Low dose d-bol when cutting

[Trades]

Buddy...

I'll take this one. I'm the low man on the totem pole here.

Regarding someone's advice for Ostarine: Don't do that. There are better choices and these kinds of sarms are steroids for children.

Regarding you can take 250mg test year round because "I know 2 guys who just take 1 amp of test year around and everything is fine for them" --

I mean yeah I like the idea of justifying my 250mg trt the same as you, but let's get real, true replacement doses, putting us in the physiological range, is probably between 75-150mgs/week for most dudes. Higher than that puts most on the high end or out of range. The two dudes you know running an amp per week are either shit responders or are running their hormones above the standard reference range. Have you actually seen their bloodwork or are they just like, "no bro I'm good!" honestly? Do you know why there are ranges for test markers? Do you argue testosterone's impact on hematocrit, with regards to blood thickness and risk of stroke or heart attack?

 

[Nodes]

As long as gyno or the back pumps will not be an issue sure. You could also use Ostarine , it also has a "feel good" aspect with less sides , however keep an eye out on gyno as Ostarine will have a higher affinity for androgen receptors than testosterone , so you will have more free test left to aromatize!

you think ostarine is strong enough to kick out a gyno producing amount of test? do you have any idea how many androgen receptors the body has, there is no way you are taking enough ostarine to saturate enouhg receptors for even a sliver of what you seem to think will occur. really bad logic

 

[Nilatac]

I'll take this one. I'm the low man on the totem pole here.

Regarding someone's advice for Ostarine: Don't do that. There are better choices and these kinds of sarms are steroids for children.

Regarding you can take 250mg test year round because "I know 2 guys who just take 1 amp of test year around and everything is fine for them" --

I mean yeah I like the idea of justifying my 250mg trt the same as you, but let's get real, true replacement doses, putting us in the physiological range, is probably between 75-150mgs/week for most dudes. Higher than that puts most on the high end or out of range. The two dudes you know running an amp per week are either shit responders or are running their hormones above the standard reference range. Have you actually seen their bloodwork or are they just like, "no bro I'm good!" honestly? Do you know why there are ranges for test markers? Do you argue testosterone's impact on hematocrit, with regards to blood thickness and risk of stroke or heart attack?

Those guys don't do trt or blast. They are almost 40 and all they take is a amp of test 250 mg. Call that however you want as is not trt but let's be real isn't a proper cycle either.
There is a new thing called "sports trt" that might fit for this habit.
They don't take that 250 mg to be in range just to give a small advantage on the fitness side and feel good about themselves.

I speak to them somehow frequently over the past few years and once in a while when we talk what we have done lately they say: I went to do some blood test. I'm healthy as a horse. Some blood tests are free were I live and they do those regularly.

But there aren't only for those guys. Those 3 guys who train people(Chavez,Kikel and Crossland) saw thousands of blood work during many years said that until 500 mg of test they can't tell from blood work that they are on something or there is a normal person.

Rise of hematocrit level is also a person dependent thing. I who take a shitload of test I don't go above the range. In fact I don't go above the range on anything only if I take a oral the liver value are higher.
But I understand that I might be a exception as not everyone is the same.

Those 2 guys are in rage but they take a small amount.
Same as estrogen problems is a person dependent thing. Even if I try I can't get gyno other person can make gyno on 500 mg.

250 mg of test isn't the pure evil. It might be a blessing for the right person.
If you don't want to be huge I would just take 250 mg of test year around and 2 times a year I would take a oral just for some strength.
When you do your blood work then you will see how good or bad 250 mg of test is.
I believe this is the most healthy approach to be in the fitness game and be healthy rather than cruise then blast or taking primo or whatever steroid you think is "healthy "

 

[VandTuica10Lei]

you think ostarine is strong enough to kick out a gyno producing amount of test? do you have any idea how many androgen receptors the body has, there is no way you are taking enough ostarine to saturate enouhg receptors for even a sliver of what you seem to think will occur. really bad logic

Ok it makes sense , sorry for the bad advice!

 

[1lifter23]

I think Anadrol fits better for your goals.
Do you drink alcohol? (If so, don’t)
Why are your liver values at the high range with a short use even while taking NAC and TUDCA and a dose of only 37.5 mg?
I would think there is another issue or factor exacerbating things. But I’m not a doctor lol.
Maybe just a personal bad reaction to drol?

Also, if your goal is gym performance I would think taking a bolus dose 1-2 hours pre workout would be of more benefit than the 25/12.5 split you tried before imho.

Thanks for the reply. I don't drink, I really live like a monk other than lifting and gear. I suppose my liver values could be a bad reaction to Anadrol, but it was also towards the end of a cut, pushing training hard and overall systemic stress was high, so maybe the values were elevated.

I tried taking the full dosage 2hrs pre-workout for 1 week, and I noticed no difference in pumps/strength/energy when splitting the dosage, so I figured higher blood levels would be better (all else being equal).

