Got an autoclave

[6Fingers-Pharma]

If you put sealed vials in an autoclave, nothing is being sterilized except the outside of the vial. Because, like you said, wet heat penetrates better than dry heat. Except the wet heat isn't penetrating a sealed vial is it?

 

[6Fingers-Pharma]

You understand the purpose of an autoclave bag, correct? It has sealed medical utensils for surgery. That are sterilized in an autoclave. When you take it out after the cycle, you look in at the scalpel, the scissors, and there is moisture in there with them because steam has entered through the bag. Why?? Because wet heat sterilization penetrates deeper than dry heat.
I don't mean any disrespect, but this advice you've given, what you've been doing, hasn't been sterilizing your gear anymore. You've been sterilizing the outside of the vial. Which is immediately recontaminated as soon as you pick it up.
To sterilize in an autoclave, the steam has to reach whatever has to be sterilized. End of story. If the vials are sealed, it accomplished nothing.

 

[Benny]

If you put sealed vials in an autoclave, nothing is being sterilized except the outside of the vial. Because, like you said, wet heat penetrates better than dry heat. Except the wet heat isn't penetrating a sealed vial is it?

At 250 degrees the idea is to hear the contents to kill anything that may have gotten by.

 

[6Fingers-Pharma]

it will not. You only need BA and a micron filter. trust me. Read more. You are not sterilizing anything more in there at all. Zero.

 

[6Fingers-Pharma]

Bill didn't mention it in his article did he? Listen to Bill if you don't believe me. He said BA and Micron filter. Nothing more

 

[fightingfires]

This has got to be the first manufacturer of hormones that I've ever come across referring to Bill's article. Coupled with impeccable english it seems odd. Every chinese raw supplier I've spoken with (been quite a few) haven't had nearly the command of english as this poster. Only saying its odd.

Did Bills article happen to say "don't do it" did it?

 

[6Fingers-Pharma]

Who in the fuck said I was Chinese?

 

[fightingfires]

and I think what Doc is getting at by moist heat is this (correct me if I am wrong here)
when you use dry hear with no air circulation a micro-climate eventually settles around the vial. The cold leaving the solution as it heats. Think Boyles law here. An autoclave using moist heat easily penetrates this micro-climate to get heat directly to the sides of the vial. I would think a convection oven would work too as it circulates the heat.

 

[fightingfires]

I'm a fucking manufacturer in China

my mistake....I made a connection I shouldn't of

 

[fightingfires]

Well OP....you have a few opinions here. No more time to waste on this for me....life's to short to waste it on this

 

[6Fingers-Pharma]

I would think it odd if a manufacturer you'd spoken to metioned his article as well, since it was published today. But regardless. I'm unsubscribing to this shit. I assure you, I'll not pipe in and offer my infantile knowledge on aseptic conditions. Keep baking gear in sealed vials. Best of luck

 

[Docd187123]

So you're saying you add BA to gear, push it thru a micron filter and into a sterilized vial, seal it up, and then autoclave it?

That's exactly what I do yes.

If you put sealed vials in an autoclave, nothing is being sterilized except the outside of the vial. Because, like you said, wet heat penetrates better than dry heat. Except the wet heat isn't penetrating a sealed vial is it?

The wet heat penetrates the vial heating the contents of the vial and further sterilized or ensures sterility. That's not difficult to understand.

From the World Health Organization:

Heating in an autoclave (steam sterilization)

Exposure of microorganisms to saturated steam under pressure in an autoclave achieves their destruction by the irreversible denaturation of enzymes and structural proteins. The temperature at which denaturation occurs varies inversely with the amount of water present. Sterilization in saturated steam thus requires precise control of time, temperature, and pressure. As displacement of the air by steam is unlikely to be readily achieved, the air should be evacuated from the autoclave before admission of steam. This method should be used whenever possible for aqueous preparations and for surgical dressings and medical devices.

The recommendations for sterilization in an autoclave are 15 minutes at 121-124 °C (200 kPa).1 The temperature should be used to control and monitor the process; the pressure is mainly used to obtain the required steam temperature. Alternative conditions, with different combinations of time and temperature, are given below.

