General Research - Ancillaries

[egruberman]

Hmm over seas or stateside? Ive always done a few of these to see whats up and always like haven options

I had mine done at Nebula Genomics. It was $250 for the 30x depth plus a monthly membership. One can cancel any time.

 

[Sicsemptyran]

Howdy folks!

Long time no talk. Just wanted to give an update on how things were going, have been lax about updating this thread and haven't put many of the labs I've gotten in here since I started the thread. Just did a very quick check in set of labs which I do every 2-4 weeks in between my much more comprehensive labs every 4-8 weeks.

I continue to think that bempedoic acid is a wonder drug frankly with its ability to not only lower LDL and do it with liver specific effects, completely avoiding the muscle/tendon issues of statins, as well as lower hematocrit.

It is absolutely not the right choice for everyone, especially if you have plaques that would benefit from the stabilization of statins or need more firepower from something like a PCSK9 inhibitor. But for a younger guy who has confirmed zero plaque and no lp(a), it does the trick for me with ezetimibe.

Currently running 400mg test/wk, 200mg primo/wk, 4IU's GH daily.

Hematocrit is stuck dead at 49
Fasting insulin is 3.4
Estradiol (with no AI) is 18.6.
CMP all normal, liver markers and kidneys look great


Total Cholesterol - 105
Trigs - 42
HDL - 38
VLDL - 11
LDL - 56 (down from 180s even on near zero fat diet to ~100 with ezetimibe, now here with ezetimibe + BA)

Didn't get ApoB or many of my other labs I normally would in my larger 4-8/wk labs, but it has always tracked predictably with my LDL with little surprises. On the next set I'll get all the goodies (IGF-1, ApoB, Hs-CRP, Cystatin-C, anything else fun I decide I want to see)

 

[Ghoul]

Howdy folks!

Long time no talk. Just wanted to give an update on how things were going, have been lax about updating this thread and haven't put many of the labs I've gotten in here since I started the thread. Just did a very quick check in set of labs which I do every 2-4 weeks in between my much more comprehensive labs every 4-8 weeks.

I continue to think that bempedoic acid is a wonder drug frankly with its ability to not only lower LDL and do it with liver specific effects, completely avoiding the muscle/tendon issues of statins, as well as lower hematocrit.

It is absolutely not the right choice for everyone, especially if you have plaques that would benefit from the stabilization of statins or need more firepower from something like a PCSK9 inhibitor. But for a younger guy who has confirmed zero plaque and no lp(a), it does the trick for me with ezetimibe.

Currently running 400mg test/wk, 200mg primo/wk, 4IU's GH daily.

Hematocrit is stuck dead at 49
Fasting insulin is 3.4
Estradiol (with no AI) is 18.6.
CMP all normal, liver markers and kidneys look great


Total Cholesterol - 105
Trigs - 42
HDL - 38
VLDL - 11
LDL - 56 (down from 180s even on near zero fat diet to ~100 with ezetimibe, now here with ezetimibe + BA)

Didn't get ApoB or many of my other labs I normally would in my larger 4-8/wk labs, but it has always tracked predictably with my LDL with little surprises. On the next set I'll get all the goodies (IGF-1, ApoB, Hs-CRP, Cystatin-C, anything else fun I decide I want to see)

What makes you think you have zero plaque? It's extremely unlikely with your previous LDL and gear use. Very good lipids now though.

If your CRP is below 1 and APOb below 60 you're reversing plaque now.

 

[Sicsemptyran]

What makes you think you have zero plaque? It's extremely unlikely with your previous LDL and gear use.

CT Angio with Cleery analysis, about as good as I am gonna get without sending in the probes.

Am not at all ignorant to the fact that given I'm on the younger side there's plenty of damage that could've been done and it's only a matter of time before the plaque appears, but given that I can get my LDL/ApoB as low as I do without a statin, there's no real reason for me to toss one in at this point.

Will continue to get imaging and upon first acknowledgement of plaque, will likely toss in a PCSK9/low dose statin. May jump to a PCSK9 just cause at some point as well, but enjoying the hematocrit buffering effects of bempedoic acid in the meantime!

 

[Ghoul]

CT Angio with Cleery analysis, about as good as I am gonna get without sending in the probes.

