High SHBG , low free T help

[Alyk89]

Hey all,

Was hoping to get some advice on what could be causing my high SHBG and low free T. I have been fighting with this issue over the last year. It has been going probably longer.

Over the past 2 years after hanging up the gloves I have felt symptoms of low t. It's like I live in a permanent fight camp body.

Symtomps
- ED even with something like a viagra or cialis (previously up until 31 had crazy high sex drive no erectile issues)
Hairloss
- 0 energy, I went from 2-4 hours of exercise a day to cant get off the couch after work. Previoulsy my friends called me a robot because I could keep going and going.
- Trouble sleeping


Exercise
34 year old
205lbs - 14% BF
Previously a competitive fighter. Very active, run 3-4times a week and lift 3-4times a week. Mileage over the last year has varied from 10-35miles per week. Lifting has varied from 2x a week to 4x a week. Focused on compound movements really heavy.

Diet
Minimum 2,200 calories a day
200 grams of carbs
70 grams of fat
200 grams of protein
Mostly eat fruit from my carbs 40-80 grams a day come from rice, pasta or potatoes the rest is fruit. This really has helped my IGF-1. This super tidy up diet has been going on for 2 months now. Previously it was pretty good macro wise, just not micro nutrient wise.

Medical
I've looked into a lot of things with my doc through blood work, they claim
• Healthy thyroid
• Healthy liver
• Healthy iron levels
• No boron deficiency
• DHEA deficient - I have been supplementing with 100mg a day for the last year, getting close to being bottom of hte range
• Vit D is great - upper range
• Super stressful job

Baseline numbers
Total T: 797 ng/dl
Free T: 83.9 pg/ml
Albumin: 4.7 g/dl
SHBG: 92

I have hopped on enclompihene to raise my total test to overcome the free test issue however, even with a total T of 1300 ng/dl I have never gotten my free T over 121 pgml other than 1 time when it hit 160pml after reducing running. However after upping my mileage to about 25miles per week and lifting 2x a week it fell back to 110pg/ml.

Albumin has steadily been 4.6 - 4.7


Is there anything else I can try here? Doc seems to think it is genetic with me.
Is the running just driving me into the ground? Was I overtrained from all the fight camps and never fully recovered?

 

[RichardSilva]

Hey Alyk,

I appreciate your detailed post and the effort you've put into understanding your situation. Dealing with high SHBG and low free T can be challenging, but I'm sure we can work through this together.

Firstly, it's great that you've been proactive in assessing various aspects such as thyroid health, liver function, iron levels, and more. Your baseline numbers, especially the Total T at 797 ng/dl, are solid, but I understand the frustration with the persistently low free T.

Here are a few thoughts and questions:

1. Lifestyle Changes: Considering your history as a competitive fighter and your intense exercise routine, have you considered incorporating more rest days or implementing a less strenuous workout regimen temporarily to see if it impacts your hormone levels?
2. Sleep Quality: You mentioned trouble sleeping. Quality sleep is crucial for hormonal balance. Have you tried any sleep optimization strategies like maintaining a consistent sleep schedule, creating a relaxing bedtime routine, or exploring supplements that support sleep?
3. Stress Management: You highlighted a super stressful job. Managing stress is pivotal for hormonal health. Are you practicing stress-reducing techniques, and have you explored any adaptogenic herbs or supplements?
4. Enclomiphene: It's interesting that enclomiphene has boosted your total T but hasn't significantly impacted free T. Have you discussed this with your doctor, and is there a plan to adjust or try alternative interventions?
5. Dietary Adjustments: Your diet seems well-structured, but have you considered consulting a nutritionist to explore any potential micronutrient deficiencies that might be affecting your hormone balance?

I'm not a medical professional, but these are just a few considerations that come to mind. It might be beneficial to consult with a specialist who can delve deeper into your specific case. Keep us posted on your journey, and let's continue supporting each other through this process.

 

[MA11]

Hi RichardSilva,

I appreciate the use of chatGPT but it doesn't change the fact that your answer is both useless and dumb.

I'm not a medical professional, but have you considered to stay away from the internet and drink a daily Japanese ceremonial tea for a while?

 

[MA11]

But now @ OP:

High SHBG sucks and I do not believe that you can significantly lower it long-term with lifestyle changes or supplements. The ones who persistently claimed they lowered their SHBH with (ridiculous amounts of) boron or whatever tend to be snake oil sellers.

