Ment / test cycle and how much AI?

[DrSauce]

Hi guys just started 50mg testE and 50mg ment ace EOD . I’m sensitive to low estrogen making me feel like ass. Wonder what dosing of arimidex you’d recommend?

first time on ment have run every other compound in the world pretty much.

thank you!

 

[Habib]

You need Cabergoline since it's a 19-NOR derivative, you need arimidex at 0.5mg twice a week depends how much testosterone your running it with. What dose you running it at.

You can actually run MENT without testosterone.

 

[DrSauce]

You need Cabergoline since it's a 19-NOR derivative, you need arimidex at 0.5mg twice a week depends how much testosterone your running it with. What dose you running it at.

You can actually run MENT without testosterone.

I dont like caber, it causes massive withdrawal issues, meses with you brain dopamine chemistry. I've never needed it even with 500mg deca. I've started actually with Test P 50mg and 25mg Ment EOD. I know its a low dose but thats gives me a 1cc inject EOD. did .25mg dex w/ it to start.

 

[Habib]

It's a low dose of test, I think that should do the trick.

 

[MulberryTrees]

You need Cabergoline since it's a 19-NOR derivative

Reposting my comment from UGBB:

As I understand it, MENT is a progestin and progestins are shown to lower prolactin, so there would likely be no benefit to caber (though I've only seen one study for this and the application may be limited). Part of the conversion to 7a-Me-E2 seems to happen in the liver (about half) so AIs would only be half as effective. Raloxifene should still work as expected.

If Type-IIx's post is correct then MENT is roughly 40% more estrogenic than test. You would be able to estimate the estrogenic effects of MENT using the following guideline, according to his post:

Daily MENT dose x 10 = Weekly test dose
e.g. 10mg/day MENT = 100mg/week TEST in terms of estrogenicity.

This might account for the conflicting reports about MENT's estrogenicity.

The commonly cited figure is that MENT = 10x as anabolic as test (for HRT, probably an imperfect comparison at higher doses). So despite being 40% more estrogenic, MENT is run at much lower absolute dosages, leading to less total estrogenicity. Ment HRT is often just 1 mg/day, and at this dose some report having to run test alongside it just to get enough estrogenic activity.

So the ratio of estrogenicity to anabolism is great. The problem is that people still run extremely high doses relative to its anabolic potency, to the point where estrogenicty becomes an issue again, e.g.:

50mg/day MENT
Anabolism = 3.5g/week test (on paper, in reality probably not comparable)
Estrogenicity = 500mg/week test

Despite the extremely favorable ratio, 500mg/week test still gives a lot of people issues without an AI, so it's no wonder that MENT can be problematic for people at higher blast dosages.

It'd be interesting to get data about when people need an AI for test vs MENT. If the above is true, then someone who struggles at 300mg/week test should start experiencing sides at 30mg/day MENT.

I'm not knowledgeable about this at all, this is just me regurgitating other people's interpretations of actual data. So take it with a grain of salt!

 

[Ironman580]

Reposting my comment from UGBB:

As I understand it, MENT is a progestin and progestins are shown to lower prolactin, so there would likely be no benefit to caber (though I've only seen one study for this and the application may be limited). Part of the conversion to 7a-Me-E2 seems to happen in the liver (about half) so AIs would only be half as effective. Raloxifene should still work as expected.

If Type-IIx's post is correct then MENT is roughly 40% more estrogenic than test. You would be able to estimate the estrogenic effects of MENT using the following guideline, according to his post:

Daily MENT dose x 10 = Weekly test dose
e.g. 10mg/day MENT = 100mg/week TEST in terms of estrogenicity.

This might account for the conflicting reports about MENT's estrogenicity.

The commonly cited figure is that MENT = 10x as anabolic as test (for HRT, probably an imperfect comparison at higher doses). So despite being 40% more estrogenic, MENT is run at much lower absolute dosages, leading to less total estrogenicity. Ment HRT is often just 1 mg/day, and at this dose some report having to run test alongside it just to get enough estrogenic activity.

So the ratio of estrogenicity to anabolism is great. The problem is that people still run extremely high doses relative to its anabolic potency, to the point where estrogenicty becomes an issue again, e.g.:

50mg/day MENT
Anabolism = 3.5g/week test (on paper, in reality probably not comparable)
Estrogenicity = 500mg/week test

Despite the extremely favorable ratio, 500mg/week test still gives a lot of people issues without an AI, so it's no wonder that MENT can be problematic for people at higher blast dosages.

It'd be interesting to get data about when people need an AI for test vs MENT. If the above is true, then someone who struggles at 300mg/week test should start experiencing sides at 30mg/day MENT.

I'm not knowledgeable about this at all, this is just me regurgitating other people's interpretations of actual data. So take it with a grain of salt!

After this whole bullshit post at the end you say you aren’t knowledgeable at all about this!holy fuck I need to find a real BB forum

 

[MulberryTrees]

After this whole bullshit post at the end you say you aren’t knowledgeable at all about this!holy fuck I need to find a real BB forum

If you think it's bullshit then feel free to correct the parts that are bullshit. Really tear it apart, it would only be a good thing.

I said I'm not knowledgeable about this because I'm not--it would be disingenuous to act like I was the one to derive these conclusions from interpreting primary sources. I read posts by more knowledgeable people and tried to draw some modest conclusions from their takeaways.