Am not at all ignorant to the fact that given I'm on the younger side there's plenty of damage that could've been done and it's only a matter of time before the plaque appears, but given that I can get my LDL/ApoB as low as I do without a statin, there's no real reason for me to toss one in at this point.

Will continue to get imaging and upon first acknowledgement of plaque, will likely toss in a PCSK9/low dose statin. May jump to a PCSK9 just cause at some point as well, but enjoying the hematocrit buffering effects of bempedoic acid in the meantime!

Just make sure CRP is below 1 and APOb below 60, while keeping LDL under 60 and you're not only not accumulating plaque, it's being reverse transported out of arteries.

If you ever need to resort to a statin, Pitavastatin is an atypical statin and by far the best in terms of extremely low levels of side effects.

 

[Sicsemptyran]

Just make sure CRP is below 1 and APOb below 60, while keeping LDL under 60 and you're not only not accumulating plaque, it's being reverse transported out of arteries.

I've been lucky that across fairly high loads and training (probably tested 15 times at this point), the highest I've seen CRP is .94 and that was the only one above .6 other than that, most of the time in the .3-4 range.

Will report back to see what it is at 600mg/anabolic load.

I'm considering dropping the primo since I frankly don't notice much from it other than it lowers my HDL to the 30s. Without it I'm in the 50s/60s.

I've considered recently layering in ultra low dose sema or tirz for additional anti-inflammatory effects, but my experiments with retatrutide even at ultra low doses frankly just destroyed my appetite (on supposedly the least appetite suppressing one!!) and I never loved the higher RHR. The RHR is totally psychological, it was never remotely high but coming from a running background I just didn't like it. Figured something absurdly low like .1mg/sema might be something to experiment with.

Given that my fasting insulin on 4IU HGH daily is 3.4 I'm not sure if it's overkill and I'm just falling prey to the "hype", but every study I read and discussion I have with the pharma execs I work with it seems like there's tons of upside for even the healthiest folks.

 

[Sicsemptyran]

If you ever need to resort to a statin, Pitavastatin is an atypical statin and by far the best in terms of extremely low levels of side effects.

Pitavastatin would definitely be the go-to thanks to having seen you mention it and then my follow up research. Seems like a lot of people would benefit from it, especially all the folks just being thrown on max dose statins per standard-of-care guidelines.

 

[Ghoul]

Pitavastatin would definitely be the go-to thanks to having seen you mention it and then my follow up research. Seems like a lot of people would benefit from it, especially all the folks just being thrown on max dose statins per standard-of-care guidelines.

It sounds like you're moving into longevity and health-span maximization, ideally started before issues develop.

Controlling lipids, blood pressure, inflammation, and insulin sensitivity are all thoroughly proven to maintain health over a lifetime. The hardest part is getting over pharmacophobia. While there are plenty of meds best avoided, and going to the leading edge meds involves additional risk, we now live in an era of extremely effective drugs for the above that have rock solid long term safety profiles.

You're right to want to incorporate a GLP that doesn't cause excessive appetite suppression for the anti inflammatory benefits.

Liraglitide is best for this, but requires daily injections.

With Sema, if you can titrate from .05mg for 2 weeks, to .1mg for 2, then .25mg and maintain that weekly dose you'll get 45% of the max anti inflammatory effects, and see a big drop in bio markers like HOMA-IR, CRP and because Sema unlike Tirz/Reta easily crosses the bbb, IL-6.

Add in daily low dose Selegeline (another long standing, safe compound) and you'll bring CNS inflammation induced brain aging nearly to a halt while it's still in the best condition it'll ever be.

Enough of a drop in CNS inflammation you should notice increased mental clarity and sleep benefits.

 

[AlexDavis43]

I've considered recently layering in ultra low dose sema or tirz for additional anti-inflammatory effects, but my experiments with retatrutide even at ultra low doses frankly just destroyed my appetite (on supposedly the least appetite suppressing one!!)

"on supposedly the least appetite suppressing one"

I don't know man

Might be a myth propagated on the forums ??

Bc clinical trials show weight loss with Reta is on par with other GLP1s; maybe a little less but not enough to suggest huge differences in appetite suppression

 

[Stealth500]

my appetite has tanked on reta. I find the suppression worse than tirz. I've had to lower my dosage twice.

