Maintaining Hair on Primo

[PushPullPl8s]

Hey guys - wanted to pick your brains on any insight, experience, knowledge about maintaining hair on primo. Some background:

Tried primo mid-March for a month and experienced very bad hair loss. Stopped using it. My hair was fine before, but began experiencing lots of breakage, thinning, and some slight receding (could just be hair loss around the temples, not not necessarily receding). I would say that I've lost roughly 20-30% of volume and whatever else that left with it.

Cycle at the time was -

300mg Primo E/weekly
600mg Test E/weekly
7mg anavar/daily
9mg cialis/daily
250iu HCG/EOD

As far as I'm aware a 5AR-inhibitor such as finastaride/dutastaride won't work as those inhibit 5AR not DHT itself.

Ru and pyrilitumide worry me as I've heard due to it's anti-androgen effect goes systemic and causes atrophy of the heart. That's as far as I'm aware of these two, I know there's so much more about them.

I've used as high as 900mg test e/750mg deca/750 tren e with no issues to my hair. But using a DHT derivative absolutely had an affect. (I'm aware that was a moronic cycle)

The only concerning thing was my TSH was far out of the reference range. At the time/currently I'm dieting very hard on 2000 calories a day.

I can provide more info on the blood work if it was needed, but estrogens were high but in range - i thought maybe primo crashed my estrogen and that could've caused my hair loss however that wasn't the case? Learned that it doesn't reduce estrogen just has a affinity to it, thus making estrogen less available/usable (please correct me if I'm wrong)

That's all for now. I hope this can spark some good discussion!

I hope this was the appropriate section to post this.

 

[Canknucklehead]

Try Nizoral shampoo 2%

 

[PushPullPl8s]

Try Nizoral shampoo 2%

If I'm not mistaken, ketoconazole is a 5-AR inhibitor which won't help - unless there are further actions or mechanisms that help when applied topically. Anyone have insight on this?

 

[Cyp180]

take 2.5mg Finasteride and cut them in half, so about 1.2mg ED. You can also use a derma roller as addition.

 

[PushPullPl8s]

take 2.5mg Finasteride and cut them in half, so about 1.2mg ED. You can also use a derma roller as addition.

If I'm not mistaken, a 5AR inhibitor won't have an affect on a DHT-derivitive as 5AR isn't the issue but the DHT itself since it doesn't undergo 5AR activity

 

[Cyp180]

If I'm not mistaken, a 5AR inhibitor won't have an affect on a DHT-derivitive as 5AR isn't the issue but the DHT itself since it doesn't undergo 5AR activity

Fina is medically used for hair loss at that dose

 

[PushPullPl8s]

Fina is medically used for hair loss at that dose

I understand that, however the way of it's mechanism is to inhibit 5AR, the conversion of testosterone to DHT.
I believe this would be useless when taking a DHT derivative as the compound does not undergo 5AR.

 

[Cyp180]

Might be good to read here

Hair Loss

Have you noticed any negative heart side effects while using the minox? And are you using topical or oral? Adding my own data point. On 1mg fin daily and 5% topical minoxidil 2x per day for over 20yrs. Added oral minox 2.5ng 4 years ago. zero sides since then BP unchanged ; i see a...

thinksteroids.com

 

[jJjburton]

Hey guys - wanted to pick your brains on any insight, experience, knowledge about maintaining hair on primo. Some background:

Tried primo mid-March for a month and experienced very bad hair loss. Stopped using it. My hair was fine before, but began experiencing lots of breakage, thinning, and some slight receding (could just be hair loss around the temples, not not necessarily receding). I would say that I've lost roughly 20-30% of volume and whatever else that left with it.

Cycle at the time was -

300mg Primo E/weekly
600mg Test E/weekly
7mg anavar/daily
9mg cialis/daily
250iu HCG/EOD

As far as I'm aware a 5AR-inhibitor such as finastaride/dutastaride won't work as those inhibit 5AR not DHT itself.

Ru and pyrilitumide worry me as I've heard due to it's anti-androgen effect goes systemic and causes atrophy of the heart. That's as far as I'm aware of these two, I know there's so much more about them.

