High SHBG , low free T help

@perlanera123

Yeah that’s basically it but I also did all the natural stuff:


Magnesium levels
Copper levels
Selenium levels
Zinc levels
Iron levels
Boron levels and supplemented
At least 200g of carbs a day
At least 200g of protein a day
Vitamin B,C,K, and D
Cut my caffeine down to 80mg a day
Eating 2,700 calories
Checked thyroid - 3 times
Checked liver function, no NAFLD test
 
Everything you wrote have great importance for me.

basically this means that as long as you were on anavar/hcg you felt good as soon as you came off it you felt like shit because the SHBG went up immediately while the T didn't go up at the same speed. I think because at that point you had to do a real PCT once you came off Anavar.

My level:

T TOTAL 675 NG/DL
SHBG 51,8 NMOL/LT
ALBUMIN 4,70
E2 27,7

I tried an 8 week cycle of just proviron 25mg per day after my level:

T TOTAL 505 NG/DL
SHBG 46 NMOL/LT
ALBUMIN 4,70
E2 21,9

I've been off for a month and I honestly haven't felt any big differences. today I did the new blood tests to see the values, I will update you

You took 25mg proviron for 8 weeks just to free up some test while being natty and your SHBG came back at almost same levels? Am i getting this right? How sure you are about your proviron source? Was it pharma or UGL?
 
You took 25mg proviron for 8 weeks just to free up some test while being natty and your SHBG came back at almost same levels? Am i getting this right? How sure you are about your proviron source? Was it pharma or UGL?

I think it works differently for folks. For me it took me from 110 to 70. Kinda stopped working on my SHBG at one point, FSH kept going up though, so it was legit. Also the libido help was only temporary.

I think it has something to do with DHT balance. I’ve read guys were hyper responders and it crushes SHBG and some guys with Pharma Proviron doesn’t do much.
 
I think it works differently for folks. For me it took me from 110 to 70. Kinda stopped working on my SHBG at one point, FSH kept going up though, so it was legit. Also the libido help was only temporary.

I think it has something to do with DHT balance. I’ve read guys were hyper responders and it crushes SHBG and some guys with Pharma Proviron doesn’t do much.


Depends on how much u use though, 25mg for some can do wonders and for others nothing. I know some run it as high as 150 per day, especially last weeks pre contest while others take 50-75 every day for long period of times. These numbers though don't reflect to natty guys, i guess going high on proviron would help short term with freeing test but eventually it's going to suppress your TT. I really have no idea why some have so high SHBG, you think it's genetically? I know thyroid function affects SHBG but there i can't help any further
 
Hai preso 25 mg di proviron per 8 settimane solo per liberarti di qualche test pur essendo cattivo e il tuo SHBG è tornato quasi agli stessi livelli? Ho capito bene? Quanto sei sicuro della fonte del tuo proviron? Era farmaceutico o UGL?
hi I tested proviron and it is 100% legit.

The main mechanism of proviron (mesterolone) is not to lower SHBG but to bind to shbg to release more testosterone, I believe that in my case and that of alkyn89 the testosterone under proviron has lowered simply because our body regulates testosterone based to circulating SHBG.

All of this can be really frustrating! Because from the scientific documentation nothing else justifies the increase in shbg, but if they have increased surely there is some deficiency or reaction that escapes us somewhere... obviously the quickest thing to solve is to go to TRT or start a Cycle and reset everything with a pct,

up to 50mg/75mg there is no direct testosterone suppression with proviron

both me and alkyn89 did the same test without taking any other anabolic/androgen

I'll do some more testing and let you know
 
Yeah it was weird it Proviron only lowered me from 110 SHBG to 70. Total went from 1100 to like 800 I think it was, then it stopped working. FSH kept going higher and higher.


All that to say when I took anavar too, my total and SHBG seem to be correlated. Dropped my total test super fast and a month after while my SHBG stayed suppressed so did my total T, somewhere around 320 ng/dl.

Wife got pregnant and I’ve been on TRT. Getting my first labs done in a couple of weeks at the 6 week mark. 150mg a week doses M W F. I already feel worlds better in and out of the gym. A little worried my hematocrit will get worse but I’ll know soon enough.
 
