Frontloading!

[Sworder]

Here is the math for anybody that is switching from Testosterone E to Testosterone Prop.

Accounting for a 5 day HL for TE, considering previous injections from the week previous "Week -1" and the week before that "Week -2."
Key:
T=Tuesday injection of TE
F=Friday injection of TE
mT=Metabolized from Tuesday's injection Day 1
mF=Metabolized from Friday's injection Day 4
TE=testosterone Enanthate total metabolized each day from both T and F's Testosterone enanthate injection.
Week -1: The week previous to Day 1.
Week -2: The week previous to week -1.

RT=Raw testosterone, accounting for week -1 and -2 as well as ester weight.

So just look at the RT value and add whatever TP you want.

In the brackets I will put week -1 and week -2's testosterone enanthate's total. The TE total for week -1 and -2 will be in raw testosterone numbers. That is accounting for ester weight.

Day 1: T 250 mg metabolize mT 25mg
day 2: mT25mg
day 3: mT25
day 4:F 250 mT25 mF25 Total from TE: 50mg
day 5: mT25mg mF 25 TE:50mg
day 6: mT12.5 mF25 TE: 37.5mg
day 7: mT12.5 mF25 TE: 37.5mg
Weekly TE total: 250 (175 testosterone total)
[Week -1 109.4 testosterone + Week -2 36.575 testosterone, 146 mg]

RT: 321mg Testosterone

day 8: mT12.5 mF25 TE: 37.5mg
day 9: mT12.5 mF12.5 TE: 25mg
day 10: mT12.5 mF12.5 TE: 25mg
day 11: mT6.25mg mF12.5 TE:18.75mg
day 12: mT6.25mg mF12.5 TE:18.75mg
day 13: mT6.25mg mF12.5 TE:18.75mg
day 14: mT6.25mg mF6.25mg TE: 12.5mg

Weekly TE total: 156.25 (109.4 testosterone)
[Week -1 36.575 testosterone + Week -2 CBA to calculate this number it is going to be around 10mg, 46 mg testosterone]

RT: 155mg Testosterone

day 15: mT6.25mg mF6.25mg TE: 12.5mg
day 16: mT 3mg mF6.25mg TE: 9.25 mg
day 17: mT 3mg mF6.25mg TE: 9.25 mg
day 18: mT 3mg mF6.25mg TE: 9.25 mg
day 19: mT 3mg mF 3mg TE:6mg
day 20: mT 3mg mF 3mg TE:6mg
Total Weekly TE total: 52.25 mg (36.575 testosterone)

RT: 37 mg testosterone (not including week -1 and week -2's TE injections, it will be around 10 mg only)

I think the numbers are correct, feel free to double check.

 

[Sworder]

Blange89's quote taken from:Why you should not frontload

https://www.bluelight.org/xf/threads/%E2%AB%B8why-you-should-not-frontload%E2%AB%B7.802044/

Dont know if you guys have seen this, thought I would share.

In scientific literature "frontloading" is called "loading dose." It is a technique that has been done to reach steady state concentrations faster with drugs that have a long half life.

If you take the time to understand the technique fully there is no fear. It is just counter-intuitive to jab a large dose. Got to get over that uncertainty.

"Ignorance breeds fear."

 

[jJjburton]

Blange89's quote taken from:Why you should not frontload


In scientific literature "frontloading" is called "loading dose." It is a technique that has been done to reach steady state concentrations faster with drugs that have a long half life.

If you take the time to understand the technique fully there is no fear. It is just counter-intuitive to jab a large dose. Got to get over that uncertainty.

"Ignorance breeds fear."

Trying to get the best out of a cycle, or the most muscle building effects. Do you think frontloading it necessary?

 

[Sworder]

Trying to get the best out of a cycle, or the most muscle building effects. Do you think frontloading it necessary?

Oh yeah for sure!

Here is the thing that people don't take into consideration. In the beginning of a cycle when you are using long esters. The first couple weeks worth of gear goes to "waste." What I mean about that is that you are stuck in a sort of limbo between natural production and "full cycle strength."

The tail end of the long esters are going to go to waste if you are doing PCT no matter what.

Long esters have the advantage of being much cheaper than short esters, plus you have to inject less frequently.

If you don't "dare" to do a single frontload you can do other variations to get to the targeted steady state concentration. Double the dose the first week!

Many times people do this without knowing in PCT 40/20/20/20 is the same concept. I mentioned that earlier in this thread too.

The most important time to frontload is when you get a gyno flare and you want to use Nolvadex AKA tamoxifen citrate. Nolva has a 5 day half life! You want that stuff working quickly. At least I do

 

[jJjburton]

Oh yeah for sure!

Here is the thing that people don't take into consideration. In the beginning of a cycle when you are using long esters. The first couple weeks worth of gear goes to "waste." What I mean about that is that you are stuck in a sort of limbo between natural production and "full cycle strength."

The tail end of the long esters are going to go to waste if you are doing PCT no matter what.

Long esters have the advantage of being much cheaper than short esters, plus you have to inject less frequently.

If you don't "dare" to do a single frontload you can do other variations to get to the targeted steady state concentration. Double the dose the first week!

Many times people do this without knowing in PCT 40/20/20/20 is the same concept. I mentioned that earlier in this thread too.

The most important time to frontload is when you get a gyno flare and you want to use Nolvadex AKA tamoxifen citrate. Nolva has a 5 day half life! You want that stuff working quickly. At least I do

What if you are on TRT and not PCTing.

Would the fact that you are frontloading also bring upon a plateau faster as well? Or are there to many variables to answer a question like this?