 

[Sicsemptyran]

"on supposedly the least appetite suppressing one"

I don't know man

Might be a myth propagated on the forums ??

Bc clinical trials show weight loss with Reta is on par with other GLP1s; maybe a little less but not enough to suggest huge differences in appetite suppression

Oh for sure, I had meant it with a bit of sarcasm with the exclamation points though not clear at all. I have yet to be convinced it’s true that it is somehow night and day appetite suppression compared to the others. I get the glucagon agonism likely boosts the RMR a bit so there’s a theoretical case to be made that it could achieve the extra weight loss with less appetite suppression, but I really don’t buy it being that different than the others.

 

[Avies48]

I had mine done at Nebula Genomics. It was $250 for the 30x depth plus a monthly membership. One can cancel any time.

Hory chit the cost of this test is now like $1000 and upwards of 2k… wtf

 

[Liter O' Test]

It sounds like you're moving into longevity and health-span maximization, ideally

Add in daily low dose Selegeline (another long standing, safe compound) and you'll bring CNS inflammation induced brain aging nearly to a halt while it's still in the best condition it'll ever be.

Enough of a drop in CNS inflammation you should notice increased mental clarity and sleep benefits.

any other compounds i should look into for CNS?
I wanted to use ARA but the two vials i tried to reconstitute dont fully dissolve with 4-5m so thats on the backburner
im just doing coffee in the morning, glutathione and staying away from very androgenic compounds

 

[Avies48]

Howdy folks!

Long time no talk. Just wanted to give an update on how things were going, have been lax about updating this thread and haven't put many of the labs I've gotten in here since I started the thread. Just did a very quick check in set of labs which I do every 2-4 weeks in between my much more comprehensive labs every 4-8 weeks.

I continue to think that bempedoic acid is a wonder drug frankly with its ability to not only lower LDL and do it with liver specific effects, completely avoiding the muscle/tendon issues of statins, as well as lower hematocrit.

It is absolutely not the right choice for everyone, especially if you have plaques that would benefit from the stabilization of statins or need more firepower from something like a PCSK9 inhibitor. But for a younger guy who has confirmed zero plaque and no lp(a), it does the trick for me with ezetimibe.

Currently running 400mg test/wk, 200mg primo/wk, 4IU's GH daily.

Hematocrit is stuck dead at 49
Fasting insulin is 3.4
Estradiol (with no AI) is 18.6.
CMP all normal, liver markers and kidneys look great


Total Cholesterol - 105
Trigs - 42
HDL - 38
VLDL - 11
LDL - 56 (down from 180s even on near zero fat diet to ~100 with ezetimibe, now here with ezetimibe + BA)

Didn't get ApoB or many of my other labs I normally would in my larger 4-8/wk labs, but it has always tracked predictably with my LDL with little surprises. On the next set I'll get all the goodies (IGF-1, ApoB, Hs-CRP, Cystatin-C, anything else fun I decide I want to see)

The 2 sections ive put in bold are the reasons why i want to try it, but IF i happen to have plaques that require stabilization, thats the part i need to fork out the money for either prenuvo or cleerly….

Cholesterol is kinda high and has been for 20 yrs

 

[Ghoul]

any other compounds i should look into for CNS?
I wanted to use ARA but the two vials i tried to reconstitute dont fully dissolve with 4-5m so thats on the backburner
im just doing coffee in the morning, glutathione and staying away from very androgenic compounds

I was going to list off other OTC compounds but on reflection, since adherence is always the main issue with any protocol. I'd advise focusing on acquiring Selegiline and getting accustomed to that first.

It's such a heavy hitter when it comes to reducing reactive oxidants in the brain, nothing else even comes close. And there's a good reason to significantly lower, but not crush reactive oxidants.

2.5mg / day reduces them by ~40% and 5mg by ~55%. Unlike other compounds that neutralize CNS oxidants, Selegiline is the only one that prevents them at the source. By neutralizing MAO-B, dopamine isn't metabolized as quickly, and those metabolites are the primary source of destructive reactive oxidants species (ROS). You could use five other compounds and won't reach the level of ROS reduction of Selegeline alone.

