Macros (IIFYM) VS "Clean Eating"

[AntJB1017]

Have seen a lot of guys on here talk about cutting or getting lean on 10carbs- no carbs per day. Also everyonetalking about "clean eating" and throwing around that overly used bro science term. In my opinion that is fucking retarted. With today's training and nutrition research based on science there is absolutely no reason why you should be walking around depleted, exhausted, and emotionally drained. There is NO such thing as clean eating. What is clean? It doesn't matter whether I have 2 cups of oatmeal pre training, or if I have two pop tarts; It's what makes up the Macros in the nutrition facts. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE except the micronutrients, such as iron, vitamins, etc. The Old school approach or "eating clean" is bland chicken and rice for every meal of the day and hours of cooking. Not touching food unless it's labeled "healthy." I have cut down to beyond shredded and stage ready with a proper program implemented, 20-30 minutes of cardio per day, and all while enjoying an abundance of carbs and fats from items such as pop tarts, low fat ice cream, etc. 225 carbs, 65g of fat and 180grams of protein daily to be exact, and varied based on body changes and how close I was to stage. Why make yourself miserable and force yourself to eat "clean" when you can achieve the SAME goals by tracking your macros, and enjoying delicious carbs every day of your life in your training and nutrition regimen. Figure out your stats, find out your body fat percentage, know your goals, and calculate your daily macros.

To summarize it quickly, macros are your calories, fats, protein, carbs, and dietary fiber that you will be hitting per day, gram per gram. Basically you can eat whatever you want to as long as you stay within your numbers... yes, WHATEVER, you want to, every day. Obviously you will have to find a balance, and track your food and meals religiously, but after a week it becomes second nature. That does not mean eat anything that is labeled "junk food." Obviously you can't hit your protein eating nothing but pop tarts, so you will have to supplement with a good whey, and have some solid bodybuilding meals with chicken and such. This only works if you weigh all of your foods, and hit your numbers PRECISELY, based on your goals. There is no excuse to say you don't have time to log your foods, and track your numbers. It is easier than preparing your food itself. I use my fitness pal which makes it easiest. There are millions of food in the database and you can even scan bar codes or create your own foods. It is set up specifically for bodybuilders and macros. If you are cutting, put your usual macros in a deficit and find out what you need to be lean based on your weight and program. If you are bulking, put your macros in a surplus and enjoy that damn food. A bulk for me starting at 185 pounds (varies as you increase weight) is about 400 carbs, 100g fat, and 200 grams of protein. As you track throughout the day do not look at it as calories. Track based on your carbs, fats, and proteins. All of these macronutrients are what MAKES UP a calorie.

Bottom line, if you're tired of taking that bullshit "clean" and "healthy" eating approach, start tracking and logging your macros every day and get on a proper program. This is all based on years of scientific training. Remember bodybuilding and proper nutrition is nothing but science. Thanks for reading if you've made it this far. Had to share this info.

- Anthony B.
Fitness Enthusiast/Bodybuilder
5"7 185 10% bf.

 

[Ackmud]

Contradicts himself where at several spots he insists that it makes "no difference" what source the carbs and fats come from, but then says in addition to a whey supplement you'll also need some "solid bodybuilding meals with chicken and such..."

 

[ErikR]

Contradicts himself where at several spots he insists that it makes "no difference" what source the carbs and fats come from, but then says in addition to a whey supplement you'll also need some "solid bodybuilding meals with chicken and such..."

Because you will never meet your protein goals on pop tarts and ice cream. You need to meet your protein intake goals. Foods that have high protein are eggs beef chicken etc. I do agree with iffym as far as body composition. I just don't know if it's a healthy way of eating.

 

[AntJB1017]

Because you will never meet your protein goals on pop tarts and ice cream. You need to meet your protein intake goals. Foods that have high protein are eggs beef chicken etc. I do agree with iffym as far as body composition. I just don't know if it's a healthy way of eating.

Thanks for the backup brother.

 

[AntJB1017]

Contradicts himself where at several spots he insists that it makes "no difference" what source the carbs and fats come from, but then says in addition to a whey supplement you'll also need some "solid bodybuilding meals with chicken and such..."

Guess you are part of the "clean" eating squad lol.

