Looking for dosing guidance.

[JC Grifter]

If you really want to use Tren and no one can stop you, use Tren A instead of E.
If you become obnoxious or can't tolerate it, Acetate will quickly get it out of your system because of its shorter half-life.
Also lose weight before!
A BMI of 30 is obesity. You'll aromatize like hell.

BMI is a joke. I’m 5’7 190lbs with abs and obliques. My BMI says I’m obese lol

 

[lukiss96]

I guess it depends on the dose. A guy with low T staying within physiological levels, even if he doesn't work out, though not optimal, is still improving his physical and mental health.

Then that guy should look in to TRT, not a cycle which is short term solution at best

 

[upbloob]

BMI is a joke. I’m 5’7 190lbs with abs and obliques. My BMI says I’m obese lol

Yes, BMI is a joke if you are muscular. But the thread creator is fat.

 

[lukiss96]

Yes, BMI is a joke if you are muscular. But the thread creator is fat.

Agree, it depends on the context though. For average person it might mean more, but for fitness enthusiasts or let alone steroid users it's irrelevant.

Most up to date medical professionals say that body composition is much more important factor. Body fat percentage is way more accurate reflection of persons health than just weight.

Although we steroid users we cross the line as weight is still weight and our hearts need to work harder than if we were healthy natural trainees.

 

[Burntoutn3rd]

Notice how I put "0" in the "0-200mg" tren. meaning its optional.
talking about "sub 100 iq" and "new generation" and writing "neurobiologist" really doesn't make you look smart. This is a steroid forum not an optimal brain health forum, and tren has been around and abused for decades, so this new generation thing is nonsense, if you read the post this guy is 43.

43, not a pro, and nowhere close to needing tren.

I didn't see the 0, but in fairness, considering it at all for someone who's not even competing, let alone not even in the shape for serious gear runs yet is wild.

I'm not trying to sound smart, I'm trying to help some people not make a stupid choice that's irrelevant for their goals. If you're not anpro, don't touch tren. Pretty simple.

Cutting 10 years off your life out of body dysmorphia when you have a plethora of other compounds that work GREAT is straight smooth brain homie, lmao.

I'm not over here telling anyone what to and what not to do, but someone has to speak the blunt truth on the subject for OP to see all sides fairly. People can put whatever they want in their bodies, someone should pipe up with blunt honesty though.

 

[Burntoutn3rd]

Also, I put in the fact I'm a neurobiologist because this is my wheelhouse. I'm an addiction neurobiologist. I work with drug abusers for a career, recreational, steroids, whatever, to study the effects on the mind.


I've seen plenty of brain damage from 19-nors. Tren and deca both cause pretty severe cognitive decline, tren much harder than deca. Tren will absolutely fast track you to dementia if you stay alive long enough.

 

[JC Grifter]

Also, I put in the fact I'm a neurobiologist because this is my wheelhouse. I'm an addiction neurobiologist. I work with drug abusers for a career, recreational, steroids, whatever, to study the effects on the mind.


I've seen plenty of brain damage from 19-nors. Tren and deca both cause pretty severe cognitive decline, tren much harder than deca. Tren will absolutely fast track you to dementia if you stay alive long enough.

I just started my last or second to last cycle with Deca. Not that I’ve talked crazy high doses or ran it a lot of times, but as I get older I want to move away from the more toxic compounds. After that only Test and Primo.

 

[Ghoul]

Agree, it depends on the context though. For average person it might mean more, but for fitness enthusiasts or let alone steroid users it's irrelevant.

Most up to date medical professionals say that body composition is much more important factor. Body fat percentage is way more accurate reflection of persons health than just weight.

Although we steroid users we cross the line as weight is still weight and our hearts need to work harder than if we were healthy natural trainees.

Complete nonsense. Unless you're in top tier of low BF muscular guys, a BMI putting someone in the obese range makes the risk of weight related health problems from cancer to kidney issues far higher than those who aren't obese.

This is the same bullshit narrative pushed by the fat acceptance movement, pointing to the rare exceptions of "healthy fats" instead of the overwhelming majority.

It's a rough measurement, not applicable in every single case, but the stats related to health outcomes and BMI are so clear, so overwhelming, only someone in complete denial would say it's "useless".

 

[lukiss96]

Complete nonsense. Unless you're in top tier of low BF muscular guys, a BMI putting someone in the obese range makes the risk of weight related health problems from cancer to kidney issues far higher than those who aren't obese.