Did enclomiphene raise your SHBG that high? Or what was the effect of enclomiphene on it?

TRT lowers SHBG consistently.

Mesterolone (Proviron) is known for this effect also. However, you won't find anyone who used this long-term, solo, in the right amount and did blood work. So this is all bro science / guessing.
I myself would love to try that at some point.

Also I do not know how you survive on 2200 kcal with that high workload.

 

[RichardSilva]

Why do you think this?

 

[rask1123]

Hey all,

Was hoping to get some advice on what could be causing my high SHBG and low free T. I have been fighting with this issue over the last year. It has been going probably longer.

Over the past 2 years after hanging up the gloves I have felt symptoms of low t. It's like I live in a permanent fight camp body.

Symtomps
- ED even with something like a viagra or cialis (previously up until 31 had crazy high sex drive no erectile issues)
Hairloss
- 0 energy, I went from 2-4 hours of exercise a day to cant get off the couch after work. Previoulsy my friends called me a robot because I could keep going and going.
- Trouble sleeping


Exercise
34 year old
205lbs - 14% BF
Previously a competitive fighter. Very active, run 3-4times a week and lift 3-4times a week. Mileage over the last year has varied from 10-35miles per week. Lifting has varied from 2x a week to 4x a week. Focused on compound movements really heavy.

Diet
Minimum 2,200 calories a day
200 grams of carbs
70 grams of fat
200 grams of protein
Mostly eat fruit from my carbs 40-80 grams a day come from rice, pasta or potatoes the rest is fruit. This really has helped my IGF-1. This super tidy up diet has been going on for 2 months now. Previously it was pretty good macro wise, just not micro nutrient wise.

Medical
I've looked into a lot of things with my doc through blood work, they claim
• Healthy thyroid
• Healthy liver
• Healthy iron levels
• No boron deficiency
• DHEA deficient - I have been supplementing with 100mg a day for the last year, getting close to being bottom of hte range
• Vit D is great - upper range
• Super stressful job

Baseline numbers
Total T: 797 ng/dl
Free T: 83.9 pg/ml
Albumin: 4.7 g/dl
SHBG: 92

I have hopped on enclompihene to raise my total test to overcome the free test issue however, even with a total T of 1300 ng/dl I have never gotten my free T over 121 pgml other than 1 time when it hit 160pml after reducing running. However after upping my mileage to about 25miles per week and lifting 2x a week it fell back to 110pg/ml.

Albumin has steadily been 4.6 - 4.7


Is there anything else I can try here? Doc seems to think it is genetic with me.
Is the running just driving me into the ground? Was I overtrained from all the fight camps and never fully recovered?

There's something else you can try. Any steroids other then testosterone greatly decrease SHBG. T as well but there are some debates about dosages

So 10mg a day of stan/anavar/dbol/oxy will help you with that, or small amount of injection.
It will slightly suppress your own T, but with much lower SHBG and higher Free T you must feel better.

 

[Alyk89]

Hey all, thanks for the responses.



I just got my bloodwork back for Zinc and DHT...my DHT is actually double the reference range. I read somewhere low DHT could cause low free T but that doesnt seem to be the issue.

@MA11 My SHBG has actually lowered from when I first got labs done without Enclo. My first SHBG test was a 95nmol with a total T of 800 ng/dl. On enclo and higher test of 1,000 - 1250 ng/dl it sits around 65 - 75... So some of the lifestyle and dietary changes have helped somewhat but not enough. I think upping my calories and eating cleaner while reducing my aerobic and anaerobic training load has helped.

The only time I was able to get my free test up to 161 pg/ml with a total test of 1145 ng/dl I was only running 3x a week for 30min in zone 2.

I am going to reduce my running to 2x and retest my levels in 2-3 weeks.

@rask1123 I am actually trying to conceive with my wife so the TRT and anavar are a no go right now, hence I will probably order some proviron over the next couple of days from a UGL. However a clinic and one doctor have prescribed me the TRT when I'm ready.

I had 1 clinic and 1 doctor prescribe me TRT after I checked a million and one things...they basically think it's either stress related and or genetic. I've checked for so many macro and micro nutrient deficiencies.

The only thing I could think of is my body never recovered from over training after I stopped fighting since I basically went straight into marathon training and never took a real break after.

I'll keep this thread updated after I check my labs in 2-3 weeks. If they dont get better I'll get some UGL proviron and go that route.

