I would like to know what those of you who support trump will do when he loses the election?

Yes but to be fair my experience of living in ontario is your system is far left and just left of center. So a liberal vs conservative takes on a different meaning than in the USA
The USA's definitions of left and right are so skewed to the right compared to the rest of the world that it's almost impossible to make a comparison. Biden would be considered a right-wing candidate in most countries based on his voting record. In the US he's a "radical leftist."

How the guy who voted for the largest deregulation of the banking industry in the history of the United States is considered a "socialist" just blows my mind. It's truly bizarre from an outside perspective. Biden would be too conservative for our Conservative party, in Canada.
 
The USA's definitions of left and right are so skewed to the right compared to the rest of the world that it's almost impossible to make a comparison. Biden would be considered a right-wing candidate in most countries based on his voting record. In the US he's a "radical leftist."

How the guy who voted for the largest deregulation of the banking industry in the history of the United States is considered a "socialist" just blows my mind. It's truly bizarre from an outside perspective. Biden would be too conservative for our Conservative party, in Canada.
The claim that Biden is a socialist or "radical leftist" has always been laughable to many Americans too. It's amazing that political messaging has convinced so many people that he is a radical liberal. You are right about his conservative record.
 
The claim that Biden is a socialist or "radical leftist" has always been laughable to many Americans too. It's amazing that political messaging has convinced so many people that he is a radical liberal. You are right about his conservative record.
Not to mention Joe Biden is a REAL Christian.
 
The USA's definitions of left and right are so skewed to the right compared to the rest of the world that it's almost impossible to make a comparison.
It is "skewed" to the rest of the world because to the rest of the world there has never been another USA. Not with the freedoms, not with the responsibility and especially not with our history. The GOP stands for grand ol party because their views have not changed since the birth of the constitution. We are by definition different. You dont pull off the greatest military upset in world history against the most powerful military in the world and settle in to the crowd like all the rest. Adopt the most near perfect piece of paper that celebrates unabashed freedom and the standard for which any and all that desire to be free would die for just to have a taste.
 
Not to mention Joe Biden is a REAL Christian.

Proof???

He did a fantastic job raising his children. Beau passed away and Hunter swoops in and dates his widow. That’s some messed up stuff. Never mind Hunter’s love for “excess”. Is that the “Christian values” now?
 
Not to mention Joe Biden is a REAL Christian.
Joe biden is Pro Abortion. Er womens rights. Yes because that is a softer less controverial way of saying an infants life isnt a life at all till the mother says it is. Dont seem like your familiar with scripture
The claim that Biden is a socialist or "radical leftist" has always been laughable to many Americans too. It's amazing that political messaging has convinced so many people that he is a radical liberal. You are right about his conservative record.

Plans to reinstate and add to the largest govt run social program of our time. Not a socialist tho. Clearly i see the logic.

Barks like a dog, looks like a dog, walks like a dog. Clearly a cat
 
The claim that Biden is a socialist or "radical leftist" has always been laughable to many Americans too. It's amazing that political messaging has convinced so many people that he is a radical liberal. You are right about his conservative record.

He voted for the iraq war and drafted/passed the drug laws that indirectly target minority's. The healthcare he and his buddy created made it illegal to not have health care and said "there now its universal, or else". You are correct in saying he is not far left. He is a thinly veiled neocon. Just like every president after Kennedy.
 
Joe biden is Pro Abortion. Er womens rights. Yes because that is a softer less controverial way of saying an infants life isnt a life at all till the mother says it is. Dont seem like your familiar with scripture


Plans to reinstate and add to the largest govt run social program of our time. Not a socialist tho. Clearly i see the logic.

Barks like a dog, looks like a dog, walks like a dog. Clearly a cat
The truth of the matter is we are not concerned with socialist policies. Socialist policies are on the surface preferable and in the long run inevitable. Supposing that growth and abundance continue. What we are concerned about is authoritarianism and the consolidation of power. The problem is that we don't believe him or the others when they proclaim socialist ideals. We know they are fucking lying to gain power. They arn't librals, all the true librals have shifted to the right. They are authoritarians.
 
