Is this PCT good enough

Guns_Muscle_G35

New Member
Whats going on guys just making sure my PCT is sufficient enough for my cycle.
Cycle is 12 weeks of Test-E with Aromasin 12.5 EOD

For PCT im going to do:
Nolva:40/20/20/20
Clomid:100/50/50/50
 
No need to up the clomid dose, keep it steady throughout your PCT. I could be wrong though, but when I use clomid, and how I was taught to use clomid, I've never tapered.

I also have never understood why people run an AI for their entire cycle, is this written in some forum that people constantly go to? These drugs often have worse side effects than the steroid after long term use, and they are super strong compounds. Not to mention zeroing out your estrogen is a bad idea.Which AI's are very good at doing when used for more than 2 weeks straight at low doses.
 
This was on less of a dose than usually used by men, the dose period was for a year in the clinical studies. It was also only conducted on women, since the drug was designed for women with cancer. In my mind, the potential reaction of death is higher than with "responsible" steroid use, as it occurred in 1.3%-1.4% of patients in the clinical trials.

I've also included side effects from TRT studies below. Which list a far lot less in terms of side effects, and death wasn't one of them.

http://www.rxlist.com/aromasin-side-effects-drug-center.htm

Side effects:

SIDE EFFECTS: Hot flashes, hair loss, joint/bone/muscle pain, tiredness, unusual sweating, nausea, diarrhea, dizziness, and trouble sleeping may occur. If any of these effects persist or worsen, notify your doctor or pharmacist promptly.
Remember that your doctor has prescribed this medication because he or she has judged that the benefit to you is greater than the risk of side effects. Many people using this medication do not have serious side effects.

Tell your doctor right away if you have any serious side effects, including: bone fractures, mental/mood changes (such as depression, anxiety), vaginal bleeding, persistent nausea/vomiting, unusual tiredness, dark urine, yellowing eyes/skin.

This medication (and cancer) may rarely cause serious problems from blood clots (such as heart attack or stroke). Get medical help right away if you experience: sudden shortness of breath, chest/jaw/left arm pain, confusion, coughing up blood, sudden dizziness/fainting, pain/swelling/warmth in the groin/calf, tingling/weakness/numbness in the arms/legs, slurred speech, swelling of arms/legs, weakness on one side of the body, vision changes, sudden/severe headache.

A very serious allergic reaction to this drug is rare. However, get medical help right away if you notice any of the following symptoms of a serious allergic reaction: rash, itching/swelling (especially of the face/tongue/throat/neck), severe dizziness, trouble breathing.

This is not a complete list of possible side effects. If you notice other effects not listed above, contact your doctor or pharmacist.


More info:

Certain adverse events, which were expected based on the known pharmacological properties and side effect profiles of test drugs, were actively sought through a positive checklist. Signs and symptoms were graded for severity using CTC in both studies. Within the IES study, the presence of some illnesses/conditions was monitored through a positive checklist without assessment of severity. These included myocardial infarction, other cardiovascular disorders, gynecological disorders, osteoporosis, osteoporotic fractures, other primary cancer, and hospitalizations.

AROMASIN was generally well tolerated and adverse events were usually mild to moderate. Within the IES study, discontinuations due to adverse events occurred in 6.3% and 5.1% of patients receiving AROMASIN and tamoxifen, respectively, and in 12.3% and 4.1% of patients receiving exemestane or placebo respectively within study 027.

Deaths due to any cause were reported for 1.3% of the exemestane treated patients and 1.4% of the tamoxifen treated patients within the IES study. There were 6 deaths due to stroke on the exemestane arm compared to 2 on tamoxifen. There were 5 deaths due to cardiac failure on the exemestane arm compared to 2 on tamoxifen.


Side effects of testosterone (only TRT studies are available).


http://tctmed.com/side-effects-of-testosterone-replacement-therapy-trt/

Side Effects of TRT: DHT and Estradiol
Normal metabolism of testosterone results in its conversion into two primary metabolites, dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and estradiol (E2, a form of estrogen). Elevated levels of DHT can cause benign growth of the prostate, increased oiliness of the skin and acne, as well as male pattern balding. Abnormal increases in estradiol can lead to mood swings, breast tissue changes, and fluid retention that may cause swelling or increases in blood pressure. Furthermore, abnormal estradiol levels have been linked to lower testosterone levels, erectile dysfunction, and a decrease in free testosterone.