 

[MA11]

My wife and I are trying to conceive also and that's why I stay away from test right now.
I don't know how long you try already but have you done a sperm analysis?

Mesterolone (proviron) used to be a fertility and 'HRT' drug in the 80s and 90s but unfortunately with mediocre success. I'd love to try it myself.

 

[Alyk89]

@MA11 we have just started to try this month. We were waiting basically for the end of this year. I haven’t had an analysis hopefully it just happens naturally. We figure we try for a year and then if it doesn’t happen go through the other steps like looking into sperm analysis, IVF etc.

 

[MA11]

Good luck then!
If you decide to add drugs, I would suggest you do a sperm analysis so you know at least if your stuff helps or not.

 

[Type-IIx]

Are you using kratom, or any opiate/opioid drugs?

DHT elevations are interesting, suggesting some sort of shunting of androgen secretion, perhaps from adrenal sources, towards 5α-reductase. Nothing comes to mind without you providing a full listing of supplements and drugs you're taking.

 

[Type-IIx]

Theoretically, overtraining syndrome (OTS) in its parasympathetic (Addisonoid) form might affect adrenal androgen secretion. The etiology of this is controversial, it might differ between activities that induce it (e.g., have particular power vs. endurance forms). There are few reliable markers, but decreased urinary noradrenaline excretion (sensitive to high training volumes) & increased exercise-induced catecholamine response to high-intensity resistance training are two.

Essentially, in Addisinoid OTS, there is decreased sympathetic activity with parasympathetic activity predominating at rest and with activity, the 40 - 70% decrease of nocturnal urinary catecholamine excretion is similar to patients with autonomic sympathetic insufficiency:
- low resting heart rate
- rapid heart rate recovery post-exercise
- hypoglyceaemia peri-exercise
- decreased maximal plasma lactate peri-exercise
- decreased catecholamine levels

What I am saying is that if you severely overtrained for a long time, this sort of thing might theoretically occur.

 

[Alyk89]

No drugs now however maybe 17 years ago I was prescribed opiates for several years straight due to some issues with my sinuses and many many surgeries.


Supplements:

DHEA: 100mg
Vit D: 5000iu
Methylation supplement
Anastrazole: 1x weekly .25mg
Enclomiphene: 12.5mg 3x weekly.


I did get so recent blood work back. Reducing my mileage for just a week again drove my free test back up to 150 pgml.

I’m going to quit running for a few weeks and see how high I go on my free test. I’m starting to think I never recovered from overtraining from fighting.

Reducing my aerobic load has had the largest impact on my SHBG. It has taken my free test from 0.8% to 1.4% of my total testosterone.

 

[Type-IIx]

No drugs now however maybe 17 years ago I was prescribed opiates for several years straight due to some issues with my sinuses and many many surgeries.


Supplements:

DHEA: 100mg
Vit D: 5000iu
Methylation supplement
Anastrazole: 1x weekly .25mg
Enclomiphene: 12.5mg 3x weekly.


I did get so recent blood work back. Reducing my mileage for just a week again drove my free test back up to 150 pgml.

I’m going to quit running for a few weeks and see how high I go on my free test. I’m starting to think I never recovered from overtraining from fighting.

Reducing my aerobic load has had the largest impact on my SHBG. It has taken my free test from 0.8% to 1.4% of my total testosterone.

See High SHBG , low free T help

I'm sorry that you might be experiencing frank OTS. You might, if resources permit, seek out a specialist that studies this condition. It's mostly mysterious, but you sound like you might fit the mold.

My only other advice is to please, be a friend to yourself, and take it easy.

 

[Alyk89]

@Type-IIx thanks for that.

I really have started to think I've had OTS and never recovered. I basically went into marathon training straight after fighting for years. I just never recovered despite having high BP, high resting heart rate and other symptoms. I rested a bit to recover in the short term but I dont think I ever fully recovered. It might take me months or even a year or more.

I didnt want to believe it but given I have low levels of T3 & T4 (trending up after reduced running), my IGF-1 was low, my DHEA was / is shot....it all checks out.

 

[Jortimer]

I have the same issue but I don't think it's from over training. I used to do triathlon and train a lot but I've been not as crazy for a few years now. Not OTS unless I am permanently damaged. I was thinking about Proviron or Enclo too and came across your post. I was thinking I could do it at small enough doses to lower SHBG but keep my T relatively high and increase free T. I'd cycle to keep my natural testosterone in a high range. Anyway, any updates? how are you going with this?

