IGF-1/HGH reduces need for AIs?

[JackHoffman]

Hey, this is just a theory. I’m trying to see if anyone has any information on this. I heard that people who have used HGH, possibly at high doses for a long time may not have as much of a need for AI’s. This may have something to do with IGF-1 production. I am wondering if anyone also has fasted or done IF and found this to be the case. I’m new to all this and I have a high estradiol level of 131 and have been on 500mg of test for about two months. I haven’t needed any AI’s nor have I had any symptoms. I usually skip breakfast and am quite accustomed to intermittent fasting. It’s just something I do now as I find it helps with my mood/energy/depression. Seems to reduce compulsive behavior. It also can be great for weight loss but that isn’t why I’m doing it right now. Increases insulin sensitivity. Maybe the same effect could be achieved with a low carb diet as well. I’m now going up to 750mg/week to see if I get symptoms and I will probably go up to a gram after that if i still don’t need an AI. I know some people never need an AI but it just seems surprising. I thought about this after hearing what Vigorous Steve said. He said he didn’t need AI’s due to long term HGH use or something like that. I’ll have to listen to it again and find out more but does anyone else have any clues or know of this being the case?

 

[Musmadar]

My theory is that Hgh+fasting makes wonders....that is the baseline from where you can divagate endlessly.

 

[Jin23]

I’m now going up to 750mg/week to see if I get symptoms and I will probably go up to a gram after that if i still don’t need an AI.

This is such a stupid idea mate. There are a lot of physiological changes you can't observe via "feelz" and gyno. Don't forget, sex hormones work via gene transcription and their effects are long lasting or can be permanent, especially when we are talking about receptor sensitization/expression. If your e2 is at 130 now, it will surely be above 150, probably more at 170, when you'll go to 750mg's. There is just no good rationale for what you're proposing. Take an Ai, lower your e2 to normal levels and be done with it.

And if all you're worried about is gyno keep in mind: gyno starts forming before you can feel anything. Once you can feel it, the damage has already been done. Even if you immediately stop at that point, you'll have to worry about it on every cycle hence forth, and every cycle will add a little more growth to it, slowly acumulating over time ...

 

[juicebro]

This is such a stupid idea mate. There are a lot of physiological changes you can't observe via "feelz" and gyno. Don't forget, sex hormones work via gene transcription and their effects are long lasting or can be permanent, especially when we are talking about receptor sensitization/expression. If your e2 is at 130 now, it will surely be above 150, probably more at 170, when you'll go to 750mg's. There is just no good rationale for what you're proposing. Take an Ai, lower your e2 to normal levels and be done with it.

And if all you're worried about is gyno keep in mind: gyno starts forming before you can feel anything. Once you can feel it, the damage has already been done. Even if you immediately stop at that point, you'll have to worry about it on every cycle hence forth, and every cycle will add a little more growth to it, slowly acumulating over time ...

On the topic of gyno, I'd add that HGH is like pouring gasoline on fire

 

[Type-IIx]

Hey, this is just a theory. I’m trying to see if anyone has any information on this. I heard that people who have used HGH, possibly at high doses for a long time may not have as much of a need for AI’s. This may have something to do with IGF-1 production. I am wondering if anyone also has fasted or done IF and found this to be the case. I’m new to all this and I have a high estradiol level of 131 and have been on 500mg of test for about two months. I haven’t needed any AI’s nor have I had any symptoms. I usually skip breakfast and am quite accustomed to intermittent fasting. It’s just something I do now as I find it helps with my mood/energy/depression. Seems to reduce compulsive behavior. It also can be great for weight loss but that isn’t why I’m doing it right now. Increases insulin sensitivity. Maybe the same effect could be achieved with a low carb diet as well. I’m now going up to 750mg/week to see if I get symptoms and I will probably go up to a gram after that if i still don’t need an AI. I know some people never need an AI but it just seems surprising. I thought about this after hearing what Vigorous Steve said. He said he didn’t need AI’s due to long term HGH use or something like that. I’ll have to listen to it again and find out more but does anyone else have any clues or know of this being the case?

It is the opposite if anything. The GH-IGF-I axis plays a role in the pathogenesis of gynecomastia.

Estrogens are synergistic in this respect with rhGH by increasing breast cell expression of IGF-I receptor (IGF-IR).

 

[JackHoffman]

This is such a stupid idea mate. There are a lot of physiological changes you can't observe via "feelz" and gyno. Don't forget, sex hormones work via gene transcription and their effects are long lasting or can be permanent, especially when we are talking about receptor sensitization/expression. If your e2 is at 130 now, it will surely be above 150, probably more at 170, when you'll go to 750mg's. There is just no good rationale for what you're proposing. Take an Ai, lower your e2 to normal levels and be done with it.

And if all you're worried about is gyno keep in mind: gyno starts forming before you can feel anything. Once you can feel it, the damage has already been done. Even if you immediately stop at that point, you'll have to worry about it on every cycle hence forth, and every cycle will add a little more growth to it, slowly acumulating over time ...

Ya, no. It’s something you can feel for sure. Maybe its different for some people but it doesn’t happen over night. You feel something like burning, itchy nipples and you have maybe 24-48 hours to take an AI and that usually stops it. You can even reverse some mild gyno with Nolvadex.

Hey maybe your right but I don’t have gyno and nothing is forming. I could lower my estrogen. I may try that in the future to see how I feel but the way I look at it is my test isn’t in the normal range so why would I expect my estrogen to be normal? I hear people lowering the estrogen and they can’t get out of bed and have no sex drive. Honestly, I feel better than ever right now. I am more of a if the pipes aren’t broken, don’t fix it kind of guy. And I think in general people obsess over numbers too much and don’t know how to listen to their own body and what it is telling them.

 

[Jin23]

Ya, no. It’s something you can feel for sure. Maybe its different for some people but it doesn’t happen over night. You feel something like burning, itchy nipples and you have maybe 24-48 hours to take an AI and that usually stops it. You can even reverse some mild gyno with Nolvadex.

Hey maybe your right but I don’t have gyno and nothing is forming. I could lower my estrogen. I may try that in the future to see how I feel but the way I look at it is my test isn’t in the normal range so why would I expect my estrogen to be normal? I hear people lowering the estrogen and they can’t get out of bed and have no sex drive. Honestly, I feel better than ever right now. I am more of a if the pipes aren’t broken, don’t fix it kind of guy. And I think in general people obsess over numbers too much and don’t know how to listen to their own body and what it is telling them.

I definitely didn't say you can't feel nipple issues, that is the one thing you absolutely Can feel. I was referring to a myriad of other issues you can not feel, with which you can set yourself up for problems down the road. Are you at least monitoring your BP? And besides, subjective observation has too many flaws to be worth even talking about.

In regards to gyno, once you start experiencing itching; you've already got issues and you don't want to push it to that stage, makes little sense. If itching nipps is your main indicator for too high estrogenicity, then you are setting your self up for failure, at least in regards to gyno. Your tissue will most probably grow, little by little, cycle after cycle, until it becomes pretty obvious you've got gyno. I stand corrected if you've done more then a few cycles with this workflow and it has kept gyno away, however if this isn't the case and this is your first cycle, then head my words.

And to the topic of GH, listen to @Type-IIx and @juicebro. It will only worsen gyno.

Seriously, you've opened a topic and you've got experienced fellow members giving you pretty solid advice, which you are completely ignoring, half reading what everybody wrote and stubbornly continuing with some half assed bro logic.

 

[Country Club Hero]

I’ve gotten itchy nips from just HGH and low, low dose TRT. A few times actually. Usually only if diet is ridiculous though.