 

[Viper92]

This sums up what I think of IIFYM: IIFYM: The Good, Bad, and the Ugly | T Nation

 

[tenpoundsleft]

This sums up what I think of IIFYM: IIFYM: The Good, Bad, and the Ugly | T Nation

That's a good one! Some quotes:

The issue with eating crap and allowing some of that crap to displace nutritious food is that your appetite changes, your brain changes, and your gut microbiota changes. These physiological changes can make it very difficult to continue eating small portions of junk and staying within the macronutrient and calorie allotment. These changes also make it harder to enjoy nutritious food – you know, the stuff that satiates and makes you feel full.

But nobody needs to tell you that your preference for quality food decreases when your exposure to shitty food increases. People who eat mostly healthy food tend to prefer mostly healthy food. People who eat mostly shitty food have a hard time appreciating the healthy stuff.

The calories you get from protein actually make the body work to break them down. So eating a 400 calorie plate of fish is going to be dramatically different than eating a 400 calorie plate of pasta.

Micronutrient deficiencies, like Vitamin D and magnesium deficiency, can really impede your goals.

 

[Ackmud]

Because you will never meet your protein goals on pop tarts and ice cream. You need to meet your protein intake goals. Foods that have high protein are eggs beef chicken etc. I do agree with iffym as far as body composition. I just don't know if it's a healthy way of eating.

I know it's not literally eating pop tarts + a protein supplement, but based on the rest of the OP's description one should be able to have 3-4 protein shakes to get what they need and the rest of the calories can be from frozen dinners, fast food, kraft dinner, etc whatever the flexible dieter likes - but once you put a requirement like rice and chicken meals then a few pop tarts or fun foods here and there then it's really no different than a typical bodybuilders diet- because even ones who do eat "clean" mostly still have some "cheat foods" here and there

 

[Ackmud]

Guess you are part of the "clean" eating squad lol.

far from the truth, but I'm now gradually transitioning to it - most of my weightlifting life I've just focused on getting about 1 gram protein per lb bodyweight and eating whatever else I craved for Carbs and fats - but whenever I actually focused on lowering fat intake and getting carbs from rice, potatoes and other "clean sources" I found my physique and even overall sense of well being improve.

I like to try both for myself and not get in the habit of debating which online articles are true vs false. What works for you might not work for me.

 

[AntJB1017]

far from the truth, but I'm now gradually transitioning to it - most of my weightlifting life I've just focused on getting about 1 gram protein per lb bodyweight and eating whatever else I craved for Carbs and fats - but whenever I actually focused on lowering fat intake and getting carbs from rice, potatoes and other "clean sources" I found my physique and even overall sense of well being improve.

I like to try both for myself and not get in the habit of debating which online articles are true vs false. What works for you might not work for me.

I agree with that statement man. Everyone responds differently to different methods 100%.

 

[beameupscotty]

This is my personal experience, far from science, but it reiterates how everyone responds differently. I have tried eating not "clean" but still within my macros... the results were absolutely horrible. My body composition changed (for the worse), I noticed less drive in the gym, and overall did not feel as good as when eating "clean." I know people can disagree with this all they want, but it is my experience. Trust me, if I could throw pop-tarts in my diet to replace oatmeal, I would... but I just don't have a positive response. Kudos to those who can eat whatever they want and get away with it.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

This is my personal experience, far from science, but it reiterates how everyone responds differently. I have tried eating not "clean" but still within my macros... the results were absolutely horrible. My body composition changed (for the worse), I noticed less drive in the gym, and overall did not feel as good as when eating "clean." I know people can disagree with this all they want, but it is my experience. Trust me, if I could throw pop-tarts in my diet to replace oatmeal, I would... but I just don't have a positive response. Kudos to those who can eat whatever they want and get away with it.

I agree, I think the mental component is important - you get used to being satisfied with clean. If you eat crap (tasty but crap) you'l be frustrated because you have to limit portion size. To me the nice thing with eating clean is that I don't "have" to weigh and count. Sure, that won't get me to single digit BF, but it's gotten me to 10%. I'm just not fanatical enough (yet) to punish myself with more extreme food mgmt. And I do cheat meals.

BTW, I have a bit of a "German" obsession over the frequency and consistency of my #2 sessions - I use that to judge how well food sits with me.

 

[AntJB1017]

I agree, I think the mental component is important - you get used to being satisfied with clean. If you eat crap (tasty but crap) you'l be frustrated because you have to limit portion size. To me the nice thing with eating clean is that I don't "have" to weigh and count. Sure, that won't get me to single digit BF, but it's gotten me to 10%. I'm just not fanatical enough (yet) to punish myself with more extreme food mgmt. And I do cheat meals.