 

[jJjburton]

Maybe if I said diet was the same, and exercise intensity and everything else remains the same, besides just the fact that you frontload or not?

Then would a frontload also make for a faster rate to reach a plateau?

 

[Sworder]

Maybe if I said diet was the same, and exercise intensity and everything else remains the same, besides just the fact that you frontload or not?

Then would a frontload also make for a faster rate to reach a plateau?

When you say plateau are you talking about a myostatin induced plateau?

 

[jJjburton]

When you say plateau are you talking about a myostatin induced plateau?

Yes.

 

[Sworder]

Yes.

Okay, yeah now things are getting complicated. Myostatin is incredibly amazing, I haven't wrapped my head around it completely.

Have you heard about metformin? Myostatin, insulin sensitivity, metformin, IGF and their relationship to each other is really interesting.

From what I have read about myostatin. Myostatin works on a separate "axis" if you want to call it that. It is more associated with insulin and GH than androgens.

To give you the short answer. Myostatin is mainly influenced by weight gain during a cycle. I have not found evidence that shows that androgens effect myostatin expression DIRECTLY however I could be wrong.

So, to answer your question. Frontloading will not blunt your gains by making you plateau faster. Cardio has been proven to help reduce myostatin too!
Myostatin Decreases with Aerobic Exercise and Associates with Insulin Resistance
Myostatin Decreases with Aerobic Exercise and Associates with Insulin Resistance



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The following studies are pretty interesting. They are pretty heavy.

AgRP Neurons Control Systemic Insulin Sensitivity via Myostatin Expression in Brown Adipose Tissue

AgRP Neurons Control Systemic Insulin Sensitivity via Myostatin Expression in Brown Adipose Tissue - ScienceDirect
Measurement of myostatin concentrations in human serum: Circulating concentrations in young and older men and effects of testosterone administration

Measurement of myostatin concentrations in human serum: Circulating concentrations in young and older men and effects of testosterone administration - ScienceDirect
Suppression of testosterone does not blunt mRNA expression of myoD, myogenin, IGF, myostatin or androgen receptor post strength training in humans
Error - Cookies Turned Off

 

[ManK]

If you don't "dare" to do a single frontload you can do other variations to get to the targeted steady state concentration. Double the dose the first week!

And it work fine?

 

[Sworder]

And it work fine?

You can double the dose on the first week instead of a front load, yes. I am talking about long esters, enanthate and cypionate at least. It is the same frontload concept but spread out a couple days.

 

[ManK]

Was talking about test and tren enanth.
Thank you Sworder.

 

[SaneDog]

Very good thread! Thanks for sharing with us man.

 

[ManK]

@Sworder reading the year when you started this post i can immagine you made frontloading a lot of times so i would like to ask for your experience which are (if any) negative aspects?For exemple starting with a such big dose have any effect on blood pressure?
thank you

 

[Sworder]

@Sworder reading the year when you started this post i can immagine you made frontloading a lot of times so i would like to ask for your experience which are (if any) negative aspects?For exemple starting with a such big dose have any effect on blood pressure?
thank you

I haven't had any negative experiences from frontloading.

I don't run crazy doses(1 gram+.) If somebody had a negative experience from frontloading it was probably because whatever target dose they wanted was too high.

Let's say somebody wants to do 1000 mg Testosterone E/week. That is a massive amount of testosterone/week, if you would frontload to achieve that level.
It isn't the frontload that causes issues, it is the fact that you want to be doing 1 gram of testosterone per week that is causing your issues.

I have had a lot of positive experiences using frontloading. I was in the hospital for over a month and my HCT went down to anemic levels. I frontloaded some EQ and my RBCs were back in normal range very quickly.

Any time I get a gyno flare I frontload Nolva and that helps reduce any issues.

Use frontloading to your advantage. If you guys are doing crazy high doses then it probably isn't best to frontload. You probably shouldn't be doing those high doses in the first place anyway unless you are on a national bb level, IMO.

 

[ManK]

I frontloaded some EQ and my RBCs were back in normal range very quickly.

This in my case is not very good :-D
I made some simulations on the website: https://roidcalc.powerbody.ru/?langid=8 (Steroid Calculator)
Before i Used Test and Tren Enanthate, after i used same amount of Test and Tren without frontloading and adding first 2 weeks 50 mg oral stanozolol: the result was similar.
What about this solution (oral kick start) as frontloading alternative?
Thank you Sworder

 

[Sworder]

This in my case is not very good :-D
I made some simulations on the website: https://roidcalc.powerbody.ru/?langid=8 (Steroid Calculator)
Before i Used Test and Tren Enanthate, after i used same amount of Test and Tren without frontloading and adding first 2 weeks 50 mg oral stanozolol: the result was similar.
What about this solution (oral kick start) as frontloading alternative?
Thank you Sworder

You can do a kick start as well! That works, personally I don't recommend them because I am not a fan of orals. You can use short esters as well as another alternative.
No problem, my friend!

 

[ManK]

You can do a kick start as well! That works, personally I don't recommend them because I am not a fan of orals. You can use short esters as well as another alternative.
No problem, my friend!

Me too, but for just 2 weeks i can accept them

 

[AlwaysHungry]

You frontload nolva how? and how it works

 

[Sworder]

You frontload nolva how? and how it works

I would say nolva is the biggest reason why frontloading is great. Nolva has a 5 day half life! Takes weeks to build it up without a frontload.

Tamoxifen Citrate(Nolvadex): 20 mg/day
120 mg on the first day.
Or you can do 70mg first day, 70 mg second day and then 20mg after that.
Or you can do 40mg/day the whole first week.