This is the same bullshit narrative pushed by the fat acceptance movement, pointing to the rare exceptions of "healthy fats" instead of the overwhelming majority.

It's a rough measurement, not applicable in every single case, but the stats related to health outcomes and BMI are so clear, so overwhelming, only someone in complete denial would say it's "useless".

If you think bmi has much of use for serious lifters or athletes then I have nothing to more to tell you. Maybe you should update your knowledge. Besides putting extremes (obesity and such) as an example is not really proving anything. My bmi score said I was overweight when I was natural at 200lbs sub 15% body fat. Even my family doc did not mention it as an issue. In the military they do body measurements for a reason. My current bmi is over 30 and I'm quite lean, non of the docs say anything bad about it. They said if I was carrying more fat it would mean more.

 

[1Megaman]

TRT dose of test, learn how to eat and train that’s all you need until you drop the weight. Then think about adding more.

 

[phenominal34]

Complete nonsense. Unless you're in top tier of low BF muscular guys, a BMI putting someone in the obese range makes the risk of weight related health problems from cancer to kidney issues far higher than those who aren't obese.

This is the same bullshit narrative pushed by the fat acceptance movement, pointing to the rare exceptions of "healthy fats" instead of the overwhelming majority.

It's a rough measurement, not applicable in every single case, but the stats related to health outcomes and BMI are so clear, so overwhelming, only someone in complete denial would say it's "useless".

Wrong again Wikipedia

 

[Burntoutn3rd]

I just started my last or second to last cycle with Deca. Not that I’ve talked crazy high doses or ran it a lot of times, but as I get older I want to move away from the more toxic compounds. After that only Test and Primo.

Deca isn't too terrible vs tren, but it definitely does hit your brain a notably significant amount. 19-nors do multiple things up there.

Gonna go a little in depth here...

They all impact glutamatergic signaling causing excitotoxicity, this is where part of the aggression comes from.

They cause dynorphinergic modulation to the hippocampus effecting memory and impulsiveness over time.

Then the big one is enhanced c-fos expression in limbic brain regions, including the hippocampus and amygdala. This sends your stress response off the wall in a permanent and compiling fashion with each run of them. Making you far more susceptible to stress long term.
Tren and trest then further down regulate the tubb3 gene and decrease neuron viability, making any new brain development inherently faulty. As well as inducing neural apoptosis (cell death) and systemic mitochondrial dysfunction.


Summed up, deca isn't terrible but it needs to be noted. In the short term it can actually offer neuroprotective effects. Tren and trest are absolutely terrible for your brain though.

 

[JC Grifter]

Deca isn't too terrible vs tren, but it definitely does hit your brain a notably significant amount. 19-nors do multiple things up there.

Gonna go a little in depth here...

They all impact glutamatergic signaling causing excitotoxicity, this is where part of the aggression comes from.

They cause dynorphinergic modulation to the hippocampus effecting memory and impulsiveness over time.

Then the big one is enhanced c-fos expression in limbic brain regions, including the hippocampus and amygdala. This sends your stress response off the wall in a permanent and compiling fashion with each run of them. Making you far more susceptible to stress long term.
Tren and trest then further down regulate the tubb3 gene and decrease neuron viability, making any new brain development inherently faulty. As well as inducing neural apoptosis (cell death) and systemic mitochondrial dysfunction.


Summed up, deca isn't terrible but it needs to be noted. In the short term it can actually offer neuroprotective effects. Tren and trest are absolutely terrible for your brain though.

Thank you for going into the details. Yeah I’m not going to mess with Tren again. Especially since I never plan to compete. I’ve never considered using Trest.

After this cycle my next use of Deca won’t be until next year.

 

[goodstuffbro]

everything that helps you do more cardio, or making it more enjoyable
Tren isn’t going to help at all .
I suggest , might be a commonplace, to cut at first. Then save the rest for a proper blast.
I don’t think you need more else than Test (mid to even high dosages but with an AI), a proper diet and cardio to do a proper cutting.
At a low enough % body fat you can shred even more with Winstrol and other stuff

 

[Laxman3221]

Yes, BMI is a joke if you are muscular. But the thread creator is fat.

True. Iam 6'1" and 250lbs and my bmi is over 30 yet my fat % is around 9% according to the gyms fancy machine.