BTW, I have a bit of a "German" obsession over the frequency and consistency of my #2 sessions - I use that to judge how well food sits with me.

Good post brother. I agree. As of right now I will wake up, hit 60grams of protein and have two pop tarts before the gym. 62 grams of protein total, 90 carbs, and 11.5 grams of fat. I do that every day first thing in the morning pre training. The main reason I preach IIFYM is because my appetite is little to none at certain times of the day especially in the morning when I am trying to wake up for the gym. So instead of preparing tons of food, (like chicken, rice, and veggies) I will pick and choose what I want when I eat. For example, at the end of the day if I have 100g carbs, 25g of fat, and no protein left, I will eat carb and fat dense food until my macros are fulfilled. I prefer to eat all of my "healthy" foods throughout the day and mainly hitting my daily protein goal throughout the course of my day and then late at night I save tons of carbs and fat and indulge into not so good food until those requirements are met. Typically I eat the same thing throughout the day, 6 days a week to fulfill my macros. On Sunday, I will call that my cheat day and only track my protein. On a regular day I eat about 350g carbs, 90g of fat, and 200g of protein. Most of my macros during the day are protein shakes, fat free skim milk, Greek yogurts, and a good seasoned chicken. We are so influenced by mass media that everyone looks at a Pop tart and call it "junk," and "that you will get fat, etc." I look at it as 85 carbs, 3g of protein, and 10 g of fat. If you are training on a proper program hitting main muscles twice a week, and meeting your macros precisely and consistently, you can indulge in things like pop tarts every day and still make the same gains. To maximize your macros, the best way to train is the following split. Everyone does respond to certain things differently though.

• Monday: Lower Power (Main compound movements like squat and deadlift and heavy rows as well as pump work on biceps and back.)
• Tuesday: Upper power (Heavy bench press at 8x3-8, Over head press at 5x6, heavy incline dumbbell and chest and triceps pump work.
• Wednesday: Light shoulder pump work and mobility work instead of a rest day. Post Cardio on Stairmaster for 45 minutes.
• Thursday: Legs Volume/hypertrophy (Squats 4x12, Stiff legged dead 3x12, Leg extension 5x15, Hammies 6x15, 4 sets of seated calves/another 4 of standing calf raises.
• Friday: Push Hypertrophy (Overhead Press 3x12, flat dumbbell bench 5x10, incline smith machine press 4x12, Incline Db flies 5x15, Pec deck 5x15, and serious pump work on triceps.
• Saturday: Pull Hypertrophy (Single db row 5x12, t bar row 3x12, High plate rows 5x12, Lat pulldown 5x12, Straight arm lat pulldown 5x15.)
• Sunday: Free day, blast arms, abs, and cardio.

With this program you are training the muscles frequently focusing on power one day and volume the second time around. It is designed to be able to train the muscles 2-3 times a week in different aspects but give you enough recovery time.

 

[insaiyan93]

I dknt think IIFYM is meant for people to just go balls to the wall filling out their macros with nothing but junk just because it fits.

It's a tool to allow yourself a little wiggle room in an otherwise good diet so you dont go fucking nuts.

I have been cutting using IIFYM for almost a year now with great results. When you allow yourself a little room on a daily basis it takes away the need to have cheat meals which as you know can turn into a total clusterfuck.

It's common sense.

 

[AntJB1017]

I dknt think IIFYM is meant for people to just go balls to the wall filling out their macros with nothing but junk just because it fits.

It's a tool to allow yourself a little wiggle room in an otherwise good diet so you dont go fucking nuts.

I have been cutting using IIFYM for almost a year now with great results. When you allow yourself a little room on a daily basis it takes away the need to have cheat meals which as you know can turn into a total clusterfuck.

It's common sense.

Couldn't of said it better. My whole point was that you don't have to kill yourself witht the same ol shit hahah

 

[insaiyan93]

Dom really explains it the best lol

 

[Ackmud]

I dknt think IIFYM is meant for people to just go balls to the wall filling out their macros with nothing but junk just because it fits.

It's a tool to allow yourself a little wiggle room in an otherwise good diet so you dont go fucking nuts.

I have been cutting using IIFYM for almost a year now with great results. When you allow yourself a little room on a daily basis it takes away the need to have cheat meals which as you know can turn into a total clusterfuck.

It's common sense.

