GH, DNP, Test and Anavar (Pharmacom)

[canucklifter]

cutting cycle log

Starting @240lb, 6'2", ~20% BF.

Starting at:
W1-? pharmacom gh ED
W3-4 250mg DNP ED
W4-? 250mg Test E EW (pharmacom)
W4-? 50mg Anavar ED (pharmacom)
W4-? 40mg Nolva

John Meadows Creeping Death program
3x a week 30min LISS (HR 130-140)
1x a week 10min HIIT

Off day 2527 cal 343/157/59 P/C/F
On day 3007 cal 354/265/59

Daily supps
4g fish oil
400mg bio curcumin
600mg calcium
10000iu d3
300mg ALA
400iu vitamin E
1000mg vit C
ZMA
Garden of Life probiotic

Intra:
5g Creatine
20g Ea
40g Dextrose
Salt

Morning body temp averages 96F
Morning BP averages 132/72
Those numbers are from home measurements that do not match doc measurements. Temp is consistently too low and BP is consistently up 20. So they're useful day to day, not compared to other's numbers.

 

[canucklifter]

Two weeks into GH use, getting tons of huge (3-4") welts. Not using any antihistamine, want to see if it levels out.

Noticed an increase in fullness pretty quickly. Don't have access to bloodwork (NY State) so can't verify IGF levels or serum GH

Started cut with PSMF. Metabolism crashed this Tues so I refed and am now on the diet plan listed above.

Started DNP today. Will get daily AM pics, temperature, BP and weight.

 

[DonQKong]

Subbed

 

[canucklifter]

On day 3 of DNP, 15-ish of 2iu GH.

I won't be going into the gh much unless I find a way to get bloodwork since I'd just be talking out of my ass. I'm going to do a 10iu shot next time I reconstitute to see if I can 'feel' common sides like lethargy or water retention. That said, since this is my first ever gh use I don't have a 'feel' for it yet anyway. No offense to pharmacom, as their products have done me well so far, but I'll probably try a different brand next just to see if I can notice a difference. You can't really learn much about something if you only use one brand, ever.

DNP wise, dosing at 200mg a day.

'Official' diet start day was 9/4

Day 1 I noticed a minor heat increase about 30min after dosing. It felt like I was breathing hotter air, almost like being in a dry sauna.

Day 2 - Didn't get vitals this AM - I hadn't really noticed any sides. Maybe a bit more watery, maybe a bit hotter at night. I normally do cardio in a hoodie, I did it in a well-breathing tank and sweat my ass off, but it didn't really seem unusual. I generally sweat a lot. I feel a *bit* more general fatigue, but that's easily more placebo than anything.

Day 3 - Waking: BW 234.2 BP 137/71 Temp 96 - 1 hour post DNP: 96.5 but I do see +-.5F swings on this themometer within like 30s - No increase in body temp on waking. Still not feeling sides. Felt the 'sauna breath' again after dosing and feel a bit warmer... but warmer. Not 'hot'

Regarding DNP, as long as the scale is moving I'm not exactly chasing sides. I just wanted to document that at a low dose, this stuff really isn't crippling. I think a lot of the info comes from Bostin Loyd and Tony Hughes using high doses.

I'm not 100% sure how long I'll run it for. If I keep the dose @ 200mg I might go up to a month. Otherwise I might go up to 400mg after a week to see the effect there. But quite honestly if I can see a fat loss effect at 200mg the sides are such a joke I'll just stay here.

It's a bit weird that body temp isn't up, not sure if my thermometer is shit or my body is just doing a good job at cooling itself off even with the added heat. I mean, the faster I clock my CPU the more heat it generates, but temps are stable because I've got a ton of cooling on it.

12 days in I'm down ~6lb, but plenty of that was just water. I'll be able to see actual week to week fat loss progressions by next Friday.

 

[DonQKong]

Wise choice on low DNP. The first few years, I tore that DNP another asshole through high doses and lost 5lbs per day without going catabolic. But sides OMFG.
The last times, I've kept it at low dose, 150-250 ED, and it just keeps delivering. Slowly does it.