I've used as high as 900mg test e/750mg deca/750 tren e with no issues to my hair. But using a DHT derivative absolutely had an affect. (I'm aware that was a moronic cycle)

The only concerning thing was my TSH was far out of the reference range. At the time/currently I'm dieting very hard on 2000 calories a day.

I can provide more info on the blood work if it was needed, but estrogens were high but in range - i thought maybe primo crashed my estrogen and that could've caused my hair loss however that wasn't the case? Learned that it doesn't reduce estrogen just has a affinity to it, thus making estrogen less available/usable (please correct me if I'm wrong)

That's all for now. I hope this can spark some good discussion!

I hope this was the appropriate section to post this.

I think RU-5881 or whatever its called is your option

 

[PushPullPl8s]

Anyone have experience with minoxidil? How bad is the shedding at the start? Did you use in conjunction with a DHT derivative and what happened when you stopped both?

 

[y777]

I understand that, however the way of it's mechanism is to inhibit 5AR, the conversion of testosterone to DHT.
I believe this would be useless when taking a DHT derivative as the compound does not undergo 5AR.

how do DHT derivatives actually cause hair loss ?

I imagine there are two ways , but am wondering if they’d differ in that some compounds may use one pathway more:

1. SHBG: most of these DHT derivatives bind to/nuke SHBG and therefore free up a ton of test that then gets converted to actual DHT and then the *real* DHT goes to town on your hair.

but but some people still get hair loss despite being on fin so the above isn’t true. Well we know that not all DHT conversion is blocked by 5ar blockers , for one , and that it’s even less so in the scalp.
so we would need data points of DHT derivative users and see if they’re on

- fin oral
- fin topical
- dut oral or topical
- or any receptor blockers like RU


2. The DHT compound itself binds to AR in the follicle and disrupts the growth, like DHT would do
in this case only way to use these compounds would be -I assume - to use some topical that has higher affinity for the AR in the scalp - than does the compound itself.
question now is whether these compounds like RU have higher affinity than the DHT-derived steroids.


is anyone seeing data points on primo, for example , and guys who are shedding are shedding despite running either blockers like RU or fin. I feel like you’d have to run both to cover both of the above hair loss pathways.

thoughts ?

 

[boophomet]

@PushPullPl8s is right, 5AR inhibitors won't do anything against Primo/Mast/Proviron etc because 5AR just inhibits testosterone from converting into DHT. Think of the compounds as spinoffs of DHT, they're not the same but exhibit similar properties, like hair loss.

The only real way to counter hair loss from them is topical RU58841, which prevents androgens from binding to your hair follicles and making them shed. Another solution is running a low enough dose of the DHT derived compounds while maintaining a strong level of estrogen, but that can be difficult. Using Deca/NPP in a high dose works too, since it metabolizes into DHN which is a less androgenic version of DHT and won't cause hair loss. There's just needs to be a plentiful amount of it in your system, so it outcompetes the Primo/Mast etc. You'll most likely still see some hairs fall, but not nearly as much.

Edit: Forgot to mention, don't take finasteride/dutasteride while using Deca/NPP, the process by which it converts into DHN also relies on 5AR, so you'll actually experience more hair loss if you combine the two.

 

[y777]

@PushPullPl8s is right, 5AR inhibitors won't do anything against Primo/Mast/Proviron etc because 5AR just inhibits testosterone from converting into DHT. Think of the compounds as spinoffs of DHT, they're not the same but exhibit similar properties, like hair loss.

The only real way to counter hair loss from them is topical RU58841, which prevents androgens from binding to your hair follicles and making them shed. Another solution is running a low enough dose of the DHT derived compounds while maintaining a strong level of estrogen, but that can be difficult. Using Deca/NPP in a high dose works too, since it metabolizes into DHN which is a less androgenic version of DHT and won't cause hair loss. There's just needs to be a plentiful amount of it in your system, so it outcompetes the Primo/Mast etc. You'll most likely still see some hairs fall, but not nearly as much.

Edit: Forgot to mention, don't take finasteride/dutasteride while using Deca/NPP, the process by which it converts into DHN also relies on 5AR, so you'll actually experience more hair loss if you combine the two.

Excellent post.
I’m will add that , while 5AR inhibitors do not help against DHT steroid effect on hair directly they may offer protection because many of these dht compounds crush SHBG , freeing up additional test , which itself gets 5AR reduced to DHT.