The truth of the matter is we are not concerned with socialist policies. Socialist policies are on the surface preferable and in the long run inevitable. Supposing that growth and abundance continue. What we are concerned about is authoritarianism and the consolidation of power. The problem is that we don't believe him or the others when they proclaim socialist ideals. We know they are fucking lying to gain power. They arn't librals, all the true librals have shifted to the right. They are authoritarians.
Huge difference between liberals and libertarians. Modern liberals could not ever be in the company of conservatives. They are polar opposites by design. Libertarians are very similar to conservatives however. The root word liberty in both is mostly inconsequential as it relates to liberals

We used to even have options as far as conservatives go as they used to exist in both major parties. That day is gone. Extinct as the dinosaurs
 
Huge difference between liberals and libertarians. Modern liberals could not ever be in the company of conservatives. They are polar opposites by design. Libertarians are very similar to conservatives however. The root word liberty in both is mostly inconsequential as it relates to liberals

We used to even have options as far as conservatives go as they used to exist in both major parties. That day is gone. Extinct as the dinosaurs
Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on liberty, consent of the governed and equality before the law.[1][2][3] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but they generally support free markets, free trade, limited government, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), capitalism, democracy, secularism, gender equality, racial equality, internationalism, freedom of speech, freedom of the press and freedom of religion

Copy and pasted. Libertarians are a subset of liberals. What liberals are now is something entirely different. There should he a different word for it but they hijacked it by having some initial overlapping values.

That's why I said true liberals are now on the right.

On the whole we are in agreement though. Liberals of today are something totally different.
 
I don't have a team. I've voted for both liberal and conservative candidates in my lifetime. I stay away from team politics as much as possible.

If it comes out that there was rampant cheating, I'll eat crow -- but forgive me for not saving my appetite for the occassion.

I'm not one who is inclined to believe claims at face value. If the GOP has proof and presents it in a court of law, my opinion will change. The onus is on the claimant to provide evidence. They have provided exactly zero evidence in court at this point, hence my current stance on the issue.
I'm not calling you out or anything, but I don't believe any rational person can look at the existing data and not believe something is terribly wrong with the election. What the lawyers are saying, and the evidence they have makes no difference. And what the courts rule may or may not align with reality. If politics didn't govern them as much as everything else, there wouldn't be mass slander against every judge appointed who's on the wrong side of the political spectrum.
 
The claim that Biden is a socialist or "radical leftist" has always been laughable to many Americans too. It's amazing that political messaging has convinced so many people that he is a radical liberal. You are right about his conservative record.
Biden is an authoritarian and a political hack. Not so different from Trump, actually, except he will do what his owners tell him.
 
Huge difference between liberals and libertarians. Modern liberals could not ever be in the company of conservatives. They are polar opposites by design. Libertarians are very similar to conservatives however. The root word liberty in both is mostly inconsequential as it relates to liberals

We used to even have options as far as conservatives go as they used to exist in both major parties. That day is gone. Extinct as the dinosaurs

I took a shower and got to thinking. The difference between the modern liberal and classical liberal is that the modern liberal wants to legislate morality to the fullest extent. In doing so they have to abandon freedom of speech, freedom of religion and limited government. This is why many sensible people on the left are confused because they share common ground with modern liberals in that they want gender equality and racial equality and choose not to see what's being lost in pushing the legislation of equality too far.

Politicians in turn see this as an opportunity to capitalize on the ability to legislate further into our lives, thus gaining more power and control. They get to do so under the guise of progress, since so many people are clamoring for it and mistakenly believe these issues to be the root cause of their suffering. The actual root cause is most likely much more complex and not nearly as easy to fix.

Generally it comes down to this I think. People on the left think that humans are intrinsically good and that society/culture/ institutions are what corrupt them. essentially Rousseau's social contract "man is born free, and he is everywhere in chains." So the obvious course of action is to try to change unsavory individuals through the culture/society/government that created them. To change the individual by changing the way that the system allows them to express themselves.

I think what we are seeing on the left generally is a retarded revitalization of the romantic movement. Which was an offshoot of rousseau's philosophy best illustrated in Frankenstein. Frankenstein being allegory for the soul after science and the enlightenment killed religion. General sentiment being that the human spirit must triumph over reason. That reason is a slave maker and must be destroyed and usurped in order to reunite and restore us with god and our noble nature. The fall of man. etc. In addition to this since religion has been killed by science and reason a replacement is required in order for people to have psychic harmony with the uncertainty of their lives. By killing god and the soul you also eliminate purpose. In steps marxism, BLM, Antifa, etc as a replacement religion and an end worth burning reason (or their makers) to the ground.

On the flip side you have the enlightenment school of thought which supposes that the hearts and mind of the individual are what shape the society/culture/government. That to change the government you must first change the heart of the man who creates it. Essentially individualism. Individual god given rights that are inalienable from which you get innocent until proven guilty. Which is a huge advance from trials by fire and witch hunts, etc. The sovereignty of the individual to seek truth and reason wherever he may find it so long as it does not infringe upon the rights of others to do the same.
 
