Lowering Tirzepatide tolerance

[onlyontrt]

Just wondering if anyone has any experience with lowering Tirzepatide tolerance. I have been on 10mg/week for about 6 months now and I don't even think I feel it anymore. I'm on a pretty strict diet which is working but it is definitely a conscious effort and i'm still hungry but push through with will power. I have friends that are on it and losing weight without even trying because they don't get hungry or get full quickly which is how I felt when i was first on it.

I know I can up the dosage to 15 mg but I am trying to save that for my big summer cut. I imagine the issues I am having is due to high tolerance so i'm wondering if stopping for about a month or maybe temporarily switching to or adding semaglutide will help. I've also seen some things about people switching to cagrilintide but i admittedly haven't done any research on that compound.

 

[Ghoul]

Tbf, though, we don't know whether that was the case for this gentleman, to begin with

While someone using a GLP to drop below a healthy weight for aesthetic reasons certainly doesn't need a GLP for weight control purposes, anyone who wants to delay, prevent, or even reverse a multitude of nearly universal conditions and live a healthier, longer life certainly does need it.

It's like suggesting no needs the polio vaccine or antibiotics.

 

[BigTomJ]

Whatever. It's clear you're another knuckle dragger whose desire to believe their ability to more easily maintain an ideal wait is because of some superior strength of will.

Sounds good.

Have fun relying on drugs to do every bit of work for you.
Its not even about some iron clad will or self discipline, its about having even the most basic understanding of nutrition.
Slamming drugs to deal with your unhealthy relationship with food is moronic and youd have to do some serious mental gymnastics to justify that position as being optimal.

A belief that requires ignoring an insurmountable amount of science about the underlying biology of weight regulation.

"the insurmountable amount of science" lmao.
"weight regulation" has always been exactly the same in every human that has ever existed. Energy balance.
period. end of story. that all the science, confirmed over and over and over.
42% of americans are obese, with 4/5 top mortalities being directly related or caused by obesity.

25 years ago 11% were obese.

Did we biologically evolve to be more obese in that time? Obviously not.
It is a product of advancements in highly palatable, cheap to consume, highly processed energy dense foods and drinks coupled with the explosion of the digital era promoting a higher level of sedentary lifestyle than any other point in all of human history.

societally and culturally, being obese has become common place and acceptable, leading to less inhibition on over consuming and under exerting. Allowing more and more people, even at a young age, to develop extremely damaged relationships with food.

Its an addition.

GLP1s are comparable to nicotine alternatives to cigarettes (patch, gum, vape, ect)
It is using an alternative to avoid the more damaging practice, and CAN be useful as the boost to make the first steps.
If they just swap to a vape, with no plan or practice to take steps towards kicking that habit, they will maintain that dependency, that relationship, that addiction indefinitely, and when it is taken away, they will inevitable return to the damaging practice they started with.
The exact same is true with GLP1s, if an individual is struggling with weight loss, and relies on a GLP1 to do the work, without making the proper lifestyle changes, as soon as the GLP1 is removed, they will return right back to the unhealthy eating habits and food relationship they started with.

So in both examples, the alternatives are WORTHLESS without making the internal changes necessary.

Lay off the steroids and let the world see the real you, a product of generations of sub-par genetics propagated by beta men mating with low value women.

You listen to too much andrew tate, speaking of sub-par genetics beta males.

My steroid use is for a competitive purpose, I was very satisfied with my physique prior to my enhancement and should i have not chosen to compete in bodybuilding i would have remained natural indefinitely.

I find it ironic that you are arguing from some perceived status of superiority about genetics and alpha/beta males, while admitting you lack the basic personal accountability to say no to a cupcake.
kinda embarassing

 

[BigTomJ]

While someone using a GLP to drop below a healthy weight for aesthetic reasons certainly doesn't need a GLP for weight control purposes, anyone who wants to delay, prevent, or even reverse a multitude of nearly universal conditions and live a healthier, longer life certainly does need it.

It's like suggesting no needs the polio vaccine or antibiotics.

equating an appetite suppressant to penicillin has to be the greatest feat of mental gymnastics ive ever seen on this board.

Antibiotics are irreplaceable, when you need them, if you dont get them, you die.
GLP1s are replaced by eating an extra cup of broccoli with your meals.

 

[iris]

societally and culturally, being obese has become common place and acceptable, leading to less inhibition on over consuming and under exerting. Allowing more and more people, even at a young age, to develop extremely damaged relationships with food.