 

[UncleBuns]

Generally speaking SHBG and naturally produced testosterone increase and decrease in parallel. The enclo will raise both.

I've read some things about chronic over training raising SHBG, but I'm not sure if there's great evidence to support that. The main thing that jumped out at me is your life overall. Sounds like you are spread to thin and overall the amount of things you're doing sounds like you're in an chronically overtrained/overstressed state. Dial back on the training and job if possible and give your body some more R&R. How much are you sleeping and is the sleep good quality?

I too have always had top of reference range SHBG and when I've tested it, top of reference range DHT. Most of my physical activity is athletics as well, but your overall training load is well above mine. I also have a stressful job that requires odd hours and varied shift work. When I was younger I could burn the candle at both ends and get away with it but as I got older I started breaking down. I had to dial things back and one of the main things I do is prioritize my sleep. Eventually I realized that good sleep is the make or break for me in order to maintain the lifestyle I want.

Your calories seem kind of low for your size and activity level. Is 2200 cal your normal for maintenance? Or are you cutting?

 

[Vesuvius]

@Alyk89

Based on your post, I think you aren’t eating enough carbs. And carbs greatly affect SHBG. 70 grams per day is not enough IMO. Ideally, 200 grams is the best but try to hit at least 150.

 

[Alyk89]

Thanks for the responses guys heres an update @Vesuvius @UncleBuns @Jortimer

As far as sleep I try to get a solid 8 hours every day. Sleep hygiene is good, I take magnesium biglycinate at night. Sometimes I do have sleep problems and sometimes I sleep like a rock. Since starting lifting again it def. has hurt my sleep quality according to my watch. I assume it comes with the territory since I am more sore at night now so my body registers that as stress.

I went ahead and got screened for a full vitamin panel, kinda on the lower end of A, and K so I started supplementing. No deficiency though.

The calories were low because I used to fight and then literally forgot I should probably not under eat as I don't have to maintain a weight anymore. Current calorie and macro breakdown.

2,520 calories
250g carbs
80g fat
200g protein

I am going to work my way up to 2,750 a day but it's taking me some time, I have been dealing with bloating a lot trying to expand my stomach again. I ate 1,850 calories for years so its going to take some time to un-fuck.

Workout schedule
Lift 2 days a week - Oly lifting
Jog 3 days a week - 35min zone 2

I was taking enclo however after 4 months the 3 times a week dose has dropped me down to a total test of 900 ng/dl from 1200.

I did try Proviron for 3.5 weeks however I discontinued because of sides. I got really bad brain fog and sleep disruption. I did start to shed more hair, but that really wasn't the driving factor. I can't be showing up to work all hazy. It did drop my SHBG from 90 -> 70 pg/ml however before this my total test started to drop on enclo from 1190 -> 900 ng/dl. So it netted out to have the same free test of 120 pg/ml. It did improve my free test % from 1.1 % - 1.3%. The proviron did help my libido for some time, but I'm sure my DHT just went through the roof so eventually the increase libido subsided. I am pretty sure the proviron was real I bought Pharmaqo from CatCafe that did check out on their website. A few folks sent trials from the same batches I had that did check out.

I have stopped taking enclo, my baseline is 800 ng/dl. Not worth taking anastrozole and dealing with high e2 from enclo.

Honestly next steps for me are TRT, I have my consult with Defy in 2 weeks to switch. I am having a hard time mentally dealing with this, I am constantly trying to balance e2 on enclo, and at best I feel like a 6/10 on a good day.

For all the headache I vacillate between 10-12 ng/dl of free testosterone. My base free test is 8-10 ngl/dl. No real symptom relief. I am going to switch to TRT and wait a few months, I want to see if that will knock my SHBG back down. I would consider trying to micro dose Anavar if I could get it from a compounding pharmacy. I do think since it is a DHT derivative I might have the same sides. I am sick of dicking around with all this and doing all the lab work and research with no real results.

 

[Alyk89]

Also important to note I did check my Thyroid again, and Free T3 & T4 along with TSH were good. T4 was in the upper quartile.

Seems like this is either genetic or I have NAFLD, which I doubt. I have no markers in blood that indicate liver issues, however I did not have a liver ultrasound. I have been eating 85% of diet is processed food free so I am doing what you should do for months to reverse NAFLD anyway.

That or the concussions, overtraining and under eating have permanently fucked myself without the intervention of anabolics.