Surprisingly I had a lot more suppression than I thought I would...Studies were saying folks usually see 45% suppression on average in 6 weeks, well....

My total test went from 1100 ng/dl to 416 ng/dl in 2 weeks on 23.5mg a daily.
Again SHBG went from 70 nmol to 23 nmol.

Important to note I was using 500 IU of HCG 3x a week.

Never the less the experiment continues, I'll check back in about 3 weeks to see how SHBG is doing, and see how much my total has rebounded.

Well yeah, you weren't just using var, you were also using HCG, which is suppressive. However, one could expect a 50% suppression with 25 mg's of var only.

A high shbg is indicative of overtraining and is indicative of burnout, stress, etc. A good measure of OTS, what @Type-IIx mentioned is free testosterone to cortisol ratio. Both shbg and free T - cortisol are useful measures, plenty of literature on the topic, but for example:




You can measure other biomarkers as mentioned in urine, etc. But also immune system takes a hit in OTS, insufficient adrenals, or just the whole HPA axis is dysregulated, etc. Lot's of ways to prove to one self that he is overreached if subjective observations fail. One good biomarker is also heart rate variability (HRV), if you have a fitness watch like fitbit, that's a good indicator of sympathetic - parasympathetic balance.

It does seem like you chose drugs ("TRT") so you can keep living your life style instead of changing your life style to better suite your health. This is starting to happen way to often in our society ...

Btw, how did your iron panel look like? And have you checked inflammation and the immune system? Speaking from experience, having high SHBG does not necessarily mean you are completely wasted and without energy, that still sounds like overreaching.
 
Iron checked, that was a bit on the high side. Donated a few times and got it right where you would want it.

Cortisol was bad but, I got it in line after switching teams at work to something less stressful.

I did use a small dose of HCG with the Anavar but I had 60% suppression within 2 weeks, studies shown that rate of suppression at way longer uses. Half that 2 weeks was at 12.5mg because I couldn’t stomach the anxiety I got from a full 25. Just like the Proviron SHBG goes down, total test did too. Also suppression continued a month after discontinuation even after 2 weeks of using enclomiphene. LH and FSH were both about a 5, and I still had 320 total test and a free of 3.

Inflammatory and Immune markers were great after I dialed it back. Thyroid good too.

HRV and RHR were all in line after taking it easy the past year.

Adrenals never bounced back despite supplementing.

I’m fully aware I had OTS but after a year and 3 months taking it easy and taking care of myself I never seemed to rebound.

Not being able to recover from lifting 2times a week ( at a very low volume) and jogging 2-3 times a week is hardly continuing an unsustainable lifestyle….Im 34 not 60.
 
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Iron checked, that was a bit on the high side. Donated a few times and got it right where you would want it.

Cortisol was bad but, I got it in line. Measured it first thing in the AM, eventually got it in range after switching teams at work to something less stressful.

I did use a small dose of HCG with the Anavar but I had 60% suppression within I think 2 weeks, studies shown that rate of suppression at way longer uses. Half that 2 weeks was at 12.5mg because I couldn’t stomach the anxiety I got from a full 25. Just like the Proviron SHBG goes down, total test did too. Also suppression continued a month after discontinuation even after 2 weeks of using enclomiphene. LH and FSH were both about a 5, and I still had 320 total test and a free of 3.

Inflammatory and Immune markers were great after I dialed it back. Thyroid good too.

HRV and RHR were all in line after taking it easy the past year.

I’m fully aware I had OTS but after a year and 3 months taking it easy and taking care of myself I never seemed to rebound.

Not being able to recover from lifting 2times a week ( at a very low volume) and jogging 2-3 times a week is hardly continuing an unsustainable lifestyle….Im 34 not 60.

Share your iron panel. Imbalances in iron regulation are usually there for a reason. Also, TSAT and SHBG have a strong negative correlation. High TSAT brings SHBG up due to androgen - hepcidin relation. If you have issues with iron regulation, they wont get better with trt.

What immunological workup have you done?
 
Last time I pulled my iron labs were back in December of 2023. I think I had donated blood one more time after these labs end of December.

129 mcg/dl for iron
344 mcg/dl for TIBC
% saturation was 38%.