1 1 atm = 101 325 Pa

Temperature
(°C)

Approximate
corresponding pressure
(kPa)

Minimum sterilization time
(min)

126-129

250 (~2.5 atm)

10

134-138

300 (~3.0 atm)

5

Minimum sterilization time should be measured from the moment when all the materials to be sterilized have reached the required temperature throughout. Monitoring the physical conditions within the autoclave during sterilization is essential. To provide the required information, temperature-monitoring probes should be inserted into representative containers, with additional probes placed in the load at the potentially coolest parts of the loaded chamber (as established in the course of the validation programme). The conditions should be within ±2 °C and ±10 kPa (±0.1 atm) of the required values. Each cycle should be recorded on a time-temperature chart or by other suitable means.

Aqueous solutions in glass containers usually reach thermal equilibrium within 10 minutes for volumes up to 100 mL and 20 minutes for volumes up to 1000 mL.

Porous loads, such as surgical dressings and related products, should be processed in an apparatus that ensures steam penetration. Most dressings are adequately sterilized by maintaining them at a temperature of 134 - 138 °C for 5 minutes.

In certain cases, glass, porcelain, or metal articles are sterilized at 121 - 124 °C for 20 minutes.

Fats and oils may be sterilized at 121 °C for 2 hours but, whenever possible, should be sterilized by dry heat.

In certain cases (e.g. thermolabile substances), sterilization may be carried out at temperatures below 121 °C, provided that the chosen combination of time and temperature has been validated. Lower temperatures offer a different level of sterilization; if this is evaluated in combination with the known microbial burden of the material before sterilization, the lower temperatures may be satisfactory. Specific conditions of temperature and time for certain preparations are stated in individual monographs.

The bioindicator strain proposed for validation of this sterilization process is: spores of Bacillus stearothermophilus (e.g. ATCC 7953 or CIP 52.81) for which the D-value (i.e. 90% reduction of the microbial population) is 1.5-2 minutes at 121 °C, using about 106 spores per indicator.

http://apps.who.int/phint/en/p/docf/

 

[6Fingers-Pharma]

Exposure of microorganisms to saturated steam under pressure in an autoclave achieves their destruction by the irreversible denaturation of enzymes and structural proteins.

LOL. This is from your very own post. Exposure of microorganisms to saturated steam under pressure. But since your vials are sealed, any microorganisms that might be in there are protected and safe.

This article that says water can be sterilized in containers. Those containers are not sealed vials. They are open.

Post all you want. You've misinterpreted what it's saying.

Direct contact aside, you understand it is heat AND pressure, correct? What causes the pressure in the autoclave? The expansion of water as steam.
But what causes pressure in the sealed vial then?
Please don't say the oil. Because it's not boiling or expanding. So how does it develop pressure inside? The sealed vial keeps the pressure from within the autoclave from affecting the internal area. Evident if you got the pressure high enough by implosion.

But I'm not going to argue with you.

Call any chemist or scientist or doctor and ask them. They explain to you.

Or better yet: do this:

GOOGLE: DO YOU AUTOCLAVE SEALED VIALS?

LOL Fucking classic.


Search Results

1. Autoclaving Laboratory Glassware - The Lab Depot, Inc.
   www.labdepotinc.com/articles/autoclaving-laboratory-glassware.html

Never autoclave a sealed vessel containing liquids as this may result in an explosion of ... The larger the volume of liquid the longer you should wait. ... Do not put hot glassware, especially large bottles, from an autoclave (or other heat source) ...


Autoclave?? [Archive] - MuscleChemistry.com | Bodybuilding's Best ...
www.musclechemistry.com › ... › Steroid Powder Recipe Forum
Jan 23, 2004 - 11 posts - ‎6 authors
You can not autoclave anything that is sealed i.e. closed amp or vial. ... Glass is safe in an autoclave providing you do not release the valve while the ... Pyrex glass (e.g. borosilicate serum vials) is perfectly autoclave-safe.

*******All those old stupid ass pros over at musclechemisty, wtf do they know?

http://www.research.northwestern.edu/ors/forms/bio-gen-autoclave-qc-policy-101110.pdf
http://www.research.northwestern.edu/.../bio-gen-auto...
Northwestern University
before removal. Controls for different brands of autoclaves will vary, so you should .... Do not stack or store combustible materials next to an autoclave (cardboard, plastic ... If closures are used on bottles, etc., they must be of the positive ... Never autoclave a sealed container of liquids as this may result in an explosion of.

Procedures for Decontamination by Autoclaving
http://www.ehss.vt.edu/programs/.../AutoclavingProcedures_4-18-08.pdf
DO NOT use the red bags that come with the. Regulated Medical ... Never put sealed containers in an autoclave. They can explode. Large bottles with narrow necks may also ... If you are using a CI with no pack, place it. WITHIN the load of ...