 

[1lifter23]

But there aren't only for those guys. Those 3 guys who train people(Chavez,Kikel and Crossland) saw thousands of blood work during many years said that until 500 mg of test they can't tell from blood work that they are on something or there is a normal person.

You keep citing Broderick, so lets use one of his analogies.

The body is like a car, you can't red line it forever (you can't blast forever), without blowing a gasket (kidney issues, liver issues, BP, etc.). Now 250mg of test/week is no where near red lining, but lets say it's city cruising at 40mph. Now we could say a TRUE TRT dose, landing in normal physiological range could be idle, or even having the car turned off. Which one would last longer?

I agree with you that most people wont see drastic negative effects from 250mg/week of test. But your sample size is extremely small, and I myself know multiple users who would need an AI at 250mg/week, else their blood pressure and e2 will skyrocket. Using an AI on "TRT/cruise" means it's not really "TRT/cruise" in my eyes.

 

[Nilatac]

You keep citing Broderick, so lets use one of his analogies.

The body is like a car, you can't red line it forever (you can't blast forever), without blowing a gasket (kidney issues, liver issues, BP, etc.). Now 250mg of test/week is no where near red lining, but lets say it's city cruising at 40mph. Now we could say a TRUE TRT dose, landing in normal physiological range could be idle, or even having the car turned off. Which one would last longer?

I agree with you that most people wont see drastic negative effects from 250mg/week of test. But your sample size is extremely small, and I myself know multiple users who would need an AI at 250mg/week, else their blood pressure and e2 will skyrocket. Using an AI on "TRT/cruise" means it's not really "TRT/cruise" in my eyes.

A true dose of trt for a muscular guy is like you shoot yourself in a foot. If you are in this fitness game having a natural level it won't help you. It won't help you in build muscle or maintain muscle.
Slowly but surely it will come to your natural smaller size

For that analogy applies at "blasting " dosage not 250 mg. (0,5-1,5 or more mg/kg)
If we gave Chavez example but I'm not fully agree with everything he preach you know that he promoted that sport TRT for gym guys. That means 0,3 mg/kg. For a 100 kg guy that's 300 mg.
He put guys who work with him on that sport trt to recover from blasting. If that dose would stop guys to recover and bring value back he wouldn't use that anymore.

It's not only guys that I know. Chavez who worked with thousands said that he couldn't tell of someone is on until 500 mg.
Why if a guy who trained thousands of people among many years says one thing we don't give him credit but if a guy put a shitty study from '60 made on 6 guys and everyone is like h thank you for your infinite knowledge but that study just doesn't apply for our goals.
A guy who train people probably before I was born isn't a small sample size.

A higher estrogen isn't the evil if you don't have the sides. Blood pressure can be very well took under control. Eat right and do some cardio.
From all the people I know that take steroids I know just one guy who have sides like gyno from 150 mg of test.

 

[Nilatac]

From 31:24
If this guy that guide people since forever and saw thousands of blood work is a small size sample and talk shit then I don't what can I say.


View: https://youtu.be/Xj2InZLInmo?si=iQ0j9fcyL9wZAe3q

 

[1lifter23]

From 31:24
If this guy that guide people since forever and saw thousands of blood work is a small size sample and talk shit then I don't what can I say.

I've seen that interview, lots of good info there. I also am not talking shit, just trying to have a conversation.

I think you're missing my point. I AGREE with you that for people with above average muscular development, a testosterone level slightly higher than the "natural range" is beneficial. But do not fool yourself that 250mg of testosterone is "healthy". Again as Broderick has said, you do not GAIN health, and bar drugs that cure illnesses and prevent disease, you do not get healthier from taking drugs. I suppose I might seem pedantic here, but I believe it can be misleading to make blanket statements like 250mg of testosterone/week is a healthy long term dosage for everyone.

Anyways, I think I'll give d-bol a go at 10mg pre-workout to start, and go from there. I have it on hand, and I think it'll give me more of a boost than 250 test would anyhow. Thank you for the conversation.

 

[Trades]

Those guys don't do trt or blast. They are almost 40 and all they take is a amp of test 250 mg. Call that however you want as is not trt but let's be real isn't a proper cycle either.
There is a new thing called "sports trt" that might fit for this habit.
They don't take that 250 mg to be in range just to give a small advantage on the fitness side and feel good about themselves.

I speak to them somehow frequently over the past few years and once in a while when we talk what we have done lately they say: I went to do some blood test. I'm healthy as a horse. Some blood tests are free were I live and they do those regularly.

But there aren't only for those guys. Those 3 guys who train people(Chavez,Kikel and Crossland) saw thousands of blood work during many years said that until 500 mg of test they can't tell from blood work that they are on something or there is a normal person.

Rise of hematocrit level is also a person dependent thing. I who take a shitload of test I don't go above the range. In fact I don't go above the range on anything only if I take a oral the liver value are higher.
But I understand that I might be a exception as not everyone is the same.

