For those of you on thyroid medication

[Chrisgj2]

Questions to help screen osteopath to ask receptionist (ask if you can talk to the doc to ask these questions).

1. Do you use the TSH and both free tests together?
2. Do you put symptoms above numbers?
3. Do you primarily use Armour Thyroid?
4. Do you have a maximum dose your prescribe for Armour?

The answer should be yes for 1 - 3.

question 4, you want the answer to be at the very least 2 grains, but really 2 1/2 grains or better. Call several DO's to find out who precribes more (you'll be lucky to find a DO that will give 3 grains or more). Keep in mind, anyone I've seen taking less than 3 grains was undertreated.

Your welcome,
Chris

 

[love_en]

If anything, I have suspected subclinical hyperthyroidism in myself. It is now clear that low cortisol contributes to thyroid toxicity. My TSH was 2.79 and I have no reason to suspect hypothyroidism.

 

[Chrisgj2]

Your TSH is high enough I think you need your frees tested. Above 2.20 and I start to suspect hypo, but if 2.5 or higher then I'm sure very sure.

Chris

If anything, I have suspected subclinical hyperthyroidism in myself. It is now clear that low cortisol contributes to thyroid toxicity. My TSH was 2.79 and I have no reason to suspect hypothyroidism.

 

[SPE]

Well, I got my serum cortisol lab back. At 8:45am, it was 17.4 range was 3.1-22.4. Do you see this as a problem Chris? My doc seems to think it's ok, so self treating with this one might be necessary. Let me know.

 

[love_en]

Its hard to say. Forgive me for butting in on a question you were asking Chris. The only way to know for certain if 17.4 is adequate adrenal production is the ACTH stim test. Your cortisol levels had better be higher than your baseline and double the base value.

One more thing, cortef tablets are hard to find on the open market. Prednisone is much easier because it is normally taken by allergy and asthma sufferers. Adrenal insufficiency is rare, but I think it is underdiagnosed.

 

[Chrisgj2]

The stim result is only part of the picture, but is very important. If the stim doubles from a low number that can happen in secondaries. My last stim (10 am) went from 20 - 24. A 4 pm stim 5 months earlier started at 10 and went to 19. A least 15 would be better for 4 pm, but the endo only looked at if doubled or not and being I'm secondary I was able to double then, but almost a half year later, my adrenal appeared to have atrophy from lack of ACTH.

I've seen people report their tests start at 5 and sextuple. The doc thought that was marvelous and didn't think that 5 was a very low number. They don't think that to go up so high likely means their adrenals still work just don't get the acth stim. When it comes to adrenal tests, most docs not only not have the knowledge, but also lack any common sense. Someone comes in complaining if weakness, fatigue and a year round tan they didn't get from the sun, the doc sees a stim that goes from 5 to 30, tells them their cortisol is fine, see a shink. I get so frustrated seeing this kind of thing over and over and over again.

SPE, 17 is pretty low for 8:45am. I've mentioned before 15 is probably the most common number I see. In, men I look for upper 20's at least at that time. The ranges are gotten from sick people. In putting together a range,the labs find the most common range that people have with the test that lab uses and that is how the lab gets the range (and that is why every hormone test range is flawed). THE PROBLEM WITH THE WAY THE RANGE IS GOTTEN IS THAT HEALTHY PEOPLE ARE NOT IN THAT GROUP, SO THE RANGES REALLY REPRESENT LEVELS OF ADRENAL INSUFFICIENCY, NOT HEALTHY LEVELS. SPE, you definately need the stim and ACTH serum. Consider you may need to find an osteopath. I don't think it's ok.

Chris

 

[Chrisgj2]

Addison's is rare (the worst adrenal insufficiency can get), but adrenal insufficiency is not rare at all, but is way underdiagnosed. For every 50 people on Addison's support groups, maybe 5 will truely have Addison's, the rest adrenal insufficient. Major diseases cause adrenal insufficiency and after a major operation most people will become adrenal insufficient for a time, so think how many with AI you can find in a hospital? Adrenal insufficiency is what causes PTSD (discovered 20 years ago) and there are a lot of PTSD sufferers out there.

Adrenal insufficiency is rare, but I think it is underdiagnosed.

 

[love_en]

It is rare according to doctors. Just as hypogonadism is rare. As with testosterone levels, the reference ranges for cortisol levels are drawn from people who are not 100% healthy. I wish there were this kind of chemical test for dopamine, serotonin and norepinepherine. SSRI and other neurotransmitter altering drugs are freely prescribed based on symptoms only. But heaven help someone who needs a cortisol or testosterone replacement. I read those articles that you posted links to. Knock on wood that I have never been injured or critically ill in my life. It would not occur to the average doctor that a hard to stabilize patient has an adrenal problem. Medicine has gotten so good at masking symptoms, yet so blind to the symptoms of an endocrine problem.

 

[Chrisgj2]

It's rare according to doctors because they are the ones underdiagnosising. Where did you hear hypogonadism is rare? That's another disease that is highly underdiagnosed.

Chris

 

[SPE]

The stim result is only part of the picture, but is very important. If the stim doubles from a low number that can happen in secondaries. My last stim (10 am) went from 20 - 24. A 4 pm stim 5 months earlier started at 10 and went to 19. A least 15 would be better for 4 pm, but the endo only looked at if doubled or not and being I'm secondary I was able to double then, but almost a half year later, my adrenal appeared to have atrophy from lack of ACTH.

