For the regular Meso members

[drockspang1]

I gotta tell you. I'm glad so many guys on here see what's going on. I've received a ton of pm's since posting this yesterday, and most are on point. I'm not going to lie, and I've been asked this question. I don't know who is who on here. I'm just not that plugged into this scene, to know who the players are behind the scenes. But there's def people on here with an agenda.

To be clear. The sentiment of my post was that I believe there are members on here who either own, or have a vested interest in most of the ugl's on Meso. Particularly these past few mos. I haven't been around meso long enough to know if this is the norm(so many ugl's popping up)? But it seems that for the most part, it's unusual. Someone on here stated, and I've read this before, that we've basically be in a "bull" market, and that a correction is coming. And that might be the case? don't know if that's true or not? All we can do is stay vigilant & be safe. Trust absolutely no one.

 

[Millard]

What Drocksprang was getting at was there is a racket in the UGL section of this site. The members you mention could be, but I highly doubt they are part of the racket. Hell, any one of us could be anyone else.
How deep it goes and how far up the totem pole is anyone's guess. Don't take this section for face value.

"Only the paranoid survive."

From what I can tell there is a crew of 4-6 Meso members running everything in the UGL section. They create different labs to appeal to a different demographic within Meso. They have multiple handles and use them to generate positive PR, or they use them to bring up problems with orders via public post so that in turn the lab can make things right in public eyes, claiming to send extras etc, look like the savior of the AAS word. Using multiples to build a flawless customer service track record.

Make your case.

 

[Bucky]

Why can't someone just ban gearusings IP. It would make life so much easier

Is that even possible with TOR? I was under the impression the IP address changes every time he logs on.

 

[Millard]

I gotta tell you. I'm glad so many guys on here see what's going on. I've received a ton of pm's since posting this yesterday, and most are on point. I'm not going to lie, and I've been asked this question. I don't know who is who on here. I'm just not that plugged into this scene, to know who the players are behind the scenes. But there's def people on here with an agenda.

To be clear. The sentiment of my post was that I believe there are members on here who either own, or have a vested interest in most of the ugl's on Meso. Particularly these past few mos. I haven't been around meso long enough to know if this is the norm(so many ugl's popping up)? But it seems that for the most part, it's unusual. Someone on here stated, and I've read this before, that we've basically be in a "bull" market, and that a correction is coming. And that might be the case? don't know if that's true or not? All we can do is stay vigilant & be safe. Trust absolutely no one.

This subforum will have achieved its goal if this can be exposed.

But you are wrong in one respect. It is not unusual.

It's the norm in online bodybuilding communities. It's simply sanitized a little more on other forums within existing source/admin/mod/vet hierarchies.

MESO has done its best to flatten the hierarchies. This androgen black marketplace is uglier than most forums would have us think. They will tell you that you can trust their sources. MESO will tell you not to trust anyone.

I think the best way to expose the deceptive practices in online bodybuilding communities is to give members freedom of speech in an uncensored forum. In this environment, the truth has the best chance to prevail.

But it is by no means guaranteed.

Those invested in the existing hierarchies will attack the MESO approach to protect the status quo. Sources will become increasingly creative in their "marketing" techniques used to "game the system".

The truth won't necessarily come easily. There's a lot of money and a lot of free gear at stake. It will not be pretty.

IF MESO succeeds, I hope you don't blame MESO for painting an accurate picture of the online black market. It will simply be a reflection of reality.

The androgen black market sucks.

 

[DieYoungStrong]

This subforum will have achieved its goal if this can be exposed.

But you are wrong in one respect. It is not unusual.

It's the norm in online bodybuilding communities. It's simply sanitized a little more on other forums within existing source/admin/mod/vet hierarchies.

MESO has done its best to flatten the hierarchies. This androgen black marketplace is uglier than most forums would have us think. They will tell you that you can trust their sources. MESO will tell you not to trust anyone.

I think the best way to expose the deceptive practices in online bodybuilding communities is to give members freedom of speech in an uncensored forum. In this environment, the truth has the best chance to prevail.

But it is by no means guaranteed.

