will not. The cost/benefit is just not worth it. I went through the quinolone group and looked up how people reacted to corticosteroids and it didn't look good. A few escaped unharmed, but it didn't seem especially beneficial to anyone and it set back a good amount of people. Screw it.

Hopefully I can go the rest of my life without having to take them. Or at least the next 20 years.

Lifted light weight/high rep today and ran a mie. Sore ankles but not bad.

Good Call! I wouldn't have taken them either for various reasons!

 

[CubbieBlue]

Interesting to note:

Just got magnesium labs back. Since this began i have been supplementing with a little over the recommended daily Mg. My labs STILL came back low.

Mg L 1.7 (1.8-2.4)

If you read the article they postulate that the chelating effects of FQs on Mg may be the causative agent behind the tendon decay.

My doctor recommended I take 600 mg per day to bring this up. I have been taking 800 per day, and will continue to do so as long as my stomach can handle it. We'll see how it goes.

My Vit D & Zinc both came back good. The nurse called the Vit D "the best she had ever seen" at 84. I have been taking 5000 IU per day to get that level. I will back off of the supplementation to 1000 iu per day or so.

 

[CubbieBlue]

Pussy ass quinolones - 0

Cubbieblue - 1

Went to two rugby practices this week .Fuckin running, fucking sprinting, fucking contact. Not much pain at all. By the time I get warmed up I am good to go. Still continuing with supplements and some other modalities to make sure this is not a flash in the pan. I still have some cracking/popping tendons and get a little achy from time to time, but no big deal. I would say I am about 85%. I think I'll be 100% in no time.

edit: also, I figure if I blow a tendon, I'd rather blow it doing something cool rather than taking the dishes out of the dishwasher. If it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen, so fuck it.

 

[Thin Ice]

damn Dude.......I wasn't going to post my my war story with that crap till I got to the end of this thread and saw you seem to be recovering. My battle lasted years.......6 or 7. I had used cipro 2 or 3 times. Inflammation moved into my elbows and I did the Dr route and tried different things.
It sucked big time. I had to change my whole life and learned to do things like haul my groceries to the car with a cart and pretty much never lift much with my arms. It was unbelievable.

I also had inflammation appear briefly and go away in most other joints.....knees, ankles, hips, wrists.
I was always afraid it would settle in a spot and stay as it did in my elbows.

You did a good job of researching possible helpful supplements though......and the GHRP-6 might truly have helped. That is interesting. I had never heard of peptides when my problem hit me.

Is GhRP-6 pinned same way as GH?? Sub Q daily ? How did you dose? I may try some. After many years I still get a hot burning feeling in some tendons if I stress my joints hard and am always afraid that crap might come back. My joints and connective tissues have never been the same and I can't stress them like I could before.

 

[CubbieBlue]

damn Dude.......I wasn't going to post my my war story with that crap till I got to the end of this thread and saw you seem to be recovering. My battle lasted years.......6 or 7. I had used cipro 2 or 3 times. Inflammation moved into my elbows and I did the Dr route and tried different things.
It sucked big time. I had to change my whole life and learned to do things like haul my groceries to the car with a cart and pretty much never lift much with my arms. It was unbelievable.

I also had inflammation appear briefly and go away in most other joints.....knees, ankles, hips, wrists.
I was always afraid it would settle in a spot and stay as it did in my elbows.

You did a good job of researching possible helpful supplements though......and the GHRP-6 might truly have helped. That is interesting. I had never heard of peptides when my problem hit me.

Is GhRP-6 pinned same way as GH?? Sub Q daily ? How did you dose? I may try some. After many years I still get a hot burning feeling in some tendons if I stress my joints hard and am always afraid that crap might come back. My joints and connective tissues have never been the same and I can't stress them like I could before.

Yes, I don't know if I will ever be the same as I was before, but I think I can nearly get there. Today for example my wrist is a little achy, but, whatever, I will deal.

Yes, I have been using 100mcg GHRP6 and 100 mcg GFR 1-29 2-3x daily subQ.

This whole situation has pretty much changed my opinion of doctors 180 degrees. They are helpful bu tonly to a certain degree...most have no fucking clue how to deal with chronic issues. You have to do your own research and be your own best advocate.

I would suggest light activity working your way up as slowly/best you can. All the new research out there shows that doing nothing is the worst thing you can do for tendonopathies. How you doing now?

 

[Thin Ice]

mine finally went away several years ago. But I suspect I will never recover completely to the point I once was. It was really annoying because I would get re-injured doing almost nothing......grabbing a gallon of milk out of the fridge quickly instead of moving slowly and carefully......shit like that drove me nuts.

But mine finally disappeared and I can do curls or anything now. At one point it was so bad it hurt for my elbow to touch the desk when I used a computer. God I felt fragile and like a complete pussy.

Like I said though....I had several doses of cipro.....so I may be lucky. Also at the time I had not uncovered the problems with that drug.

Yeah I lost all respect for the orthopedic guys too.

 

[CubbieBlue]

mine finally went away several years ago. But I suspect I will never recover completely to the point I once was. It was really annoying because I would get re-injured doing almost nothing......grabbing a gallon of milk out of the fridge quickly instead of moving slowly and carefully......shit like that drove me nuts.

But mine finally disappeared and I can do curls or anything now. At one point it was so bad it hurt for my elbow to touch the desk when I used a computer. God I felt fragile and like a complete pussy.

Like I said though....I had several doses of cipro.....so I may be lucky. Also at the time I had not uncovered the problems with that drug.

Yeah I lost all respect for the orthopedic guys too.

Did you ever deal with cracking/snapping tendons/joints?

 

[Thin Ice]

Oh hell yes.....just like you said...sounded like popcorn. Still have that to some degree....certainly worse than before.

What is the legal situation with peptides....I have forgotten? They are legal as I recall....right?

 

[CubbieBlue]

Oh hell yes.....just like you said...sounded like popcorn. Still have that to some degree....certainly worse than before.

What is the legal situation with peptides....I have forgotten? They are legal as I recall....right?

They are legal for in vitro research.

 

[chemman]

Oh hell yes.....just like you said...sounded like popcorn. Still have that to some degree....certainly worse than before.

What is the legal situation with peptides....I have forgotten? They are legal as I recall....right?

I have a feeling that the cracking will never fully go away once you get it. But the most important aspect is eliminating the pain/inflammation and inability to function well.

I have these issues as well from an adverse drug reaction and over time the cracking has slowly been reduced. And I mean very slowly. It was ridiculous for a while. Now it kinda comes and goes and is more noticeable when sleeping/inactive etc.

I also get the burning feelings in the connective tissue.

Still working on a game plan to speed up the healing.

 

[CubbieBlue]

I have a feeling that the cracking will never fully go away once you get it. But the most important aspect is eliminating the pain/inflammation and inability to function well.

I have these issues as well from an adverse drug reaction and over time the cracking has slowly been reduced. And I mean very slowly. It was ridiculous for a while. Now it kinda comes and goes and is more noticeable when sleeping/inactive etc.

I also get the burning feelings in the connective tissue.

Still working on a game plan to speed up the healing.

Why don't you try my game plan?

Edit: I know your game plan, just screwin with ya