MAO-B production increases with age, progressively boosting the quantity of ROS in the brain . Also, by destroying more and more dopamine in this process, weakening the reward system, leading to loss of motivation, pleasure, and gradually increasing the risk of serious depression. this is hypothesized as a common mechanism in many animals that evolved to "remove them from the herd" as they age. Vets give it to aging dogs, rejuvenating them back to normal activity and extending life for a while.

It can take some time to adjust to higher levels of dopamine, and while the effects, primarily on mood, energy, and motivation are positive, until receptors downregulate to compensate somewhat, it can lead to overstimulation, higher rhr, insomnia etc.

Once you have a low ROS environment in the brain, I'd focus on boosting BDNF, Brain Derived Neurotrophic Factor, the key protein for countering the tendency for white brain matter in the hippocampus to shrink, and stimulating neuroplasticity and regrowth (which can happen at any age).

Besides lifestyle factors (sleep, exercise) , the three big things that increase BDNF (and therefore hippocampus volume) are fish oil, along with maintaining top of the physiological range Testosterone and IGF-1.

Finally, you need low levels of ROS for BDNF to result in brain growth. If it's too low, or (far more often) too high, growth is suppressed, which is why you don't want to crush oxidants entirely.

 

[rexy]

I was going to list off other OTC compounds but on reflection, since adherence is always the main issue with any protocol. I'd advise focusing on acquiring Selegiline and getting accustomed to that first.

It's such a heavy hitter when it comes to reducing reactive oxidants in the brain, nothing else even comes close. And there's a good reason to significantly lower, but not crush reactive oxidants.

2.5mg / day reduces them by ~40% and 5mg by ~55%. Unlike other compounds that neutralize CNS oxidants, Selegiline is the only one that prevents them at the source. By neutralizing MAO-B, dopamine isn't metabolized as quickly, and those metabolites are the primary source of destructive reactive oxidants species (ROS). You could use five other compounds and won't reach the level of ROS reduction of Selegeline alone.

MAO-B production increases with age, boosting the quantity of these oxidants in the brain (and by destroying more and more dopamine, weakening the reward system, leading to loss of motivation, pleasure, and gradually increasing the risk of serious depression. this is hypothesized as a common mechanism in many animals that evolved to "remove them from the herd" as they age. Vets give it to aging dogs, rejuvenating them back to normal activity and extending life for a while).

It can take some time to adjust to higher levels of dopamine, and while the effects, primarily on mood, energy, and motivation are positive, until receptors downregulate to compensate somewhat, it can lead to overstimulation, higher rhr, insomnia etc.

Once you have a low ROS environment in the brain, I'd focus on boosting BDNF, Brain Derived Neurotrophic Factor, the key protein for countering the tendency for white brain matter in the hippocampus to shrink, and stimulating neuroplasticity and regrowth (which can happen at any age).

Besides lifestyle factors (sleep, exercise) , the three big things that increase BDNF (and therefore hippocampus volume) are fish oil, along with maintaining top of the physiological range Testosterone and IGF-1.

Finally, you need low levels of ROS for BDNF to result in brain growth. If it's too low, or (far more often) too high, growth is suppressed, which is why you don't want to crush oxidants entirely.

I thought i'd try Selegiline after seeing you'd commented about it elsewhere. Just found this thread. I've been on 5mg for about a month and I've definitely noticed my memory is improved even whilst using compounds which usually trash it (beta blockers and Tren, which I've been on since before starting and upped the dose of the Tren whilst on it, whilst seeing memory improve). Nothing else changed.

 

[rexy]

Besides lifestyle factors (sleep, exercise) , the three big things that increase BDNF (and therefore hippocampus volume) are fish oil, along with maintaining top of the physiological range Testosterone and IGF-1.

I should also add, seeing as you mentioned it at the end of the post, that I introduced fish oil at multiple grams of EPA/DHA starting about 3 months ago but I didn't notice the memory improvements until Selegiline.

I've also been on 10IU of HGH and swapped to IM about 3-4 weeks, just for transparency

 

[Ghoul]

I thought i'd try Selegiline after seeing you'd commented about it elsewhere. Just found this thread. I've been on 5mg for about a month and I've definitely noticed my memory is improved even whilst using compounds which usually trash it (beta blockers and Tren, which I've been on since before starting and upped the dose of the Tren whilst on it, whilst seeing memory improve). Nothing else changed.