Those invested in the existing hierarchies will attack the MESO approach to protect the status quo. Sources will become increasingly creative in their "marketing" techniques used to "game the system".

The truth won't necessarily come easily. There's a lot of money and a lot of free gear at stake. It will not be pretty.

IF MESO succeeds, I hope you don't blame MESO for painting an accurate picture of the online black market. It will simply be a reflection of reality.

The androgen black market sucks.

This is why you are THE MAN!!

The problem isn't exclusive to the androgen black market...it's all black markets. There's billions to be made out there in the "androgen market". Nobody likes their slice of the pie being messed with. Without reading any studies or reports, I guarantee that, worldwide, black market ugl sales are in the billions.

This is another reason I'm anti-prohibition.

 

[weightcrusher]

Do you retards get that gearusing is your way of throwing anyone who disagrees under. LOOK AT WHAT THIS GUY IS SAYING RIGHT HERE. THIS IS WHAT WE ARE SAYING AND EVERYONE ELSE. READ HIS REPLY. HE IS COMPLETELY RIGHT BUT YOU ALL SKIPPED OVER IT.

From what I can tell there is a crew of 4-6 Meso members running everything in the UGL section. They create different labs to appeal to a different demographic within Meso. They have multiple handles and use them to generate positive PR, or they use them to bring up problems with orders via public post so that in turn the lab can make things right in public eyes, claiming to send extras etc, look like the savior of the AAS word. Using multiples to build a flawless customer service track record. Anyway, I am done using brand new labs, Dr Jim was correct in his 1-2 year minimum for a UGL.

 

[weightcrusher]

Check the energylabs thread. Check any UGL thread. These assholes accuse anyone they don't like of being GEARUSING. They have done it to plenty. They throw them around. Pin them up and make false claims and try to dig the source a grave with what they can. Its all their, they do it right infront of your face to be as rude as possible knowing what they are doing. And only the smart can pick it out.

"Only the paranoid survive."

Make your case.

 

[BR1217]

"Only the paranoid survive."

Make your case.

Millard,
My apologies, this statement was based on speculation and speculation alone. I am always a little on the paranoid side when it comes to this sort of thing. I love this board and will always participate here as long as I am allowed. I could make a case based on some real thin stretches that might or might not be coincidence, not worth it until I can put something a little more solid together. I apologize for making the statement without the necessary facts to back it up. I fell victim to the emotion of the moment and will use better judgement going forward. Thanks for allowing us to operate in an uncensored environment like this.

 

[GigaloRob]

So you are saying that unless someone buys in to your opinion or theories they are not smart? Interesting.....

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

Check the energylabs thread. Check any UGL thread. These assholes accuse anyone they don't like of being GEARUSING. They have done it to plenty. They throw them around. Pin them up and make false claims and try to dig the source a grave with what they can. Its all their, they do it right infront of your face to be as rude as possible knowing what they are doing. And only the smart can pick it out.

They are covert operatives working to secretly to overthrow Burger King. They operate outside the reach of any government or the UN, therefore, they have no constraints. They are black ops... I suspect MI-6 and Mossad. They have a license to kill. Be careful what you say - these people are dangerous and they WILL find you.

They sent this message to me:

????? ??????. ????????. ???? ?????. ????? ??????. ????? ?????

It's some kind of code. I wish I could break it. Can you help me?

 

[smiles]

Check the energylabs thread. Check any UGL thread. These assholes accuse anyone they don't like of being GEARUSING. They have done it to plenty. They throw them around. Pin them up and make false claims and try to dig the source a grave with what they can. Its all their, they do it right infront of your face to be as rude as possible knowing what they are doing. And only the smart can pick it out.

Do you retards get that gearusing is your way of throwing anyone who disagrees under. LOOK AT WHAT THIS GUY IS SAYING RIGHT HERE. THIS IS WHAT WE ARE SAYING AND EVERYONE ELSE. READ HIS REPLY. HE IS COMPLETELY RIGHT BUT YOU ALL SKIPPED OVER IT.

only gearusing used caps, you must be gearusing, get outta here... [)]

 

[Millard]

Millard,
My apologies, this statement was based on speculation and speculation alone. I am always a little on the paranoid side when it comes to this sort of thing. I love this board and will always participate here as long as I am allowed. I could make a case based on some real thin stretches that might or might not be coincidence, not worth it until I can put something a little more solid together. I apologize for making the statement without the necessary facts to back it up. I fell victim to the emotion of the moment and will use better judgement going forward. Thanks for allowing us to operate in an uncensored environment like this.

