Maximally Synergistic Stacks

[Leg_locker]

And in regards to the 400/400 test/npp cycle. People swear that a 1:1 will Hiroshima your dick function- do you have personal experience w running a 1:1?

It's highly individual how nand effects dick function iv never experienced any problems actually quite the opposite I have a hard time getting it to go down on nand. I much prefer the 1:1 Iv gone up to 600/600 each and cruised on 150 test 150 deca for over a year.

Because it saves on inj volume- I was running out of real estate on my ass(on ED trt) before I switched to subq.

With the Test/npp/mast- I have test phenyl and nand phenyl which I think would be fine injecting EOD right? But how about the mast prop? That would require ED injections no?

Mast prop eod is fine but if you want lower Injection volumes u can switch to ED pinning and open up more sights. VG glutes delts chest are all easy I avoid the legs at all costs but lots of ppl like them.

 

[Slicknyc]

First off, you look great in the pics on the right. Amazing transformation. I don’t know where your head is at but when one sees progress and let’s say gets more “jacked” it becomes almost addicting - and you just want to get more results. This usually leads one to do more gear which will yield more size- at least that was the case for me. As years go by- It then becomes nearly impossible to maintain this size which is actually where I’m at now. I’ve lost much of it simply because my body can’t tolerate the amount of gear I was using. If I had it to do over again, I wouldn’t try to get muvh bigger than you are in those pics. Your 2nd stack looks ideal with NPP/ test p/mast p. 100mg eod of each. Stay away from Anadrol, dbol, and tren. Pharma gh if you can afford it, anavar, npp, primo, mast, test and maybe boldenone are all you need.

 

[Slicknyc]

That's terrible advice.

If that was the case, by cycle #15 in someone's lifetime, he should be using upwards of 5gr in order to gain any kind of muscle.

Biology doesn't work like brosience wants it to work.

You have a point to an extent but you can only get so big on 500mags test a week. I don’t care what anyone says but the biggest guys in the gyms aren’t running 500mg test/week. Can you achieve an amazing physique on 500mg test? Absolutely.

 

[narta]

You have a point to an extent but you can only get so big on 500mags test a week. I don’t care what anyone says but the biggest guys in the gyms aren’t running 500mg test/week. Can you achieve an amazing physique on 500mg test? Absolutely.

Of course you will not be THE biggest guy on the gym with 500mg test. But it's, imho, the best course to lower the test and then add a 2nd compound, see where that will get you and then consider adding another compound on the least amount you can continue to grow.

There is NO need for the average/intermediate aka non competing guy to up the dosages into multiple grams EVER.

Add a 3rd compound. Add low dosage HGH.

Food, rest and training (in that order) are the most critical factors of growth.

 

[Slicknyc]

Of course you will not be THE biggest guy on the gym with 500mg test. But it's, imho, the best course to lower the test and then add a 2nd compound, see where that will get you and then consider adding another compound on the least amount you can continue to grow.

There is NO need for the average/intermediate aka non competing guy to up the dosages into multiple grams EVER.

Add a 3rd compound. Add low dosage HGH.

Food, rest and training (in that order) are the most critical factors of growth.

100% agree

 

[cmK9s33]

The drug classes are not grouped in practice as 19-nor/testosterone/DHTs. Rather, with respect to biological effects and functional properties that combine greater than additively, the drug classes are best grouped by their structural features and distinctive metabolisms (e.g., androsta-1,4-diene-3-ones vs. androst-4-ene-3-ones vs. androst-1-ene-3-ones, etc.).

Indeed, synergy between compounds does more than merely permit total dose reduction; it results in a markedly different physique. I think few would actually attempt to argue that a 1.5 g testosterone blast yields the same physique as a 600 mg test/500 mg tren/400 mg mast blast (or even after adjusting for potency to activate AR, that the same holds true). TMT is a synergistic combination. I can happily illustrate how & why, and this has nothing to do with whether the three drugs are "19-nor/test/DHTs."

I’d appreciate the information if you have the time and inclination to type it out.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

That's terrible advice.

If that was the case, by cycle #15 in someone's lifetime, he should be using upwards of 5gr in order to gain any kind of muscle.

Biology doesn't work like brosience wants it to work.