If that's all it is then I'm also following a IIFYM diet without even knowing. For example I have an idea of how much protein and Carbs I want per meal and generally which source it will come from, but depending on how I feel I might have a protein shake instead of egg whites sometimes, or potatoes instead of rice, or bell peppers instead of peas etc. And I'll still cheat and eat junk food once in a while or throw in a protein bar if craving something else. I'd be surprised if anyone eats the exact same thing each meal of each day and never cheats.

 

[RodgerThat]

If that's all it is then I'm also following a IIFYM diet without even knowing. For example I have an idea of how much protein and Carbs I want per meal and generally which source it will come from, but depending on how I feel I might have a protein shake instead of egg whites sometimes, or potatoes instead of rice, or bell peppers instead of peas etc. And I'll still cheat and eat junk food once in a while or throw in a protein bar if craving something else. I'd be surprised if anyone eats the exact same thing each meal of each day and never cheats.

Everyone in this industry is following an IIFYM scheme unless they don't track their food. If you know how much protein carbs and fats your body needs/optimal level and try to hit those numbers whether it be with a well written out clean meal plan that hits those macros (there for filling the macros) or if it's a daily variable change diet that allows you to eat what you want that day as long as you eat smart.

For the OP there are many a benefit to the whole "clean eating" (I say that in quotations because the only real clean eating is washing your food and hands first) it's the micronutrients and the saturation of the food/digestive time. If you just eat IIFYM with protein shakes pop tarts and low fat ice cream even if there's a "bodybuilding chicken meal" in there you won't hit nearly enough fibre or get the real food benifits. Yes there's supplements but for example a creatine supplement does not saturate the same as the creatine you get in red meats.

I plan diets either meal by meal or day by day or weekly totals and sometimes if the person is really irresponsible with tracking I'll write out everything in every meal (that one is just for my momma cause she don't understand the ol MyFitnessPal app). It doesn't matter to me if it's a guy like @insaiyan93 who I know is responsible so I give him weekly totals and check in to see how she goes or if it's like my mom with every meal, the end goal is filling macros but doing so in a way they can sustainably eat like that and trust me no one susatianably eats like shit for years and doesn't lose focus or get fat.

 

[AntJB1017]

Everyone in this industry is following an IIFYM scheme unless they don't track their food. If you know how much protein carbs and fats your body needs/optimal level and try to hit those numbers whether it be with a well written out clean meal plan that hits those macros (there for filling the macros) or if it's a daily variable change diet that allows you to eat what you want that day as long as you eat smart.

For the OP there are many a benefit to the whole "clean eating" (I say that in quotations because the only real clean eating is washing your food and hands first) it's the micronutrients and the saturation of the food/digestive time. If you just eat IIFYM with protein shakes pop tarts and low fat ice cream even if there's a "bodybuilding chicken meal" in there you won't hit nearly enough fibre or get the real food benifits. Yes there's supplements but for example a creatine supplement does not saturate the same as the creatine you get in red meats.

I plan diets either meal by meal or day by day or weekly totals and sometimes if the person is really irresponsible with tracking I'll write out everything in every meal (that one is just for my momma cause she don't understand the ol MyFitnessPal app). It doesn't matter to me if it's a guy like @insaiyan93 who I know is responsible so I give him weekly totals and check in to see how she goes or if it's like my mom with every meal, the end goal is filling macros but doing so in a way they can sustainably eat like that and trust me no one susatianably eats like shit for years and doesn't lose focus or get fat.

My main thing was talking on the term clean eating and more flexible ways to not be miserable eating. Macros are the main key, but you are correct the micronutrients play a big role too and you have to get them through the micronutrient dense foods. I wasn't exactly saying to eat nothing but ice cream and pop tarts, but more of saying that it is 100% acceptable and you can still manage a deficit if you do.

 

[RodgerThat]

My main thing was talking on the term clean eating and more flexible ways to not be miserable eating. Macros are the main key, but you are correct the micronutrients play a big role too and you have to get them through the micronutrient dense foods. I wasn't exactly saying to eat nothing but ice cream and pop tarts, but more of saying that it is 100% acceptable and you can still manage a deficit if you do.

Yes and you can manage a deficit by eating just Cheetos too if you have enough will power or not enough Cheetos. I too did the eat whatever I want then fill in the remaining protein but it's just not a life long sustainable thing to do. If you are on a constant bulk then cut lifestyle where it's always fluctuating sure but I'm more at a maintanence phase in life and you just can't eat like that. What you can do and what's optimal for the body are very different things.

There's a sticky in the nutrition section that covers everything IIFYM/DCA check it out