No worries. Thanks for the clarification. There is nothing wrong with speculating; your speculation just came across more as certainty. Remain paranoid.

But even if there's not an organized conspiracy, there are a lot of other issues to be concerned about that serve the same purpose. One of my big concerns is seeing good members getting swept up in the marketing apparatus of sources.

It's usually expected, straightforward and obvious when it comes to the admin/mod/source arrangements. But it's more subtle when it comes to vets and any other members with clout.

How many posts does it realistically take to share one's experience and provide feedback on a transaction? Two? Three? Surely, no more than five? At what point does it become less about helping other members and more about helping yourself (and the source)?

It's a slippery slope. You see it all the time. There are the sources that promise to reward and take good care of those customers who defend them, who refuse enjoin the criticism levied against them, who refute customers who post negative reviews.

What does that mean? What reward will they give? Free gear? Discounted gear?

Why wouldn't a source give discounts and freebies to those members/customers who continually praise them? It's marketing 101; it's good business. If they give a free vial to a member who makes 5 positive posts, just think how many free vials they will give to a member who makes.

Members/consumers either consciously or subconsciously recognize this. They are very likely good members. And they may really deserve such gifts. But nothing is free. They are being exploited and used by sources to further their own ends.

Is it worth it? Is there any real harm done? After all, this is no evil conspiracy, it's just marketing.

What do you think?

 

[johnnyBALLZ]

No worries. Thanks for the clarification. There is nothing wrong with speculating; your speculation just came across more as certainty. Remain paranoid.



But even if there's not an organized conspiracy, there are a lot of other issues to be concerned about that serve the same purpose. One of my big concerns is seeing good members getting swept up in the marketing apparatus of sources.



It's usually expected, straightforward and obvious when it comes to the admin/mod/source arrangements. But it's more subtle when it comes to vets and any other members with clout.



How many posts does it realistically take to share one's experience and provide feedback on a transaction? Two? Three? Surely, no more than five? At what point does it become less about helping other members and more about helping yourself (and the source)?



It's a slippery slope. You see it all the time. There are the sources that promise to reward and take good care of those customers who defend them, who refuse enjoin the criticism levied against them, who refute customers who post negative reviews.



What does that mean? What reward will they give? Free gear? Discounted gear?



Why wouldn't a source give discounts and freebies to those members/customers who continually praise them? It's marketing 101; it's good business. If they give a free vial to a member who makes 5 positive posts, just think how many free vials they will give to a member who makes.



Members/consumers either consciously or subconsciously recognize this. They are very likely good members. And they may really deserve such gifts. But nothing is free. They are being exploited and used by sources to further their own ends.



Is it worth it? Is there any real harm done? After all, this is no evil conspiracy, it's just marketing.



What do you think?

I think it's shady.. I posted about this yesterday.. Quid pro quo..

The member receiving the perks consciously or subconsciously feels they in turn owe something to the source..

IMO if someone gets freebies it should be posted and their feedback should be taken with a grain of salt, like MikeOx said last night..

 

[Millard]

Would you let your neighbor run garage sales out of your driveway on a daily basis without compensation?

I don't think that's an accurate analogy.

It's more like you having a backyard barbeque at your house where you invite your friends and neighbors to shoot the shit. But you seem to have this endless parade of unsolicited door-to-door salespeople stopping by all afternoon.

You have the salespeople selling magazines, solar panels, Tupperware. You have Jehovah's Witness. You have the Friends of Obama. Greenpeace canvassers. Etc. Etc.

Some people you just never answer the door. Others you open the door, listen to their spiel and promptly tell them to get the fuck out of here and never come back (even though they always do).

Some you will listen to their spiel and ask them 101 questions to challenge them. Maybe they will change your beliefs. Most of the time they won't.