According to the 2010 update to “Testosterone Therapy in Adult Men with Androgen Deficiency Syndromes: An Endocrine Society Clinical Practice Guideline”, the conversion rate and subsequent ratio of testosterone to estradiol and DHT does not change when treating Low T via injection of testosterone cypionate. These ratios may be negatively affected with other Low T treatments (gels, patches, pellets, etc.).

Side Effects of TRT: Prostate Changes
While prostate changes can occur with testosterone replacement, a http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/95/6/2560.full?sid=79e60c7e-d3b0-4e38-9e53-25106e8b9965 (study) published in The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism in June of 2010, which looked closely at the adverse reactions reported in 51 other studies, found there to be no increased risk of the development of prostate cancer, prostate related urinary symptoms, or elevated PSA (prostate specific antigen).
 
Here are the potential risks from straight clinical testosterone. The boner one is hilarious.

http://www.rxlist.com/striant-drug.htm

What are the possible side effects of testosterone buccal system (Striant)?
If you experience any of the following serious side effects, stop using testosterone buccal system and seek emergency medical attention or contact your doctor immediately:

  • an allergic reaction (difficulty breathing; closing of the throat; swelling of the lips, tongue, or face; or hives);
  • nausea or vomiting;
  • changes in skin color;
  • swelling of the ankles or legs;
  • breathing disturbances, including those associated with sleep;
  • too frequent or prolonged erections;
  • liver damage (yellowing of the skin or eyes, nausea,...
 
So essentially, AI can cause heart attack and stroke, baldness, joint damage, and nausea. While test can raise blood pressure (which can cause liver damage if not monitored), decrease the size of your balls, do permanent damage to your libido, and give frequent erections.
 
brother thats all if you crash the estro sides hard. with a responsible dose of ai im sure moderating the estrogen to normal levels while on gear will not provoke the side effects. sounds like low estrogen sides.
 
With an AI, you will crash your estro with every day dosage for 8-12 weeks. I'm not familiar with aromasin conversion ratios since I don't use it, but a-dex will half your estro after EoD .5 mg doses for 1 week, letro EoD for 1 week at regular doses will remove 98% of your estro.

I can't stress this enough, you need estro to build muscle, and maintain a positive mood. AI should be run if you start to exp gyno, and I personally only run it for a week, then stop. During most of my extended cycles (18 weeks), I usually only need to use the AI (if at all) 1-2 weeks. A user should be able to listen to their body, and run an AI as needed, not ED just for fear of Gyno.
 
AI's seem to vary greatly between pharma and and research grade.

If you dose small enough, you can use it every day.
Aromasin has a 9 hour half life, so lots of guys use it every day. Pharma ARo is typically 6mg a day or less for most cycles. I've seen guys using liquid aro at 25mg a day, and post normal E2 level on bloodwork.
Aro left my joints dry and achey, and 5mg a day was a good dose.
I'm trying ADex this time, and .25mg EOD feels right. My joints like adex more that aro.
 
4leaf im not sure were on the same point here. brotha people run AIs during cycle because exogenous testosterones causes an increase in estrogen. AIs are merely used to keep the estrogen moreso E2 levels consistent with normal estrogen levels so that there can be a greater amount of testosterone from the supplementation without the increase in estrogen. you just need to find the sweet spot and i promise you your estrogen wont cerash. for me it is 12.5mg aromasin e3d
 
Sorry, we are just from different schools of thought, and we'll just have to leave it at that. I don't like to use AI ED (I use less than 4 pills on an 18 week cycle), and I have no probs. You like to use it ED and have no probs.
 
This just in; testosterone is bad for you and AI's can kill you. LMFAO!!

Thanks for the heads up there 4LeafClover, but i think youre one leaf short. :rolleyes:
 
Whats going on guys just making sure my PCT is sufficient enough for my cycle.
Cycle is 12 weeks of Test-E with Aromasin 12.5 EOD

For PCT im going to do:
Nolva:40/20/20/20
Clomid:100/50/50/50

As Burr indicated, your recovery plan is fine - assuming youre on a relatively standard cycle and youve waited long enough for the esters to clear before beginning your recovery.
 
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