And day 4-5 after last dose is like Christmas Eve. "Where did those abs come from. They weren't there yesterday!" Lol

DQ

 

[canucklifter]

@DonQKong, yeah - I'm only three days in but I'm already seeing changes in shape day to day, and at my bodyfat level (high teens) I shouldn't be seeing that come in already.

did you combine anything with the dnp? T3/Clen/Ephedrine/Yohimbine etc

I want to give DNP a week or two at a stable dose to really gauge it's effects, but in the future want to try combining a low dose DNP, low dose clen and low dose yohimbine and see if there's a synergy since they all act on different systems. Heck, I want to throw in injectable l-carnitine too to just go all in but one thing at a time. I'd think you'd get an awesome synergy with yomimbine releasing fat, clen ramping up it's burn rate, carnitine helping the cells use the free fatty acids instead of glucose, and DNP to just make the whole system work a bit harder.

 

[DonQKong]

DNP is such a strong compound that I haven't really seen the need for testing power,-UPS and although I've been using all the clens and t3s snd yohimbine and ephedrine in both oral and injectable, nothing comes close to queen bee DNP.

If you are looking for a good complementary compound, these days, I'm all about that sibutramine, which helped me into the single digits BF without too much of a hassle really

DQ

 

[canucklifter]

interesting. never used sibutramine before but I've also never gone below 10% before, and im sure appetite will be ravenous by then - thanks for the tip!

 

[canucklifter]

This is last Friday pic, one day in to DNP so it's effectively a starting pic.

General update:

Took GH to 5iu on Sunday because I wanted to see if I could 'feel' sides. Well, nothing to report. However, I do feel far fuller than past cuts, which ostensibly I shouldn't have due to DNP. I'm holding water for sure, but was pumped as hell yesterday.

Since 4 days of 200mg DNP was showing no sides, on Sunday I decided to try 400mg. I planned to back down the dose if sides came up. Well, I'm running a tad hotter, but it's comparable to the heat on Tren + Clen. Im not sweating just sitting around, and sweat levels when active (LISS or weights) isn't much higher than normal. Night sweats are a bit less than Tren. I'm definitely more fatigued, though. Absolutely fucking gassed by 2-3pm.

In the interest of full disclosure, I blew my diet Sunday-Monday. I ended up at 10.5k calories Sunday, 8.5k Saturday and Monday. I was just mentally crushed and couldn't push through after PSMF for two weeks.

Now, feel free to comment 'if you can't stick to a diet you have no business with DNP', and that's true. But I don't want to ignore my fuckups on the thread.

Tuesday I was at 1200 calories, 1800 Wednesday and today will be 2.3k. After that much of a shitload I knew I could do a few days really low before I crashed again.

Learning was: don't be a hero. When you crank your metabolism up artificially, train two hours a day (40 cardio 1.2 weight) and starve yourself, you're mind doesn't work well and it's easy to fall off the wagon. At my current training load and DNP use, a 30% deficit is the maximum I can tolerate.

Going to be targeting 2600 cal on training days and 2k on off days from 300/200/60 - 300/100/60

 

[Marcus]

This is last Friday pic, one day in to DNP so it's effectively a starting pic.

General update:

Took GH to 5iu on Sunday because I wanted to see if I could 'feel' sides. Well, nothing to report. However, I do feel far fuller than past cuts, which ostensibly I shouldn't have due to DNP. I'm holding water for sure, but was pumped as hell yesterday.

Since 4 days of 200mg DNP was showing no sides, on Sunday I decided to try 400mg. I planned to back down the dose if sides came up. Well, I'm running a tad hotter, but it's comparable to the heat on Tren + Clen. Im not sweating just sitting around, and sweat levels when active (LISS or weights) isn't much higher than normal. Night sweats are a bit less than Tren. I'm definitely more fatigued, though. Absolutely fucking gassed by 2-3pm.

In the interest of full disclosure, I blew my diet Sunday-Monday. I ended up at 10.5k calories Sunday, 8.5k Saturday and Monday. I was just mentally crushed and couldn't push through after PSMF for two weeks.

Now, feel free to comment 'if you can't stick to a diet you have no business with DNP', and that's true. But I don't want to ignore my fuckups on the thread.

Tuesday I was at 1200 calories, 1800 Wednesday and today will be 2.3k. After that much of a shitload I knew I could do a few days really low before I crashed again.