A few will actually leave you tempted to buy their products/services.

The products may be exactly what you're looking for like that bikini/lingerie calendar whose proceeds go to charity.

Or maybe they convinced you of some shared values such as the importance of family or their devotion to a shared religion. So they must be trustworthy.

Occasionally, you will even invite one of them into your home to share a beer even though it's always the biggest fucking mistake to even entertain the idea that they are one of you, that they are a friend or even worthy of sharing a beer with you. After all, they came to your house uninvited with the explicit goal of taking money from you.

Your friends may be warmed over by them. And your neighbors may even vouch for them. But then you realize that your neighbor isn't really your friend, you just invited them to your BBQ because it would have been awkward not to. And you learn the neighbor is getting kickbacks from door-to-door salesperson.

And the end of the day, you may feel that it may have been best never to have answered the door. Yet, you also realize that the experience taught you a lot, that you are wiser in the ways of the world, that you are more knowledgeable and less susceptible to anyone taking advantage of you in the future.

 

[JackC4]

Members need to keep eachother honest. Any hint of an agenda should be called out on the spot, these sources should defend themselves NOT have members defend them IMO.

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

I don't think that's an accurate analogy.

It's more like you having a backyard barbeque at your house where you invite your friends and neighbors to shoot the shit. But you seem to have this endless parade of unsolicited door-to-door salespeople stopping by all afternoon.

You have the salespeople selling magazines, solar panels, Tupperware. You have Jehovah's Witness. You have the Friends of Obama. Greenpeace canvassers. Etc. Etc.

Some people you just never answer the door. Others you open the door, listen to their spiel and promptly tell them to get the fuck out of here and never come back (even though they always do).

Some you will listen to their spiel and ask them 101 questions to challenge them. Maybe they will change your beliefs. Most of the time they won't.

A few will actually leave you tempted to buy their products/services.

The products may be exactly what you're looking for like that bikini/lingerie calendar for charity.

Or maybe they convinced you of some shared values such as the importance of family or their devotion to a shared religion. So they must be trustworthy.

Occasionally, you will even invite one of them into your home to share a beer even though it's always the biggest fucking mistake to even entertain the idea that they are one of you, that they are a friend or even worthy of sharing a beer with you. After all, they came to your house uninvited with the explicit goal of taking money from you.

Your friends may be warmed over by them. And your neighbors may even vouch for them. But then you realize that your neighbor isn't really your friend, you just invited them to your BBQ because it would have been awkward not to. And you learn the neighbor is getting kickbacks from door-to-door salesperson.

And the end of the day, you may feel that it may have been best never to have answered the door. Yet, you also realize that the experience taught you a lot, that you are wiser in the ways of the world, that you are more knowledgeable and less susceptible to anyone taking advantage of you in the future.

Great post, Millard. I agree with every word you've written, only you said it far more eloquently than I could. And it's nice to see you becoming involved in a more tangible way and using your wealth of experience to help and guide others to better understand the cesspool that is AAS sales.

It seems to be a daily occurrence to hear someone say gear dealers are not Walmart. I think that idea is a mistake in this sense: when people shop at Walmart or J.C. Penny, they view the transaction as nothing more than business. Nobody in their right mind thinks the entity that is "Walmart" is their "friend" There is no emotional attachment - people are aware that Walmart doesn't actually care about "their" well being. If the customer feels Walmart's service is substandard, they'll tell all their friends and go to J.C. Penny or wherever AND not feel the slightest bit disloyal.

With AAS sources, that awareness vanishes into thin air. You have sources calling the customer "bro;" you have customers calling the source "bro," in return; the "bros" start flying back and forth between customer and source as they shoot the shit, and before long, the customer believes they have an emotional connection with the source that implies a certain degree of trust exists. But, it's all an illusion. There is no trust.

What I'm trying to say is sources are NOT your friend. NEVER. It's a dire mistake to view them as such because it creates that false emotional connection/attachment and with that comes a false sense of security. People MUST view their dealings with sources the same as they do Walmart - dispassionately. It's just business - nothing more, nothing less.