GLP1s are comparable to nicotine alternatives to cigarettes (patch, gum, vape, ect)
It is using an alternative to avoid the more damaging practice, and CAN be useful as the boost to make the first steps.
If they just swap to a vape, with no plan or practice to take steps towards kicking that habit, they will maintain that dependency, that relationship, that addiction indefinitely, and when it is taken away, they will inevitable return to the damaging practice they started with.
The exact same is true with GLP1s, if an individual is struggling with weight loss, and relies on a GLP1 to do the work, without making the proper lifestyle changes, as soon as the GLP1 is removed, they will return right back to the unhealthy eating habits and food relationship they started with.

So in both examples, the alternatives are WORTHLESS without making the internal changes necessary.

This.
100% agree

 

[onlyontrt]

If you were experiencing significant appetite suppression that induced weight loss, especially at a lower dose, and you continued on the current, higher dose, that appetite would return well before you returned to starting weight, becoming more potent as weight increased. Of course there's a fluctuation of a few pounds one way or the other because of variations in endogenous GLP production, but the drug hasn't stopped working. Unless you took long breaks, over a month, which does seem to make it less effective for some people.

This makes sense. Thank you.

 

[onlyontrt]

Sounds good.

Have fun relying on drugs to do every bit of work for you.
Its not even about some iron clad will or self discipline, its about having even the most basic understanding of nutrition.
Slamming drugs to deal with your unhealthy relationship with food is moronic and youd have to do some serious mental gymnastics to justify that position as being optimal.


"the insurmountable amount of science" lmao.
"weight regulation" has always been exactly the same in every human that has ever existed. Energy balance.
period. end of story. that all the science, confirmed over and over and over.
42% of americans are obese, with 4/5 top mortalities being directly related or caused by obesity.

25 years ago 11% were obese.

Did we biologically evolve to be more obese in that time? Obviously not.
It is a product of advancements in highly palatable, cheap to consume, highly processed energy dense foods and drinks coupled with the explosion of the digital era promoting a higher level of sedentary lifestyle than any other point in all of human history.

societally and culturally, being obese has become common place and acceptable, leading to less inhibition on over consuming and under exerting. Allowing more and more people, even at a young age, to develop extremely damaged relationships with food.

Its an addition.

GLP1s are comparable to nicotine alternatives to cigarettes (patch, gum, vape, ect)
It is using an alternative to avoid the more damaging practice, and CAN be useful as the boost to make the first steps.
If they just swap to a vape, with no plan or practice to take steps towards kicking that habit, they will maintain that dependency, that relationship, that addiction indefinitely, and when it is taken away, they will inevitable return to the damaging practice they started with.
The exact same is true with GLP1s, if an individual is struggling with weight loss, and relies on a GLP1 to do the work, without making the proper lifestyle changes, as soon as the GLP1 is removed, they will return right back to the unhealthy eating habits and food relationship they started with.

So in both examples, the alternatives are WORTHLESS without making the internal changes necessary.


You listen to too much andrew tate, speaking of sub-par genetics beta males.

My steroid use is for a competitive purpose, I was very satisfied with my physique prior to my enhancement and should i have not chosen to compete in bodybuilding i would have remained natural indefinitely.

I find it ironic that you are arguing from some perceived status of superiority about genetics and alpha/beta males, while admitting you lack the basic personal accountability to say no to a cupcake.
kinda embarassing

What I'm saying is I know about 20 different people not in the bodybuilding scene or health scene at all that are using it and are not concerned about protein or anything like that. All they care about is the number on the scale. Right or wrong that is what they're doing. They get blood work and go to the doctors and are still healthier with it than without it.
These people are losing weight effortlessly. The word diet is not in there vocabulary the medication is simply making them eat less and it is working for them.

I on the other hand have been taking it and it worked that way for a while and stopped. So I am implementing old fashioned dieting, cardio and hitting protein. It feels just like any other time I have dieted where I do it because I have to and that is the way.

Which lead to this post. If I am dieting hard and mentally struggling with it like anyone else that has had to diet before these medications. Then it leads me to believe that this medication is no longer working for me and my "tolerance" for it has gone up. It has nothing to do with my ability or understanding of dieting. I know how to diet, I just see in my daily life people that don't know how to and are able to eat less. Thus why this post was created. If i'm going to diet and will power through like I always have. Then why am I taking it. I will diet anyways but it should be helping with the will power but at this current dose it is not.

What @Ghoul says make sense in the reasons as to why.