Learning was: don't be a hero. When you crank your metabolism up artificially, train two hours a day (40 cardio 1.2 weight) and starve yourself, you're mind doesn't work well and it's easy to fall off the wagon. At my current training load and DNP use, a 30% deficit is the maximum I can tolerate.

Going to be targeting 2600 cal on training days and 2k on off days from 300/200/60 - 300/100/60

How long have you been training? And how long if that have you been enhanced?

 

[canucklifter]

How long have you been training? And how long if that have you been enhanced?

Training 13 years, enhanced for 1.5. Last 5 years as a powerlifter, still getting used to the bodybuilder diet and gear use.

 

[Marcus]

Training 13 years, enhanced for 1.5. Last 5 years as a powerlifter, still getting used to the bodybuilder diet and gear use.

I ask only because I was wondering why you are running DNP? It looks like you could diet down VERY easily without it, but also that you need a little more on your frame to really reap the aesthetic benefit from it

Edit: 6'2, 240 is a decent size even at 20% BF. Maybe it's the pic?

 

[canucklifter]

I ask only because I was wondering why you are running DNP? It looks like you could diet down VERY easily without it, but also that you need a little more on your frame to really reap the aesthetic benefit from it

I agree. Definitely don't need it. Could, and have in the past, pulled off 2lb a week with nothing more than diet.

I'd heard a lot about it, and wanted to try it. No better reason than that.

You could easily argue that the benefits I stand to gain are not enough to justify the risk. That opinion might be right. I decided my interest in trying it out outweighed the risk.

To illustrate: when powerlifting I used to cut more and more weight every competition, far more than I needed to to make a weight class. One time I went 225-212 for the 220 class. I did that because I was interested in learning how my body responded to different techniques. Same thing here. Intellectual curiosity.

Shitty reason to use a dangerous compound, but it's my reason nonetheless. That's why I got a physical/full blood work right before using it, take blood pressure, HR and temp several times a day.

 

[Marcus]

I agree. Definitely don't need it. Could, and have in the past, pulled off 2lb a week with nothing more than diet.

I'd heard a lot about it, and wanted to try it. No better reason than that.

You could easily argue that the benefits I stand to gain are not enough to justify the risk. That opinion might be right. I decided my interest in trying it out outweighed the risk.

To illustrate: when powerlifting I used to cut more and more weight every competition, far more than I needed to to make a weight class. One time I went 225-212 for the 220 class. I did that because I was interested in learning how my body responded to different techniques. Same thing here. Intellectual curiosity.

Shitty reason to use a dangerous compound, but it's my reason nonetheless. That's why I got a physical/full blood work right before using it, take blood pressure, HR and temp several times a day.

Hey, as long as your confident and in the know, experiment all you want. Will be following along!

 

[canucklifter]

After 7 days at 400mg I decided to try 600mg over the weekend. Had 400mg AM Friday, another 200mg PM. Then 400mg AM Saturday.

AM training was arms/shoulders/abs (all the random crap) and then 30 minutes of LISS cardio.

Definitely feeling weaker, almost no pump even though I had a cup of rice digesting and 40g dextrose in a shake.

Did 40 minute cardio after lifting and it was tough. Very, very sweaty at a low intensity. I was so fatigued I'd close my eyes then feel my balance start to drift a bit, so I had to make sure to keep my eyes open so I didn't fall over. I attribute this to hypoglycemia - not surprising because I was using dextrose intraworkout.

I'm not diabetic at all, have great insulin sensitivity, but I do get post workout hypo every now and again even without DNP. Back in the day I did a lot of mountaineering, one month long trip we underrationed food by a ton (lost 15 pounds body weight - not just scale weight - in a month), and was running on fumes the whole time. So I'm pretty comfortable with that extremely depleted feeling and just pushing through.

So, anyways, other than huge sweat and minor hypo (within a good safety margin) everything was fine.

I've noticed DNP doesn't increase my sweating just sitting around - but it does increase my heat from 30-90 minutes after eating. And that heat increase is greater the greater the dose. Even after eating low-carb. But everything is high protein so there's plenty of substrate to convert to glucose. Possible it's just converting the protein to glucose and that's driving the heat.