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Joe biden is Pro Abortion. Er womens rights. Yes because that is a softer less controverial way of saying an infants life isnt a life at all till the mother says it is. Dont seem like your familiar with scripture


Plans to reinstate and add to the largest govt run social program of our time. Not a socialist tho. Clearly i see the logic.

Barks like a dog, looks like a dog, walks like a dog. Clearly a cat
200,000 to 800,000 illegal abortions were carried out every year before 1973 made abortion legal. If a women wants an abortion she'll get it one way or the other. Just like aas is illegal and we still manage to get it.

Actually there are several verses in the bible where Yahweh condones abortion, infanticide. Abraham thought God told him to kill his own son. Psalms has a verse where the Jews want revenge by bashing their enemies babies against the rocks. A verse where adultery will lead to a priest having a women drink a potion to induce an abortion.

God never gave a single shit about women or children in the bible. When the mob wanted to rape the angles in sodom, the host of the house offered his daughters to be used for sexual debauchery so as to save the male angles.

Judaism is soaked in blood and murder with no regard for children. If a child disobeys his parents he or she is to be taken to the edge of town and bashed in the head with rocks until dead.....stoned with stones.

So if one wanted to really be a good person, it would seem like a prereq never to allow these middle eastern religions to creep into your thoughts.
 
The problem with those that love Trump is that they are focusing on economic freedom at the expense of all the other freedoms that make life worth living.

What good does it do you if you work 60hrs a week, only to live in a country where you have an authoritarian at the top bossing everyone around.

All these Trump fans seem to think employment depends on his economic policies. When did people get so weak as to think they can't navigate their own course without help from a POTUS.

Damn guys just live your own lives, you don't need Trump or Biden, just do it yourself. And if you don't like their tax policies do what the rich do, make money without paying taxes.
 
The USA's definitions of left and right are so skewed to the right compared to the rest of the world that it's almost impossible to make a comparison. Biden would be considered a right-wing candidate in most countries based on his voting record. In the US he's a "radical leftist."

How the guy who voted for the largest deregulation of the banking industry in the history of the United States is considered a "socialist" just blows my mind. It's truly bizarre from an outside perspective. Biden would be too conservative for our Conservative party, in Canada.
For some reason it's thought that if you're on the right you're responsible and hard working. From what I've seen they blow through just as much money as the left. The only difference is that the right focuses on corporate welfare and hedge fund managers and the left might throw out a fraction of this on social programs.

The far right are so crazy in this country that anyone that proposes anything other than handing over trillions to the already filthy rich are considered communists.
 
For some reason it's thought that if you're on the right you're responsible and hard working. From what I've seen they blow through just as much money as the left. The only difference is that the right focuses on corporate welfare and hedge fund managers and the left might throw out a fraction of this on social programs.

The far right are so crazy in this country that anyone that proposes anything other than handing over trillions to the already filthy rich are considered communists.

Yes, the right gives breaks to the corporations directly through subsidies and deregulation. Where in this case usually the regulation is there to keep markets fair and balanced or restrictions on pollution.

The left gives money to corporations by creating regulations that give large corporations differential advantage in the market. Making it impossible for small businesses and small companies to compete. Like with trade agreements, NAFTA, SE Asian pharmaceutical trade agreements,etc. Or by creating building programs like funding and building the telecommunications infrastructure to then hand monopolies over its use to private corporations such as Comcast, atnt, etc.

Or more generally funding all the R&D for things on the tax payer dime which is then handed to private companies that then charge a premium to the population to use the thing they bought with their tax dollars. Like microprocessors, handed to ibm, HP, etc. All funded through the defense budget. The internet, Defense budget. The vaccines we funded the research for. Well I hear the first so many million will be free to high risk people. I doubt the whole us population will receive it free and if they do it will just be the government paying for it again. so indirectly us. We funded the r&d for these companies and they are going to make many many billions of dollars. It goes on and on. This is typically a right wing route as the right wing is usually big on the defense budget.

The answer is they both do the same thing in different ways.
 
It seems the country is wallowing in resentment on one side and the other doesn't really give a shit.

With a country that constantly advertises, lives, breaths and sleeps consumerism. Does America even have any real meaning. To be an American is basically just buying products and services, going in debt and working.

Freedom, we are the most free in the world. I call bullshit. We have more people locked up than anywhere in the world, more people with criminal records that can't move on with their lives.

Are people sick of older generations telling younger that this is the way it's supposed to be and you just need to keep a shit system going because I need you to be my slave to take care of me in my old age.

When do we get the freedom to experiment and create a world that people are happy to live in instead of one where we pretend to be happy in public, but in private cuss every day we wake.

When is this nation going to embrace total honesty, hide nothing, just walk up to their boss "I really hate you motherfucker and punch him in the mouth".
 
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