Your personal opinion doesn't matter because what I say is facts.
I don't care what anyone wanna do with their bodies health and dosages but you can only grow So much at 500mg total gear.
Can you get big and look nice ?
OF COURSE
But not bigger and more shredded than yourself at 1000mg dosage

LBM is the same according to dosage , different compounds only change the appearance of your physique

 

[narta]

Your personal opinion doesn't matter because what I say is facts.
I don't care what anyone wanna do with their bodies health and dosages but you can only grow So much at 500mg total gear.
Can you get big and look nice ?
OF COURSE
But not bigger and more shredded than yourself at 1000mg dosage

LBM is the same according to dosage , different compounds only change the appearance of your physique

So much brosciense...

So 2gr of test is the same as 2gr of tren and 2gr of halo right?

 

[AlwaysHungry]

So much brosciense...

So 2gr of test is the same as 2gr of tren and 2gr of halo right?

Will yield around the same LBM (lean body mass) gains exactly. Lbm will be more or less the same the only thing that changes is the appearance and some unique effects of each steroid

 

[jJjburton]

I've seen @Type-IIx and others shed light on *synergy in regard to what compounds should be paired- as well as what compounds are incompatible/redundant via pairing.

From my findings so far on MESO- it would appear that when most think of a "synergistic cycle", it involves the golden trifecta- i.e.; one testosterone derivative/one DHT derivative/one 19-nor.

Yet, this seemingly straightforward & dependable structure appears to be misleading in the sense that it doesn't provide enough context in terms of the actual compound selection itself.

For example- although it fits the aforementioned rule, I've never heard of someone running a dbol/trestolone/winstrol cycle.
Or maybe that is common cycle- fuck if I know?
Another example on the contrary is a test/primo/mast cycle- which doesn’t fit the aforementioned rule, but yet seems to be an effective/popular cycle.
Or maybe it’s not an effective cycle- again, fuck if I know.
Point is, which 3 compounds actually have the most synergy outside of the standard bro-lure, like from an actual scientific standpoint? Is the literature clear on this?...For anyone who…literatures(?)

While obviously I’d like to open up a discussion on this for those who are knowledgeable, I have to admit that the main reason why I made this thread is of a more selfish nature…

…Once I’m a little deeper into my Accutane treatment, I'll be running my 3rd cycle- during which I'm prepared to venture beyond my standard test-only regimen and add two additional anabolics in moderate-low doses.

...And in designing said cycle, I appear to be suffering from an extreme fucking case of paralysis by analysis.

…Like fuck, I think I’ve re-done this cycle design 10x over by now…

I've been cruising on 125mg of cyp for >15weeks now, which will be 20-25 weeks by the time I start this next cycle. I'd like to think that all this time "off" will equate to a greater response, and I might even be able to return to my standard test-only regimen and add 8-10lbs(projected from the pattern of my past cycles). Yet, I want to add much more than that- so as stated previously I'd like to add two compounds that are more tissue selective(in moderate-low doses), while keeping my test @ </=500mg per week and keeping total AAS </=1000mg per week.

A few reasons for the low doses, aside from normal harm reduction reasons.

1. I want to make sure to the best of my abilities that I’m not adding to the hepatotoxic effects of the Accutane, as I’ll likely stay on it until I reach my cumulative dose- so I would like to keep orals to a min.

2. I'm a hyper-responder to AAS, from what I'm told.

(Image inserted below is before/after my first 2 cycles)
View attachment 176066

•Current Stats
-25yo, 190lbs, 5'6, 15%BF(Will cut down to <12% before starting cycle- Currently an out of shape little bitch)
•Previous Cycles
- 16 Weeks x 350 Test E {+21lbs LM}
- 20 Weeks x 500 Test C {+14lbs LM}

This will be a lean bulking cycle…

…I have nearly every compound on hand...
Test C
Test E
Test P
Test PH
Deca
Npp
Eq
Tren A
Mast P
Mast E
Dbol
Anavar
Winstrol
Tbol
Anadrol

Where the analysis paralysis comes into play is I have too many compounds to choose from and I want to make sure I’m selecting the most synergistic compounds to stack on top of my test- I know quite well that I'm being anal about this(Relax @TrenTrenTren ) because I believe I lean slightly towards neuroticism. But that’s another thread.