Regards
CBS

 

[freak]

It's amazing how many people have heard of the Madoff Ponzi Scheme, but can't see some of the similarities of it being applied in the BB community by scamming ugls.

The sad thing in all of this is, some guys get it worse than just their money taken. They end up in the hospital with some serious medical problems from unsanitary labs.

 

[drockspang1]

Millard: I don't want to speak for "Bucky". But what I got out of his analogy... Meso forum is the guys house, and the ugl's are the freinds that have a garage sale everyday. In other words, and I too have questioned this: Why do you let labs come on here & make thousands of dollars, without any compensation? I have actually questioned whether or not this is 100% true. I have since "googled" who you are, and I have found out that you are far more legitimate(wrong word?) then just some gear head that started his own forum. But the question still remains. And again I'm speaking ONLY for myself. I can see how guys would question whether or not there is some sort of compensation "behind the scenes". Which you would certainly have every right to do. Just an observation.

Bucky: if that's not what you meant, then I misunderstood. My apologies.

 

[Millard]

Millard: I don't want to speak for "Bucky". But what I got out of his analogy... Meso forum is the guys house, and the ugl's are the freinds that have a garage sale everyday. In other words, and I too have questioned this: Why do you let labs come on here & make thousands of dollars, without any compensation? I have actually questioned whether or not this is 100% true. I have since "googled" who you are, and I have found out that you are far more legitimate(wrong word?) then just some gear head that started his own forum. But the question still remains. And again I'm speaking ONLY for myself. I can see how guys would question whether or not there is some sort of compensation "behind the scenes". Which you would certainly have every right to do. Just an observation.

Bucky: if that's not what you meant, then I misunderstood. My apologies.

That is how I understood Bucky's analogy as well. I don't think it's accurate.

In my response, I provided what I believed to be a much better analogy: the house is the MESO forum; the friends are the members/consumers; the door-to-door salespeople are the UGLs.

There is no compensation "behind the scenes". The disclosure for MESO are the banners advertisements seen on the website. That's it. There is nothing else. The revenue model for MESO is based on advertising. Look at the advertisers. If there is a potential conflict of interest, this is where it would come into play.

I will tell you that the sponsors have not influenced the promises made to members for this subforum i.e. "no one will be protected from the truth"; "opinions and experiences - good and bad - regarding steroid sources and underground labs (UGLs) will not be censored at all"; "members will not be banned for anything that is said about sources;" "the forum will be largely uncensored and unmoderated".

I could ask you to trust me.

Instead, I'd rather you listen to the thousands of eyes and hears on this forum that have monitored my actions and the manner in which this subforum has been managed since the beginning. Trust them. Not me.

Transparency keeps everyone honest.

 

[Millard]

Great post, Millard. I agree with every word you've written, only you said it far more eloquently than I could. And it's nice to see you becoming involved in a more tangible way and using your wealth of experience to help and guide others to better understand the cesspool that is AAS sales.

It seems to be a daily occurrence to hear someone say gear dealers are not Walmart. I think that idea is a mistake in this sense: when people shop at Walmart or J.C. Penny, they view the transaction as nothing more than business. Nobody in their right mind thinks the entity that is "Walmart" is their "friend" There is no emotional attachment - people are aware that Walmart doesn't actually care about "their" well being. If the customer feels Walmart's service is substandard, they'll tell all their friends and go to J.C. Penny or wherever AND not feel the slightest bit disloyal.

With AAS sources, that awareness vanishes into thin air. You have sources calling the customer "bro;" you have customers calling the source "bro," in return; the "bros" start flying back and forth between customer and source as they shoot the shit, and before long, the customer believes they have an emotional connection with the source that implies a certain degree of trust exists. But, it's all an illusion. There is no trust.

What I'm trying to say is sources are NOT your friend. NEVER. It's a dire mistake to view them as such because it creates that false emotional connection/attachment and with that comes a false sense of security. People MUST view their dealings with sources the same as they do Walmart - dispassionately. It's just business - nothing more, nothing less.

^^^ This. Incredibly insightful. Incredibly true.

This "emotional connection/attachment" is strange. I don't fully understand it.