I've seen people report their tests start at 5 and sextuple. The doc thought that was marvelous and didn't think that 5 was a very low number. They don't think that to go up so high likely means their adrenals still work just don't get the acth stim. When it comes to adrenal tests, most docs not only not have the knowledge, but also lack any common sense. Someone comes in complaining if weakness, fatigue and a year round tan they didn't get from the sun, the doc sees a stim that goes from 5 to 30, tells them their cortisol is fine, see a shink. I get so frustrated seeing this kind of thing over and over and over again.

SPE, 17 is pretty low for 8:45am. I've mentioned before 15 is probably the most common number I see. In, men I look for upper 20's at least at that time. The ranges are gotten from sick people. In putting together a range,the labs find the most common range that people have with the test that lab uses and that is how the lab gets the range (and that is why every hormone test range is flawed). THE PROBLEM WITH THE WAY THE RANGE IS GOTTEN IS THAT HEALTHY PEOPLE ARE NOT IN THAT GROUP, SO THE RANGES REALLY REPRESENT LEVELS OF ADRENAL INSUFFICIENCY, NOT HEALTHY LEVELS. SPE, you definately need the stim and ACTH serum. Consider you may need to find an osteopath. I don't think it's ok.

Chris

Chris, not to doubt what you are saying, but why would taking cortisol numbers from hospital patients skew the range downward? From one of the articles you posted, people going through something traumatic like having surgery, sends their levels higher than normal. If in fact these are how the ranges were determined, wouldn't you expect the range to be too high rather than too low? I mean, just because they aren't healthy it doesn't mean that they are suffering from AI. On a side note, I started taking maca powder at 3 tsp/day and have found it has helped alot with tolerating thyroid meds.

 

[androjello]

Which brand of Maca powder are you currently using?

 

[love_en]

It's rare according to doctors because they are the ones underdiagnosising. Where did you hear hypogonadism is rare? That's another disease that is highly underdiagnosed.

Chris

Diarrhea coming out of both my endo and my PCP's mouth. I find it hard to trust doctors after watching them minimize my obvious endocrine problems. If I were to walk into any high school here in Hawaii. I could find at least 10 boys in every school who are secondary hypogonadal like me and NONE of them will ever be treated for it. Another incorrect diagnosis is irritable bowel syndrome. That is commonly covered up with all kinds of drugs. That is the diagnosis that the doctor has stuck on my digestive problems. I now am curious as to how well I feel once my adrenals are supported.

The reason why the numbers for a cortisol test would be skewed low is because that kind of bloodwork is drawn from a patient in persistent and hard to treat shock. That test is only drawn if a doctor does not stubbornly believe that adrenal insufficiency is rare. Too many doctors have never seen or treated adrenal insufficiency. I keep on hearing stories in support groups of how people have been near death and the adrenals are never a suspect. When a person's adrenals are performing adequately, once an injury is repaired or an infection treated, recovery comes quickly. Those tests are also done on patients who are not dead or dying, but they feel like crap. So I agree with Chris there. We all know that test ranges for total testosterone are just as useless. Those numbers are obtained from people with problems. You do not see the prototypical adonis getting a total and free T drawn while he is at the doctor's office. If that were the case, it is highly unlikely that the cutoff for normal total T to start at 190ng/dl or some other ridiculously low number. I have said this many times: I would hate to be the guy who tests below that.

 

[SPE]

Which brand of Maca powder are you currently using?

Currently I'm using Imperial Gold. I did recently order a cheaper brand from www.therootofthematter.ca

 

[Motomatt]

I was diagnosised with irritable bowel syndrome about 20yrs ago,I've always had cold intolerence,I'm freezing when its below 50.I asked the Dr. to test my thyroid 20yrs ago and he said that i was fine.
A couple of months ago I had another blood test done and my free T3 was below normal on 1 grain armour 2x day(i started that a month earlier)so I went to 1.5 grains 2 x day, its been a month a that dose and I feel no better
should I increase the armour?

Another incorrect diagnosis is irritable bowel syndrome. That is commonly covered up with all kinds of drugs. That is the diagnosis that the doctor has stuck on my digestive problems. I now am curious as to how well I feel once my adrenals are supported

 

[Vforcer2]

I was diagnosised with irritable bowel syndrome about 20yrs ago,I've always had cold intolerence,I'm freezing when its below 50.I asked the Dr. to test my thyroid 20yrs ago and he said that i was fine.
A couple of months ago I had another blood test done and my free T3 was below normal on 1 grain armour 2x day(i started that a month earlier)so I went to 1.5 grains 2 x day, its been a month a that dose and I feel no better
should I increase the armour?

If you have IBS, then I would think, in theory, that you have absorption problems. Have you tried taking the Armour sublingually? Break it in a few pieces with your teeth and slide it under your tonge or between your cheek and gum. The taste is slightly sweet, so no problems of bitterness.

It is said that only about 29% (or so) of Armour is absorbed orally when swallowed. Then you take into consideration IBS, or a slow digestive system and bada bing, you have may have further issues absorbing it. If keep under the tounge you should get closer to 100% into the bloodstream pretty quick. I have tried it, and it does seem to make a difference in the way I feel.

 

[Motomatt]

thnx for reply I have done that from the start, I like the taste

Have you tried taking the Armour sublingually? Break it in a few pieces with your teeth and slide it under your tonge or between your cheek and gum. The taste is slightly sweet, so no problems of bitterness.

 

[cpeil2]

thnx for reply I have done that from the start, I like the taste

Sort of like bacon or pork rinds.