I have it narrowed down to 4 different cycles-
What would be the best choice from a compound selection standpoint for my goals?
Which stack makes more sense synergistically?
What needs to be changed?
View attachment 176067View attachment 176068
View attachment 176069View attachment 176070

If you read the steroid profiles Bill Roberts i believe the writer has synergies in each orifle of the anabolic profiles. Read each one, they are amazing. The steroid profiles on Meso on the too of the page or one of the links. Click on each one. They arent that long.

 

[narta]

Will yield around the same LBM (lean body mass) gains exactly. Lbm will be more or less the same the only thing that changes is the appearance and some unique effects of each steroid

The only thing that 2gr of halo will yield is a liver failure.

If that was the case, steroid cycles would just be down to mgs/week and nothing else.

As shown by the myriads of dumbfucks that pumped grs of steroids and died with nothing to show for and THOSE are FACTS, each compound is unique and NOT all things are equal.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

The only thing that 2gr of halo will yield is a liver failure.

If that was the case, steroid cycles would just be down to mgs/week and nothing else.

As shown by the myriads of dumbfucks that pumped grs of steroids and died with nothing to show for and THOSE are FACTS, each compound is unique and NOT all things are equal.

Each steroid unique effect! Just like your example halo is liver toxic so you wouldn't touch those dosages.

People combine steroids all the time to manipulate the look of their physique.

It is total mg + XY compounds= total lbm gained with a unique look .

Excuse me I don't wanna be rude but you seem to not understand how this works
But that's how it really is plain and simple we do make things complicated because we're passionate about chemical enchantment. Now if we're talking GH and Slin things are different.
But AAS are very simple.
You can expirament enough for yourself and you'll see.

PS: also people don't die from hormones except if it's dirty and you get serious abscess. They die because of incorrect diuretics use , insulin and doing rec drugs and be party animals along with bodybuilding habit. And also due to extreme diets in conjunction with the above.
But not you "cant" die directly by hormone usage

 

[narta]

Excuse me I don't wanna be rude but you seem to not understand how this works

Excuse me, I don't want to be rude either but you are talking out of your ass.

Go educate yourself.

 

[Nilatac]

@narta guy is right

Truth is that all steroids build the same muscle and what matters is the total mg/kg. Deca,tren,dhb is more anabolic but not to a huge extent that even worth to consider when you pick the substance.
You pick a substance for what it does specifically. Deca for joints help, halo for cns stimulus, drol for minerals, glycogen retention and so on

Pumping grams doesn't automatically means building muscle but is a wheel in a multiple wheel system and if one is not working properly neither the whole system will work properly. But until now I believe everyone knows that your diet and training should be in check and is not a surprise that.

And also why did you even mention 2g of halo as no one do that. Literally no one. 80-100 mg for some guys before a event and that for a short period. Is not even a real example that just pull a number out of nowhere

 

[Type-IIx]

Each steroid unique effect! Just like your example halo is liver toxic so you wouldn't touch those dosages.

People combine steroids all the time to manipulate the look of their physique.

It is total mg + XY compounds= total lbm gained with a unique look .

Excuse me I don't wanna be rude but you seem to not understand how this works
But that's how it really is plain and simple we do make things complicated because we're passionate about chemical enchantment. Now if we're talking GH and Slin things are different.
But AAS are very simple.
You can expirament enough for yourself and you'll see.

PS: also people don't die from hormones except if it's dirty and you get serious abscess. They die because of incorrect diuretics use , insulin and doing rec drugs and be party animals along with bodybuilding habit. And also due to extreme diets in conjunction with the above.
But not you "cant" die directly by hormone usage

You absolutely can, and many do, die from AAS use, especially due to thromboembolitic events. Because thromboembolism is the leading cause of natural death & because our (AAS abusing) population is so small and seemingly healthy, when people die as a result of AAS abuse (typically from ischemic heart disease or ischemic stroke) the cause of death is chalked up to congenital or hereditary factors; "natural."

AAS (you even said hormones; add slin to the mix, and risks go up dramatically) kill a significant percentage of users in our community. The best data that we have (the HAARLEM trial) showed substantial cardiac morphological changes and dysfunction induced by AAS. It's considered unethical to conduct long-term interventional studies into AAS. What we have are an abundance and high frequency of early deaths/sudden cardiac deaths that raise alarm in our community, and are soon forgotten.