For immune system and inflammation
C-reactive protein: .31 mg/L
IgG: Can't find the lab I had it done but it was in line. I recall the doc calling it out saying it was good.

I also recall her calling out a couple of other markers saying if I had inflammation they would have showed up there, can't recall what they were.
 

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Last time I pulled my iron labs were back in December of 2023. I think I had donated blood one more time after these labs end of December.

129 mcg/dl for iron
344 mcg/dl for TIBC
% saturation was 38%.

For immune system and inflammation
C-reactive protein: .31 mg/L
IgG: Can't find the lab I had it done but it was in line. I recall the doc calling it out saying it was good.

I also recall her calling out a couple of other markers saying if I had inflammation they would have showed up there, can't recall what they were.

And iron panel before donations? And where is ferritin?
 
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And iron panel before donations? And where is ferritin?
Ferritin on that test was 100 ng/ml


These are after 1 donation, I never checked pre donation as I didn't know about the TSAT correlation yet.

I checked only iron and ferritin levels I did not have saturation checked:

Iron: 175 mcg/dl
Ferritin: 173 ng/ml
 

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Ferritin on that test was 100 ng/ml


These are after 1 donation, I never checked pre donation as I didn't know about the TSAT correlation yet.

I checked only iron and ferritin levels I did not have saturation checked:

Iron: 175 mcg/dl
Ferritin: 173 ng/ml

Khm, I don't think I understand why exactly you donated blood? Your iron levels were ok.
 
Khm, I don't think I understand why exactly you donated blood? Your iron levels were ok.
I donated because I had high-ish hematocrit and hemoglobin when taking enclomphiene. I had a 54 and 17.8 respectively so the doc said to give donations a whirl. I did at first then, figured out it wasn't sustainable.

Yes I understand SERMS won't lower SHBG just raise it but I was trying to find some sort of relief until I found the source of my issue. The initial take was if I can raise my total, I can raise my free enough to get some symptom relief....which worked to a degree but then ended up tanking my IGF-1 resulting in even worse sleep than before.

Also I found videos of guys with high SHBG with high iron levels. Figured a donation or two was worth a shot if I was towards the upper end of the ref range.
 
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I donated because I had high-ish hematocrit and hemoglobin when taking enclomphiene. I had a 54 and 17.8 respectively so the doc said to give donations a whirl. I did at first then, figured out it wasn't sustainable.

Yes I understand SERMS won't lower SHBG just raise it but I was trying to find some sort of relief until I found the source of my issue. The initial take was if I can raise my total, I can raise my free enough to get some symptom relief....which worked to a degree but then ended up tanking my IGF-1 resulting in even worse sleep than before.

Also I found videos of guys with high SHBG with high iron levels. Figured a donation or two was worth a shot if I was towards the upper end of the ref range.

Hm, a hematocrit of 54 with FT levels in the middle of the range?, sounds like something's off. Has your hematocrit been borderline high before the serms?

Fyi igg levels is only measure of the immune system. You did not check your immune system.

How is your gut?
 
Hematocrit and RBC were over the reference range before ever taking anything.

Starting
RBC 5.89
Hematocrit of 50.4%

I am awaiting the results of a sleep study, took the test on Tuesday night. Wouldn’t surprise me if I did have sleep apnea. I had serious sinus problems as a kid. I also was fighting competitively for 6 years prior to taking it easy. I haven’t had problems with sinus infections or anything like that how I used to.


Gut health historically not so good, I had 5 sinus surgeries as a young adult, leading up to them I had been on prednisone and other steroids for years on end. Doctors told me it would ruin my gut bacteria but they had no choice. I had ulcers at 24.

The last 9-12 months I have been taking gut health more seriously. Last 6 months I take a pro and prebiotic. For the past year I focused on eating mostly whole foods, not much processed. Gut feels better then it ever has. I still have my Friday bad meal with processed foods and some sweets but 90% of my food intake is whole foods. Meat, fish, veggies and fruit. Bloating has subsided. I am a bit on the chunkier side since I have been raising my calories over the last year and a half. I was eating about 2,650 calories daily but starting to slim back down.

