"Heavy drop-sets"

[Deleted member 123722]

Since I train 6x a week, PPLPPL off, so I don't do much volume. I basically do two exercises and working sets per body part, except for legs and back that gets three exercises. Usually I just do two straight sets to failure, after my warm up.

But I was messing around with this for two weeks, trying to sneak a bit more "density" in the routine.

1-2 warm ups until I get to my Top set weight to hit 8 reps.

Second working set: 6-8 reps of same weight, hit technical failure; drop weight, do another 5-6 reps; drop weight, again, and do another 5-6 reps.

Usually people do a top set and a back off set of a higher rep with lower weight, but in this model, I'm doing 5-6 reps, that are all effective reps to technical failure for more total reps.

I do this on all exercises. Idk if this has another name for it, or others have done this.

Feels good, and recovered fine by the next session.

Just sharing this if anyone wanted to try it.

 

[BigTomJ]

this is a solid plan, and its not all that complicated.

youre hitting failure, then using an intensifier technique (the drop set)

ive done similar in the past when i ran PPL, but with rest pause instead of a drop set

 

[Mac11wildcat]

Using intensifiers is my preferred method. Density is far better than volume IMO.

I do mine with rest pause, but a drop works jsut as well. In my case I'm doing my top set with the intensifier on it and then a backdown straight set.

Just make sure you add intensifiers slowly. For instance I just took a step up from my base plan and all that means is ONE intensified set per muscle group/movement type per day, so usually 3 total sets per day getting a single rest pause. Minimum effective dose.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

Just to clarify, when I mean by technical failure, I mean when perfect form breaks; I could prob squeeze out another 1-2 reps, but they would be "grinders" and would fry me completely; so I do that 1-2 RIR thing; and the drop sets I also don't go beyond failure, either. I will stop 1-2 rep shy of total failure.

Mike Israetel is a big fan of Myoreps and myorep match sets, which I guess is basically the same as rest pause, but you match your last set's reps range.

 

[laclark89]

I always ramp and drop "pyramid" even when I did alot of calisthenics, it just feels right to my body , I have to warm up way more than u guys with my ramp sets or I'll tear something, dont know if it's my labor intensive work or I just have weaker tendons and ligaments,but I've heard pros like Nasser and jay say ramp and drop always.

 

[laclark89]

Using intensifiers is my preferred method. Density is far better than volume IMO.

I do mine with rest pause, but a drop works jsut as well. In my case I'm doing my top set with the intensifier on it and then a backdown straight set.

Just make sure you add intensifiers slowly. For instance I just took a step up from my base plan and all that means is ONE intensified set per muscle group/movement type per day, so usually 3 total sets per day getting a single rest pause. Minimum effective dose.

I've read alot of ur posts respect ur opinion. and I know u preach the high intensity stuff , low volume. I know it works for some people but u can u honestly say that but your physique? The hugest guys at my gym don't lift heavy or low volume , and I've heard mike and ray mentzer 45 min work outs then, other body builders who actually trained with them at the period, franco columbo an ric drasin said ray and mike would be at the gym when they got there and they where at the gym when he left. Then guys like nasser say u have to train heavy as long as u can and u can always drop the weight and do more sets,"volume" ? Then u got mike Isratel saying u wana get big u gota do heavy weight for high reps? Where is the line drawn?

 

[Deleted member 123722]

I've read alot of ur posts respect ur opinion. and I know u preach the high intensity stuff , low volume. I know it works for some people but u can u honestly say that but your physique? The hugest guys at my gym don't lift heavy or low volume , and I've heard mike and ray mentzer 45 min work outs then, other body builders who actually trained with them at the period, franco columbo an ric drasin said ray and mike would be at the gym when they got there and they where at the gym when he left. Then guys like nasser say u have to train heavy as long as u can and u can always drop the weight and do more sets,"volume" ? Then u got mike Isratel saying u wana get big u gota do heavy weight for high reps? Where is the line drawn?

I've done every style and they all work.

What matters it was feels right for your body and what you enjoy to do; these two leads to consistency, which is the key to progress and growth.

 

[laclark89]

Exactly my point I have too, i just have a feeling in the end it takes a combination of everything to get fully developed ,an people may pick 1 side not realizing they actually are doing both? Like who goes super heavy low reps on rear delts?

 

[RiceNKimchi]

I just did this yesterday. I call it pyramids. 145 225 275 315 and back down. My chest really doesn't get sore but I feel like if I keep pushing it I'm over training doing this. Let me know if it's horrible lol

 

[Type-IIx]

PPL 6 day split, Israetel referenced, and you don't think you do a lot of volume? Bet you do 3X more than is necessary.

Define "recovered fine by next session."

 

[Deleted member 123722]

PPL 6 day split, Israetel referenced, and you don't think you do a lot of volume? Bet you do 3X more than is necessary.

Define "recovered fine by next session."

I've done RPE volume training before; I'm not doing it right now. No way I would be recovered doing that.

I'm doing low-volume, but higher frequency and intensity, going to failure with density techniques right now.

I.E. my push day
Chest gets: 2 exercises; 2 total working sets each
Shoulders: 3 exercise (one for each delt) 2 working sets each
Triceps: 2 exercise, 2 working sets each.

Now double this as I do this twice a week.

This is literally nothing compared to what I was doing with RPE, higher-volume not going to failure until the last week of the meso.