A seriously underrated compound. It's taken for granted as a "base" in the longevity / anti-aging / biohacking community. Anti-aging telemedicine clinics will write prescriptions for it, though -$50 for 500 5mg tabs from India is so much more convienient.

It reminds me of early GLPs from 20 years ago. There were hints of many positive effects on health, including doctors casually observing diabetics on GLPs seemed to live longer, with less disease development, than same aged "healthy" non-diabetic patients not using GLPs.

Parkinson's patients seem to develop fewer neurodegenerative diseases, and report much greater quality of life and motivation when they're put on Selegiline. But studies on healthy subjects are virtually non-existent.

Animal studies pretty clearly show extended lifespans (the studies show mixed results, but overwhelming demonstrate longevity and greater motivation), and Veterinarian's have largely accepted it to "bring back" dogs that show classic "old age" symptoms like incontinence and other behavior issues that stem from loss of memory and motivation.

 

[rexy]

A seriously underrated compound. It's taken for granted as a "base" in the longevity / anti-aging / biohacking community. Anti-aging telemedicine clinics will write prescriptions for it, though -$50 for 500 5mg tabs from India is so much more convienient.

It reminds me of early GLPs from 20 years ago. There were hints of many positive effects on health, including doctors casually observing diabetics on GLPs seemed to live longer, with less disease development, than same aged "healthy" non-diabetic patients not using GLPs.

Parkinson's patients seem to develop fewer neurodegenerative diseases, and report much greater quality of life and motivation when they're put on Selegiline. But studies on healthy subjects are virtually non-existent.

Animal studies pretty clearly show extended lifespans (the studies show mixed results, but overwhelming demonstrate longevity and greater motivation), and Veterinarian's have largely accepted it to "bring back" dogs that show classic "old age" symptoms like incontinence and other behavior issues that stem from loss of memory and motivation.

I'm glad I just bulk ordered more yesterday on the final day of the PCT sale!!!

 

[Avies48]

I was going to list off other OTC compounds but on reflection, since adherence is always the main issue with any protocol. I'd advise focusing on acquiring Selegiline and getting accustomed to that first.

It's such a heavy hitter when it comes to reducing reactive oxidants in the brain, nothing else even comes close. And there's a good reason to significantly lower, but not crush reactive oxidants.

2.5mg / day reduces them by ~40% and 5mg by ~55%. Unlike other compounds that neutralize CNS oxidants, Selegiline is the only one that prevents them at the source. By neutralizing MAO-B, dopamine isn't metabolized as quickly, and those metabolites are the primary source of destructive reactive oxidants species (ROS). You could use five other compounds and won't reach the level of ROS reduction of Selegeline alone.

MAO-B production increases with age, progressively boosting the quantity of ROS in the brain . Also, by destroying more and more dopamine in this process, weakening the reward system, leading to loss of motivation, pleasure, and gradually increasing the risk of serious depression. this is hypothesized as a common mechanism in many animals that evolved to "remove them from the herd" as they age. Vets give it to aging dogs, rejuvenating them back to normal activity and extending life for a while.

It can take some time to adjust to higher levels of dopamine, and while the effects, primarily on mood, energy, and motivation are positive, until receptors downregulate to compensate somewhat, it can lead to overstimulation, higher rhr, insomnia etc.

Once you have a low ROS environment in the brain, I'd focus on boosting BDNF, Brain Derived Neurotrophic Factor, the key protein for countering the tendency for white brain matter in the hippocampus to shrink, and stimulating neuroplasticity and regrowth (which can happen at any age).

Besides lifestyle factors (sleep, exercise) , the three big things that increase BDNF (and therefore hippocampus volume) are fish oil, along with maintaining top of the physiological range Testosterone and IGF-1.

Finally, you need low levels of ROS for BDNF to result in brain growth. If it's too low, or (far more often) too high, growth is suppressed, which is why you don't want to crush oxidants entirely.

This stuff seems pretty amazing… treatment of Parkinson's and major depression disorder as well

I may have to take a look into this stuff!