FWIW I do believe I hadn’t been hydrating as much as I should. Could also explain elevated hematocrit. I started drinking at least a gallon of fluids a day. Half a gallon is a mix of water and electrolytes daily. Been doing that for 6 weeks, I’ll see if it has any impact.

What markers for immune system do you recommend checking? I might have had them checked at my physical.
 
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Hematocrit and RBC were over the reference range before ever taking anything.

Starting
RBC 5.89
Hematocrit of 50.4%

I am awaiting the results of a sleep study, took the test on Tuesday night. Wouldn’t surprise me if I did have sleep apnea. I had serious sinus problems as a kid. I also was fighting competitively for 6 years prior to taking it easy. I haven’t had problems with sinus infections or anything like that how I used to.


Gut health historically not so good, I had 5 sinus surgeries as a young adult, leading up to them I had been on prednisone and other steroids for years on end. Doctors told me it would ruin my gut bacteria but they had no choice. I had ulcers at 24.

The last 9-12 months I have been taking gut health more seriously. Last 6 months I take a pro and prebiotic. For the past year I focused on eating mostly whole foods, not much processed. Gut feels better then it ever has. I still have my Friday bad meal with processed foods and some sweets but 90% of my food intake is whole foods. Meat, fish, veggies and fruit. Bloating has subsided. I am a bit on the chunkier side since I have been raising my calories over the last year and a half. I was eating about 2,650 calories daily but starting to slim back down.

FWIW I do believe I hadn’t been hydrating as much as I should. Could also explain elevated hematocrit. I started drinking at least a gallon of fluids a day. Half a gallon is a mix of water and electrolytes daily. Been doing that for 6 weeks, I’ll see if it has any impact.

What markers for immune system do you recommend checking? I might have had them checked at my physical.

Mild "dehydration" wouldn't affect your hematocrit that much.

You might have sleep apnea yes, or you might have some sort of hematopathology (which I'm leaning more towards). You should look into this further, especially now that you've gone the trt route (and 160mg's sounds like a lot for actual trt, which should fall more in to 75 - 125 mg range), which has a chance of, or should I say "will" amplify such issues. I'd also keep an eye on TSAT. 38% right after 3 donations (or was it just one) means it was most probably over 45% before the donations, which means some sort of iron overload issues (doing genetics might be smart idea). Reticulated hemoglobin is a good marker for your actual iron status, however, high TSAT will push your shbg up no matter. The higher the TSAT the higher the shbg. Iron overload could (probably is) also be tied to high hematocrit and rbc's. Checking your EPO would be a good idea as your RBC's are high and your reticulocyte number too.

Immune system, basic tests are: protein electrophoresis, immunoglobulins (M, D, G, ...), IGG1 through 4, and then more in depth; a cytokine panel, and immunotyping your B and T leukocyte subsets. I doubt you have any autoimmune issues, your crp is low, but you can check ANA and Anti-dsdna.

I wont delve in to gut issues, but know that it can tax your liver, for instance due to high endotoxin burden, which can elevate shbg up. Iron overload can also tax your liver, even if ferritin is low, if tsat is high, that probably means a high labile iron load, which means - oxidative stress. There was research done on patient's livers who also had gut issues. Liver biopsies revealed problems, while basic liver tests were normal.

I'm going to back off now, as this is getting to exhaustive, more like a consultation or something. I hope this helps and furthers your research!
 
Thanks @Jin23 if you ever want to make a couple extra bucks happy to pay for an hour of your time to chat some more. This has been more exhaustive than the visits to the 2 different clinics and GP over the last year and some change.

What trips me up about the TSAT, and iron overload is, wouldn't I have seen a decrease in SHBG after donations? It never had a meaningful impact. While on the SERMS I always sat around 1100 total test with a SHBG of 70-100. The only thing that seems to move SHBG higher was when I would exercise more. None of the natural solutions seemed to move it lower than 70. Pre SERMS it sat at a 68.

I'm going to check my EPO, and immune markers. Depending on the sleep study results, I probably will go see a Hematologist.
 
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Thanks @Jin23 Depending on the sleep study results, I probably will go see a Hematologist.

Exactly what I would have recommended and yes, a drop in tsat after donations should lowered your shbg but you would have had to monitor shbg and tsat more closely to truly determine the donations effects.
 
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