Had a bit of a scare taking another 200mg in the PM. But I can't confirm that it was from DNP, so take this with a grain of salt.

Took another 200mg at 3PM, for a daily total of 600mg. Plan was to take that Saturday and then go back to 400mg going forward.

About 1.5 hours after the PM dose, I was eating a standard meal - chicken / green beans / olive oil. About halfway through the meal I felt a minor swelling to my throat. It didn't get any worse, but it took three hours to clear up. Benadryl had no noticeable effect.

I of course tried to figure out what the cause was:

1. I usually feel DNP 30 minutes after ingestion. It seems to peak about an hour later. That ties out with all the human pharmacokinetic profiles I've found, but those are lacking.
2. I've got a cold right now, causing coughing and an iritated throat.
3. I have a strong allergy to dairy proteins. If I drink milk (or god forbid a protein shake), my throat will swell in a dose-response manner. A teaspoon of milk won't be deadly, but I'll feel it. However - I can generally eat cooked dairy or cheese fine. I get minor hives but no throat swelling. So I generally know how my body handles allergens
4. At age 10, I had an allergy test and had a minor allergy to chicken. I've been eating it regularly ever since. There's only one other time I can think of that I had an unexplainable allergic reaction after eating chicken. This is out of thousands of pounds of chicken consumed.
5. I AM having an immune reaction to GH - welting and localized swelling at injection site for 3-4 days.

So - I certainly don't feel comfortable saying it's the DNP. Current running hypothesis is that my body is just so overwhelmed with different shit (immune response to GH, throat/head cold, calorie restriction and hard ass training) that an allergic reaction was triggered by something that it generally tolerates fine - the chicken. I don't think it was the DNP acutely - because why would DNP cause a sudden anaphylactic response so far after ingestion, if blood levels had peaked so far earlier, 10 days into use? I think the body was overwhelmed, and the minor allergen (chicken) caused the sudden response (since the response happened literally as I was eating chicken.

So - I'm not touching DNP or chicken today, and I'm taking one benadryl a day to control any systemic histamine reaction. I'll wait until the cold is completely gone and then reasses the re-addition of both chicken and DNP.

I was on for 10 days, so it'll be interesting to see the scale weight changes over the next few days/week.

I weighed 230.8 this morning vs. 243 a week ago. I guarantee that 6-10 pounds of that are glycogen depletion, but I've never seen a water weight swing of from glycogen greater than 10lb.

 

[canucklifter]

Minor update: breakfast this morning (6:30AM) was 8oz flank steak, 150g green bean and 1 cup rice. I don't have an allergy to any of those (or at least, if I do, it's never presented before) and I have minor but detectable throat swelling again, even though I took a benadryl on waking.

So I think this feeds into the 'system is burned out, and having random allergic reactions to food' hypothesis. Not an allergy to DNP hypothesis. I know I still have blood levels of it - but the swelling was triggered by a meal, not an acute DNP dose.

No chicken was involved either. I'm reading up on allergic reactions now, because I had green beans for dinner last night with no issues, and I really doubt I have an allergy to plain white rice that magically appeared yesterday.

 

[canucklifter]

No more evidence of an allergic reaction since Sunday AM. I'm confident at this point it was just a very weird reaction to the throat virus - that the virus was irritation the throat and a bit of food just triggered the irritation.

A smarter person than me would stay off DNP and chicken "just to be safe". But after observing the symptoms I decided to readd both in isolation and check effects. I re-read everything I could find on DNP, including the full toxicology profile (all 200 damn pages of it) to find reference to anaphylaxis, and found only one anecdotal case on another forum. The toxicology profile does not reference anaphylaxis (and I trust it a bit more than a random forum anecdote), the most similar issue was hyperemic lungs (congestion of the lungs) in one overdose/death case. I had no lung congestion, just the throat irritation. Lungs were feeling fine, breathing was fine and not labored at all during the 'scare'.

So, 200mg DNP at 5AM today. No reaction by 10AM when I popped another 200mg (since I want to be stable on 400mg a day). No allergic or negative reactions at all, BP / HR / Temp are all stable. Also, had chicken today with no issues.