"Recovered" next session is my performance is not hindered nor am I sore or fatigued.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

I just did this yesterday. I call it pyramids. 145 225 275 315 and back down. My chest really doesn't get sore but I feel like if I keep pushing it I'm over training doing this. Let me know if it's horrible lol

If you're doing 145, 225, 275, 315, then 315, 275, 225, 145, I think the last half is a "waste" of energy if you're doing straight sets and resting in between each. You basically did eight sets, using your energy that could have been better "spent" with less sets with a heavier weight.

But I don't know how many reps you're doing with the top set

 

[Mac11wildcat]

I've read alot of ur posts respect ur opinion. and I know u preach the high intensity stuff , low volume. I know it works for some people but u can u honestly say that but your physique? The hugest guys at my gym don't lift heavy or low volume , and I've heard mike and ray mentzer 45 min work outs then, other body builders who actually trained with them at the period, franco columbo an ric drasin said ray and mike would be at the gym when they got there and they where at the gym when he left. Then guys like nasser say u have to train heavy as long as u can and u can always drop the weight and do more sets,"volume" ? Then u got mike Isratel saying u wana get big u gota do heavy weight for high reps? Where is the line drawn?

My physique progressed well on doing most everything under the sun. However, 8-10 years in, that rarely continues. And I'm still packing on muscle 10 years and 120lbs in with this training style. I think it should probably be home base for most lifters. Start there and then try other things. You'll never be served poorly by learning to train with great execution to true failure

 

[RiceNKimchi]

If you're doing 145, 225, 275, 315, then 315, 275, 225, 145, I think the last half is a "waste" of energy if you're doing straight sets and resting in between each. You basically did eight sets, using your energy that could have been better "spent" with less sets with a heavier weight.

But I don't know how many reps you're doing with the top set

I have 1 to 2 minute max rest. Just enough time to drop the weight off and get back on. I've been training alone so no spot. 145 225 x10, 275x8, 315x4.. then drop set till I feel I can't do another one without failure... iirc it was 275x5 225x6 145x8

*Not hitting 315 for 2 sets

 

[RiceNKimchi]

I am trying to gain some strength to get to PR 405 so I will try anything if this isn't productive

 

[Deleted member 123722]

I am trying to gain some strength to get to PR 405 so I will try anything if this isn't productive

Oh. If you're doing strength training, I wouldn't know much about that, so ignore my advice.

 

[BigTomJ]

I've read alot of ur posts respect ur opinion. and I know u preach the high intensity stuff , low volume. I know it works for some people but u can u honestly say that but your physique? The hugest guys at my gym don't lift heavy or low volume , and I've heard mike and ray mentzer 45 min work outs then, other body builders who actually trained with them at the period, franco columbo an ric drasin said ray and mike would be at the gym when they got there and they where at the gym when he left. Then guys like nasser say u have to train heavy as long as u can and u can always drop the weight and do more sets,"volume" ? Then u got mike Isratel saying u wana get big u gota do heavy weight for high reps? Where is the line drawn?

I intensity and volume aren't mutually exclusive, also intensity has no baring on weight used for the movement.

High intensity training is not "high weight low reps or low volume"



Give this a read

Training for Hypertrophy: The function of Intensity, Volume, Recovery and Injury Prevention

The following is an article I wrote for UGBB, and i believe it would provide some value here as well. There has been a lot of debate on the subject of Hypertrophy in regards to training to failure, reps in reserve methodologies, volume, and injury risk. From what ive witnessed is a lot of...

thinksteroids.com

Tldr volume is adjusted to match recovery intervals, intensity isn't adjusted to hit some arbitrary volume.

 

[Type-IIx]

I've done RPE volume training before; I'm not doing it right now. No way I would be recovered doing that.

I'm doing low-volume, but higher frequency and intensity, going to failure with density techniques right now.

I.E. my push day
Chest gets: 2 exercises; 2 total working sets each
Shoulders: 3 exercise (one for each delt) 2 working sets each
Triceps: 2 exercise, 2 working sets each.

Now double this as I do this twice a week.

This is literally nothing compared to what I was doing with RPE, higher-volume not going to failure until the last week of the meso.

"Recovered" next session is my performance is not hindered nor am I sore or fatigued.

Define performance.

How many weeks has it been at this, including the use of intensifiers in this manner?

 

[Type-IIx]

I intensity and volume aren't mutually exclusive, also intensity has no baring on weight used for the movement.

High intensity training is not "high weight low reps or low volume"



Give this a read

Training for Hypertrophy: The function of Intensity, Volume, Recovery and Injury Prevention

The following is an article I wrote for UGBB, and i believe it would provide some value here as well. There has been a lot of debate on the subject of Hypertrophy in regards to training to failure, reps in reserve methodologies, volume, and injury risk. From what ive witnessed is a lot of...

thinksteroids.com

Tldr volume is adjusted to match recovery intervals, intensity isn't adjusted to hit some arbitrary volume.

This shows that there is more than one way to skin a cat, because I absolutely define (absolute) intensity as load (weight used) & therefore intensity and volume as reciprocal.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

Define performance.

How many weeks has it been at this, including the use of intensifiers in this manner?

That when I go into the gym, I'm either maintaining the rep range or exceeding it. Right now I am cutting so just maintain my strength and all is a win.

It has only been two weeks using these intensifiers.

I'm going on vacation this Thurs-Mon, so I'll be taking off training and dieting completely. I planned it this way; I've been dieting and training since March 1st without a real break. So tomorrow I'll train legs then off until Monday.