 

[6Fingers-Pharma]

There isn't a pharmaceutical company in the world that autoclaves sealed vials.
You misunderstood a process, which happens. We have all done it in life.
If you care to remain ignorant, then remain there. Please do not continue to post mistaken bullshit in this thread because I took notifications off but it keeps sending me fucking messages. And I will feel compelled to correct your mistakes when they are contradicting fact I know to be true.
You are known here. People trust you.
They deserve for you to take the time and talk with someone who knows.
Not make YOUR interpretation of what an article is saying.

 

[hotdog23]

Who in the fuck said I was Chinese?

You manufacture raw hormone powders? As in synthesize the parent compound and add desired ester?

Many of us would love to have your input on the manufacturing process if this is indeed true

 

[colossus25]

You manufacture raw hormone powders? As in synthesize the parent compound and add desired ester?

Many of us would love to have your input on the manufacturing process if this is indeed true

I honestly second this lol

 

[A-a-Ron]

View attachment 23912 picked up my last piece of the puzzle for my home brewing, shown here warming up running a test cycle. Being new to this, I want to make sure my thought process is right. My plan is to mix up my brew, heat and stir until clear, filter, place in properly prepped vials, install the sterilized caps and stoppers, and then run them in autoclave. It's my understanding that when pressure cooking like that I do not have to vent the vials. Any advice before I start is always appreciated.

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

So if the vials are sealed, what is the point of autoclaving?

Bc wet heat typically penetrates better than dry heat and is an effective method of sterilization.

Steam is what makes the sterilization process by autoclave effective but steam or wet heat CANNOT penetrate a sealed vial unless the seal is broken, and that will certainly ruin the gear.

Ive done it a bunch of times. Nothing you say here will happen at 15psi. NOTHING.

The risk of implosion due to the pressurized chamber of the autoclave is the least of your worries. The greatest risk is an explosion or cap blowing off due to the buildup of pressure within the sealed vial as its contents are heated. The risk is the same as heating sealed vials in an oven. The pressurized chamber can actually counter some of the vial's internal pressure, though not all of it.

Regardless, putting filled, sealed vials in an autoclave is pointless and risks ruining the batch. Asepsis MUST be achieved PRIOR to bottling.

 

[colossus25]

Steam is what makes the sterilization process by autoclave effective but steam or wet heat CANNOT penetrate a sealed vial unless the seal is broken, and that will certainly ruin the gear.



The risk of implosion due to the pressurized chamber of the autoclave is the least of your worries. The greatest risk is an explosion or cap blowing off due to the buildup of pressure within the sealed vial as its contents are heated. The risk is the same as heating sealed vials in an oven. The pressurized chamber can actually counter some of the vial's internal pressure, though not all of it.

Regardless, putting filled, sealed vials in an autoclave is pointless and risks ruining the batch. Asepsis MUST be achieved PRIOR to bottling.

I asked this question to one of my friends at the gym a little while ago who is a medical tech, well i guess is what you would call him, and he said flat out said you NEVER put anything pressurized in an autoclave what so ever. Emphasis on the never....

 

[Docd187123]

Steam is what makes the sterilization process by autoclave effective but steam or wet heat CANNOT penetrate a sealed vial unless the seal is broken, and that will certainly ruin the gear.



The risk of implosion due to the pressurized chamber of the autoclave is the least of your worries. The greatest risk is an explosion or cap blowing off due to the buildup of pressure within the sealed vial as its contents are heated. The risk is the same as heating sealed vials in an oven. The pressurized chamber can actually counter some of the vial's internal pressure, though not all of it.

Regardless, putting filled, sealed vials in an autoclave is pointless and risks ruining the batch. Asepsis MUST be achieved PRIOR to bottling.

The autoclaving is an extra precautionary measure. Of course you'd strive for asepsis before bottling.

Wet heat/steam beats the glass vial which in turn heats the contents inside. It does not have to come in direct contact with what's inside the vial.

I believe you're bowling the risk of implosion and caps blowing off. We are not overfilling the vials and there's plenty of head space for the vial not to explode. The first time I brewed I had ordered the wrong crimper for my flip tops so I wasn't able to use it to seal the vials. I used a Knife and spoon to crimp the tops and stoppers on. You could say it was a poor crimp so some of the internal pressure of the vial was allowed to dissipate but the crimp was good enough to not let any moisture enter the vials so I doubt it was due to that. Here's a company in the pharmaceutical industry on autoclaving closed containers

http://www.telstar-lifesciences.com...cycles with differential pressure control.htm