 

[onlyontrt]

There continues to be a fundamental misunderstanding of how these drugs work.

They're not diet pills that induce appetite reduction when you take them.

They're hormones that set the body's weight regulating "thermostat" to a lower level. Since appetite reduction and the weight loss inducing effects are the body's natural mechanism to regulating weight, once the "setting" is reached appetite suppression weakens, then stops.

If you put on 10 pounds, and stayed on the same dose, appetite suppression would return, until you returned to the weight set point again.

To lose more weight you have to increase the dose, effectively lowering the "thermostat" further.

I'm curious.

If hypothetically someone starts at 400 lbs and gets down to 280 at 15mg Tirz and then stall. Is that persons thermostat as far as it can go because 15mg is the highest dose? Will they have to do it the old fashion way from there on out?

 

[BigTomJ]

If i'm going to diet and will power through like I always have.

It feels just like any other time I have dieted where I do it because I have to and that is the way.

Why does it sound like youve gotten fat and dieted a bunch of times?
Correct me if this is the wrong assumption.

If my assumption is correct than you probably do not actually know how to diet. Im not saying this to bust your balls or beat my chest or anything like that, but just pointing out a potential dunning Krueger.

You havent mentioned bf levels at any point that i saw, so we dont have any frame of reference as to your starting point, current point, or end goal. That being said, there is absolutely zero reason to suffer in a diet just to get to a healthy bodyfat level. It shouldnt be a monumental test of will until you get closer to single digits, if it is, then there are bigger issues going on.

the reason why, statistically, most diets fail is because gen pop and even professional nutritionists have almost zero understanding how to intelligently design a proper, sustainable diet through caloric deficit and almost all of them try to dive into a far too extreme deficit and pay zero attention to food selection or digestion.


TLDR; if you feel like you need to rely on a GLP1 medication to make your diet down to healthy bf levels tolerable, you're almost certainly dieting in a less than ideal way.




GLP1s are expensive right now because of so many people having a fundamental lack of understanding in nutrition and energy balance, they are in extreme high demand.
I imagine you arent thrilled to be spending the money on them, only to not get the effect your expect.
There is a lot of intelligent people here, why dont you take some time to outline your current progress, timeline, and what your current diet is and some of us may help make it a bit more effective and take better advantage of the sema without having to pour more money into a larger dose and greater risk of dangerous side effects

 

[onlyontrt]

Why does it sound like youve gotten fat and dieted a bunch of times?
Correct me if this is the wrong assumption.

If my assumption is correct than you probably do not actually know how to diet. Im not saying this to bust your balls or beat my chest or anything like that, but just pointing out a potential dunning Krueger.

You havent mentioned bf levels at any point that i saw, so we dont have any frame of reference as to your starting point, current point, or end goal. That being said, there is absolutely zero reason to suffer in a diet just to get to a healthy bodyfat level. It shouldnt be a monumental test of will until you get closer to single digits, if it is, then there are bigger issues going on.

the reason why, statistically, most diets fail is because gen pop and even professional nutritionists have almost zero understanding how to intelligently design a proper, sustainable diet through caloric deficit and almost all of them try to dive into a far too extreme deficit and pay zero attention to food selection or digestion.


TLDR; if you feel like you need to rely on a GLP1 medication to make your diet down to healthy bf levels tolerable, you're almost certainly dieting in a less than ideal way.




GLP1s are expensive right now because of so many people having a fundamental lack of understanding in nutrition and energy balance, they are in extreme high demand.
I imagine you arent thrilled to be spending the money on them, only to not get the effect your expect.
There is a lot of intelligent people here, why dont you take some time to outline your current progress, timeline, and what your current diet is and some of us may help make it a bit more effective and take better advantage of the sema without having to pour more money into a larger dose and greater risk of dangerous side effects

I've never mentioned bf% because I have never got it tested. Anything I say would just be a guess. I do have a weight scale that says bf% but i've seen people get ripped to shreds for using that as ik it isn't the most accurate.

I've been everything from so skinny people would make crackhead jokes (ran track in college) to obese.

The hard part for me is i'm extremely social and live in southern california wine country. As in, every weekend friends, my wife and family want to do something that involves drinking (mainly wine) and after drinks come the food. I do not partake. Also, both my wife and I work from home and she is one of those people that can seemingly eat what she wants and not gain to much. She says lets go here for lunch and I have to say no i'm eating my bbq chicken and rice. But that is the will power part and where i had hoped GLP would help. As i mentioned before ik a lot of people that the thought of partaking makes them sick because of the GLP.