I view AAS use as something not unlike tobacco use; it increases risk, is probably on par with the magnitude of deleterious effects; and lifestyle tends to reduce the magnitude of these risks. Still, hormones aren't good (nor neutral) for us.

 

[Type-IIx]

@narta guy is right

Truth is that all steroids build the same muscle and what matters is the total mg/kg. Deca,tren,dhb is more anabolic but not to a huge extent that even worth to consider when you pick the substance.
You pick a substance for what it does specifically. Deca for joints help, halo for cns stimulus, drol for minerals, glycogen retention and so on

Pumping grams doesn't automatically means building muscle but is a wheel in a multiple wheel system and if one is not working properly neither the whole system will work properly. But until now I believe everyone knows that your diet and training should be in check and is not a surprise that.

And also why did you even mention 2g of halo as no one do that. Literally no one. 80-100 mg for some guys before a event and that for a short period. Is not even a real example that just pull a number out of nowhere

His counterexample was both valid and representative, it presented an extreme counterexample to highlight the weakness in the logic. The reason that Halo isn't ran as high as 2 g/week is because it's so potently androgenic that it can be used at much lower doses for effects on strength and aggression. You're even conceding your main point, that Deca & Tren are relatively more potent anabolics and offer unique benefits (anticatabolic effects for Tren, antiadipogenic/reduction of fat mass effects of Tren) versus, e.g., Test. Since Deca enhances joint pain, this is a unique property that can combine with, e.g., Winstrol or Masteron for an enhanced outcome (heavier loading given that joints won't feel like they're going to snap), no?

 

[Nilatac]

His counterexample was both valid and representative, it presented an extreme counterexample to highlight the weakness in the logic. The reason that Halo isn't ran as high as 2 g/week is because it's so potently androgenic that it can be used at much lower doses for effects on strength and aggression. You're even conceding your main point, that Deca & Tren are relatively more potent anabolics and offer unique benefits (anticatabolic effects for Tren, antiadipogenic/reduction of fat mass effects of Tren) versus, e.g., Test. Since Deca enhances joint pain, this is a unique property that can combine with, e.g., Winstrol or Masteron for an enhanced outcome (heavier loading given that joints won't feel like they're going to snap), no?

2g halo example was pointless and pullout to make a point that is not valid in real life. Like 2g will give you liver failure and not more gains. No shit but who use 2 g. Or who use 2 g of any orals. Halo isn't even use to build muscle directly

Yes deca is more anabolic but not that anabolic that is the main reason why you should add to a cycle. All steroids are about the same when it comes to build tissue.

You pick your steroids for what is does specifically not because deca is 10% more anabolic. And yes is total mg/kg when you build muscle as all steroids do the same job in this field. Drugs work, more drugs work better
That was the discussion.

I said the same thing but in common english and not put 5 studies and pick words from a medical dictionary

 

[Type-IIx]

2g halo example was pointless and pullout to make a point that is not valid in real life. Like 2g will give you liver failure and not more gains. No shit but who use 2 g. Or who use 2 g of any orals. Halo isn't even use to build muscle directly

Yes deca is more anabolic but not that anabolic that is the main reason why you should add to a cycle. All steroids are about the same when it comes to build tissue.

You pick your steroids for what is does specifically not because deca is 10% more anabolic. And yes is total mg/kg when you build muscle as all steroids do the same job in this field. Drugs work, more drugs work better
That was the discussion.

I said the same thing but in common english and not put 5 studies and pick words from a medical dictionary

Every paragraph, virtually every sentence, you write contradicts the prior statement...

 

[Nilatac]

Every paragraph, virtually every sentence, you write contradicts the prior statement...

I will pull out some fancy words from dictionary to understand me as it's seem is the only way you understand

I said the same thing in both posts. All steroids are about the same anabolic and build the same amount of muscle and you pick your substance on what particularly does and gave the deca example for joints and other examples why you pick certain substance not because deca is x amount more anabolic and is total mg/kg that is matter when it comes to build muscle and not certain substance
Is exactly the same thing said but maybe if is not a pointless study you don't give attention when you read

 

[Norse13]

Every paragraph, virtually every sentence, you write contradicts the prior statement...

Excluding extremes, what's your view on "all steroids build same lean mass for same steroid dose" ?
E.g. Will 800 test + 800 deca build approximately the same muscle mass as 800 test + 400 EQ + 400 mast ?