Those 2 guys are in rage but they take a small amount.
Same as estrogen problems is a person dependent thing. Even if I try I can't get gyno other person can make gyno on 500 mg.

250 mg of test isn't the pure evil. It might be a blessing for the right person.
If you don't want to be huge I would just take 250 mg of test year around and 2 times a year I would take a oral just for some strength.
When you do your blood work then you will see how good or bad 250 mg of test is.
I believe this is the most healthy approach to be in the fitness game and be healthy rather than cruise then blast or taking primo or whatever steroid you think is "healthy "

Thanks for your response. I agree with you that 250mgs isn't pure evil and might be the right dose for some person. I was just trying to say that it might be working fine for some guys but other guys will have problems at 250...maybe not right away but over time. Since harm reduction is the stated goal in this forum, I felt it appropriate to point that out. I'm the first guy guilty of trying to justify a higher trt/cruise dose than I really need, and if everybody jumped on the "more is better" trt bandwagon (not implying you are saying "more is better") then we might as well go hang out with those two particular idiots that love to talk about trt ad nauseum.

 

[jonthemutant]

I’ve used Dbol at 20mg one of fav doses as the bloat is extremely minimum but the strength and muscle increases are great, but I tend to run it for 8 weeks

 

[Deskoze38192]

Thanks for the reply. I don't drink, I really live like a monk other than lifting and gear. I suppose my liver values could be a bad reaction to Anadrol, but it was also towards the end of a cut, pushing training hard and overall systemic stress was high, so maybe the values were elevated.

I tried taking the full dosage 2hrs pre-workout for 1 week, and I noticed no difference in pumps/strength/energy when splitting the dosage, so I figured higher blood levels would be better (all else being equal).

That all makes perfect sense
If you didn’t notice the preworkout effects taking Anadrol then I would also assume that it is not for you and maybe your body disagrees with it.
Sorry if I missed you discussing this earlier but what about Anavar over dbol?
Some people that don’t get performance increases from drol seem to do better with Anavar for that purpose
And I’m not against Dbol for your goals. But have you thought about its effects on estradiol while on a low dose of Test? On that dose I wouldn’t use an AI at all and then dbol would raise E2 high for a short time and then back down. Could cause some minor issues and I would think some acne issues as well.

 

[1lifter23]

That all makes perfect sense
If you didn’t notice the preworkout effects taking Anadrol then I would also assume that it is not for you and maybe your body disagrees with it.
Sorry if I missed you discussing this earlier but what about Anavar over dbol?
Some people that don’t get performance increases from drol seem to do better with Anavar for that purpose
And I’m not against Dbol for your goals. But have you thought about its effects on estradiol while on a low dose of Test? On that dose I wouldn’t use an AI at all and then dbol would raise E2 high for a short time and then back down. Could cause some minor issues and I would think some acne issues as well.

I don't have a really good reason for choosing dbol over anavar. I know var is used by a lot of people on cuts for "hardening" or whatever, but I don't hear as much about the strength gains from it, as I do with dbol. Maybe I'm just reading the wrong stuff?
I don't require an AI on my cruise which is good, and I'd like to avoid having to deploy it, hence such the low dose of dbol. I'm not looking for anything crazy here, just a slight edge in gym performance to keep weights from dropping too much in the late stage of my diet.
If var is capable of improving gym performance to a comparable degree to d-bol, then I agree with you, and others, that it is more conducive to my goals.
I have d-bol on hand, as well as adrol(which I seem to respond poorly to), so that was my main reason of choosing it. I might end up ordering some var and giving it a go after doing some more reading on its acute performance effects.
Thanks for the reply.

 

[Deskoze38192]

I don't have a really good reason for choosing dbol over anavar. I know var is used by a lot of people on cuts for "hardening" or whatever, but I don't hear as much about the strength gains from it, as I do with dbol. Maybe I'm just reading the wrong stuff?
I don't require an AI on my cruise which is good, and I'd like to avoid having to deploy it, hence such the low dose of dbol. I'm not looking for anything crazy here, just a slight edge in gym performance to keep weights from dropping too much in the late stage of my diet.
If var is capable of improving gym performance to a comparable degree to d-bol, then I agree with you, and others, that it is more conducive to my goals.
I have d-bol on hand, as well as adrol(which I seem to respond poorly to), so that was my main reason of choosing it. I might end up ordering some var and giving it a go after doing some more reading on its acute performance effects.
Thanks for the reply.

Yeah some people get really good strength gains from Var and excellent pumps.
Sounds like a good plan to try and see. Can’t hurt.

 

[Nilatac]

Not directly to what we discussed about 250mg/week and health but I scroll in his posts and I find this video.
I will just put it here as it might be useful.


View: https://www.instagram.com/reel/CrdlYtKgHn9/?igshid=MmU2YjMzNjRlOQ%3D%3D