 

[onlyontrt]

I have a gym in my garage. Idk if bf% testing is something they offer at a typical commercial gym.

 

[BigTomJ]

I've never mentioned bf% because I have never got it tested. Anything I say would just be a guess. I do have a weight scale that says bf% but i've seen people get ripped to shreds for using that as ik it isn't the most accurate.

If you are comfortable posting a picture, we would be able to give it a pretty good guess.

I've been everything from so skinny people would make crackhead jokes (ran track in college) to obese.

The hard part for me is i'm extremely social and live in southern california wine country. As in, every weekend friends, my wife and family want to do something that involves drinking (mainly wine) and after drinks come the food.

Sounds like your struggle is the classic blunder.
Balance.
Very few people want to live the bodybuilding lifestyle, and very few people should.
For almost all people, a balance between health and enjoyment is important.

time your meals so that you eat before you are planning on attending a social event or going out, that way you will be less tempted to overindulge.
That way you can still enjoy the social aspect of your lifestyle but limit the unhealthy or excessive portions of it to healthy moderation.

I do not partake. Also, both my wife and I work from home and she is one of those people that can seemingly eat what she wants and not gain to much. She says lets go here for lunch and I have to say no i'm eating my bbq chicken and rice.

Having a partner that is aware, and supportive of your goals is important to success.
There is a similar situation within my own household.
I am very much in a growth phase, with the potential for a lot of flexibility in my diet, while my fiance is very much on a diet in preparation for our wedding next month.
This requires me to be mindful of my indulgences and suggestions for when we do choose to go out.
You can still go out and enjoy lunch with your wife, but just be mindful of your choices and portions.

But that is the will power part and where i had hoped GLP would help. As i mentioned before ik a lot of people that the thought of partaking makes them sick because of the GLP.

I understand the appeal, but would you honestly rather be nauseated at the thought of enjoying your food when you go out, or would you rather enjoy your food when you go out, but just choose a less calorie dense option?

 

[Ghoul]

I'm curious.

If hypothetically someone starts at 400 lbs and gets down to 280 at 15mg Tirz and then stall. Is that persons thermostat as far as it can go because 15mg is the highest dose? Will they have to do it the old fashion way from there on out?

That's as high of a dose as they took the clinical trials. Why they stopped there I don't know. Maybe an abundance of caution, to leave room for their next generation, or leaving higher doses as a later project for the small minority that needs them. As it is, normal body weight is achieved in around 90% at 15mg.

Novo stopped with Sema at 2.4mg, but revisited it and are about to wrap up Phase 3 of what appears to be a successful trial at 7.2mg. Presumably the higher dose will be used for exactly what you describe, to turn down the "thermostat" in those for whom 2.4mg isn't enough. It certainly appears that as dosage of any of these synthetic hormones increases, there are no "non-responders".

Receptor density is almost certainty the reason for this, and is the basis for the genetic tests that predict the effectiveness of GLPs.

And just like TRT, there is no tolerance that develops over time requiring a higher dose. If that were the case, we wouldn't see weight stabilized for years with subjects staying on the same dose.

As for the "old fashioned way", despite many people struggling for years, even after losing significant weight, over 90% will revert to a higher weight within a few years.

Clearly trash like @BigTomJ would prefer to frame this as them simply being weak willed (despite them losing the weight initially, likely experiencing intense hunger every moment of every day as their bodies push them to regain weight), conveniently giving him something to believe makes him superior to others.

 

[BigTomJ]

Clearly trash like @BigTomJ would prefer to frame this as them simply being weak willed (despite them losing the weight initially, likely experiencing intense hunger every moment of every day as their bodies push them to regain weight), conveniently giving him something to believe makes him superior to others.

You sound like the losers that petition for an extra seat for free when flying because they are too fat to fit in one seat and they are "healthy at any size"

Good use of fat acceptance talking points and completely avoiding absolutely any acknowledgement of personal accountability, youre right, its not your fault its the big bad foods fault and your big bad bodies fault.

for your disingenuous position to hold water youd have to completely ignore each and every contributing factor to the current obesity epidemic, the success of diets in gen pop, and nutrition in general.

but by all means, please do pathetically try and frame that as me claiming to be superior or whatever bullshit is rattling around in your empty head.

 

[iris]

OP, by the sound of things you will be able to figure things out and how to move forward.
See you guys.
Love u and leave u.