So all in all the scare seems pretty well isolated to a shitty throat virus. I'm back on 400mg DNP a day and plan to run at this dose for another 10 days (20 in total). Since I had pushed 600mg Fri/Sat my blood levels won't have dropped and should just be stable @ a 400mg equivalent dose. Will post progress pics this Friday.

Note to anyone reading this in the future - the takeaway isn't to be a hero when your throat swells up. It's to drop everything that might cause an issue, have 911 punched in to your phone and write down possible allergens (in my case, chicken and 2,4 Dinitrophenol) on a paper in case you get admitted but can't talk. And for gods sake have an epi pen if you have allergies.

And a final point... this shit was scary. When you're sitting there and thinking you might be having a serious, life-threatening allergic reaction to a toxin with a 36 hour half life you're not exactly feeling super chipper. DNP is serious shit. Don't let it's off-label use in BB make you think otherwise.

 

[Marcus]

No more evidence of an allergic reaction since Sunday AM. I'm confident at this point it was just a very weird reaction to the throat virus - that the virus was irritation the throat and a bit of food just triggered the irritation.

A smarter person than me would stay off DNP and chicken "just to be safe". But after observing the symptoms I decided to readd both in isolation and check effects. I re-read everything I could find on DNP, including the full toxicology profile (all 200 damn pages of it) to find reference to anaphylaxis, and found only one anecdotal case on another forum. The toxicology profile does not reference anaphylaxis (and I trust it a bit more than a random forum anecdote), the most similar issue was hyperemic lungs (congestion of the lungs) in one overdose/death case. I had no lung congestion, just the throat irritation. Lungs were feeling fine, breathing was fine and not labored at all during the 'scare'.

So, 200mg DNP at 5AM today. No reaction by 10AM when I popped another 200mg (since I want to be stable on 400mg a day). No allergic or negative reactions at all, BP / HR / Temp are all stable. Also, had chicken today with no issues.

So all in all the scare seems pretty well isolated to a shitty throat virus. I'm back on 400mg DNP a day and plan to run at this dose for another 10 days (20 in total). Since I had pushed 600mg Fri/Sat my blood levels won't have dropped and should just be stable @ a 400mg equivalent dose. Will post progress pics this Friday.

Note to anyone reading this in the future - the takeaway isn't to be a hero when your throat swells up. It's to drop everything that might cause an issue, have 911 punched in to your phone and write down possible allergens (in my case, chicken and 2,4 Dinitrophenol) on a paper in case you get admitted but can't talk. And for gods sake have an epi pen if you have allergies.

And a final point... this shit was scary. When you're sitting there and thinking you might be having a serious, life-threatening allergic reaction to a toxin with a 36 hour half life you're not exactly feeling super chipper. DNP is serious shit. Don't let it's off-label use in BB make you think otherwise.

Love the way you write this log... you work in the medical field no doubt?

Also, yes... you should stop DNP lol, but I know you're not gonna listen

 

[canucklifter]

Love the way you write this log... you work in the medical field no doubt?

Also, yes... you should stop DNP lol, but I know you're not gonna listen

Hehe no I'm just a nerd that reads and thinks too damn much. I work in software.

Plus I've been on forums long enough to know that if you don't list every single qualifying thing behind what you do you're going to get flamed. Probably still get flamed anyway...

Kind of funny that I do all this research and spend so much time a day to try to stay as healthy as possible but then throw a toxic yellow explosive dye on top of it

 

[Marcus]

Hehe no I'm just a nerd that reads and thinks too damn much. I work in software.

Plus I've been on forums long enough to know that if you don't list every single qualifying thing behind what you do you're going to get flamed. Probably still get flamed anyway...

Kind of funny that I do all this research and spend so much time a day to try to stay as healthy as possible but then throw a toxic yellow explosive dye on top of it

Well, I'm not a DNP fan myself, and I say that as someone who has never taken it LOL!! So I'll just judge... nah, I love reading about it though, and if you are going to do it right, you might as well research the hell out of it.

TBH, it was never really the overheating and dying thing that scared me, although that is scary, but few and far between. It's more other neurological side effects, along with the fact that there is no way I could take it and go to work, and I'm not taking time off work for DNP, so there is just no way I can fit that in my life.

One of those things that I guess is just not for me