Tell me what parts are bullshit and broaden everyon's knowledge. I'd be happy to admit I'm wrong because it can only further harm reduction. To make it easier for you, here are most of the claims in my post:

1. Progestins are shown to lower prolactin.
2. MENT's aromatization to 7a-methylestradiol occurs partially in the liver.
3. SERMs still block the effects of 7a-methyl-E2 in breast tissue.
4. MENT is roughly 40% more estrogenic than test.
5. MENT is roughly 10x as anabolic as test.

This is the best information I have found, but it's far from firmly established. You'd be doing me a huge favor to prove it wrong.

 

[theotherguy]

You need Cabergoline since it's a 19-NOR derivative, you need arimidex at 0.5mg twice a week depends how much testosterone your running it with. What dose you running it at.

You can actually run MENT without testosterone.

Incorrect, just because it is a 19-nor does not mean it’ll cause hyperprolactinemia. And you’re much better off/safer running P5P for prolactin reduction. Depending on the study you read, P5P is as or more effective at lowering prolactin than caber and has no sides under about 800mg/day. Most people run 100-400 mg/day P5P and keep prolactin well I’m check.

MENT can be run without test temporarily, but it does not convert to DHT and therefore you need something that will provide DHT directly or indirectly.

I do not recommend caber for MENT (and only in very rare circumstances would I recommend caber over P5P).

 

[theotherguy]

If you think it's bullshit then feel free to correct the parts that are bullshit. Really tear it apart, it would only be a good thing.

I said I'm not knowledgeable about this because I'm not--it would be disingenuous to act like I was the one to derive these conclusions from interpreting primary sources. I read posts by more knowledgeable people and tried to draw some modest conclusions from their takeaways.

Tell me what parts are bullshit and broaden everyon's knowledge. I'd be happy to admit I'm wrong because it can only further harm reduction. To make it easier for you, here are most of the claims in my post:

1. Progestins are shown to lower prolactin.
2. MENT's aromatization to 7a-methylestradiol occurs partially in the liver.
3. SERMs still block the effects of 7a-methyl-E2 in breast tissue.
4. MENT is roughly 40% more estrogenic than test.
5. MENT is roughly 10x as anabolic as test.

This is the best information I have found, but it's far from firmly established. You'd be doing me a huge favor to prove it wrong.

Check @Ironman580 post history, I challenge you to find one meaningful or productive post.

 

[Habib]

Incorrect, just because it is a 19-nor does not mean it’ll cause hyperprolactinemia. And you’re much better off/safer running P5P for prolactin reduction. Depending on the study you read, P5P is as or more effective at lowering prolactin than caber and has no sides under about 800mg/day. Most people run 100-400 mg/day P5P and keep prolactin well I’m check.

MENT can be run without test temporarily, but it does not convert to DHT and therefore you need something that will provide DHT directly or indirectly.

I do not recommend caber for MENT (and only in very rare circumstances would I recommend caber over P5P).

I do actually remember reading this somewhere

 

[LSDPowerlifting]

I was taking 3.5mg adex ew with 1000mg test ew and 35mg trest Ed and it still wasn't enough. There's no way to measure your e2 on trest, have fun crashing your estrogen or getting gyno, op. Your best bet would be to hammer yourself with ralox while taking the trest imo, ralox is horrible shit tho, I'm taking it now for gyno reversal, it sucks, a lot of headaches and can cause blood clots. And to the guy that said tredt is 40% more estrogenic than test, I'm pretty sure that is a massive understatement.

 

[MulberryTrees]

And to the guy that said tredt is 40% more estrogenic than test, I'm pretty sure that is a massive understatement.

The 40% number is (according to the post I linked) just the rate of aromatization * half maximal effective concentration * relative binding affinity, for 7a-methlyestradiol, there could definitely be other stuff going on.

But for your specific example, it'd be interesting to hear how much adex you need on 1000mg test solo, 35mg trest ED solo, or trest on top of cruise test.

The problem with a lot of anecdotal reports is that people are never running trest alone. Using the guideline from Type-IIx, your 35mg ED trest was like taking an extra 350mg test a week on top of your 1g. What would you normally expect in that situation, does it match up?

Also, having to use more adex than expected isn't necessarily because the trest is aromatizing more, more potent, etc. Because half of the aromatization supposedly occurs in the liver, an AI would only be half as effective--there's a % of trest's 7a-methly-E2 that you simply can't reduce, you'd have to block it with a SERM. This seems similar to how aromatizaiton from hCG stimulating Leydig cells is also resistant to AI use.

 

[Forthewin1123]

Everyone aromatize differently.. I did 250-300mg test e a wk and 20mg ment ed.. I felt best at 12.5 mg aromasin eod.. never used arimadex so I'm no help there..
I do reccomend starting at 5-10mg ment first .. and slowly go up.. this allowed me to dial in /control e2.. all by look and feel.. which is not tne best but I've been good that way.. blood work is impossible where I love and have to go out of state..

 

[MulberryTrees]

Everyone aromatize differently.. I did 250-300mg test e a wk and 20mg ment ed.. I felt best at 12.5 mg aromasin eod.. never used arimadex so I'm no help there..
I do reccomend starting at 5-10mg ment first .. and slowly go up.. this allowed me to dial in /control e2.. all by look and feel.. which is not tne best but I've been good that way.. blood work is impossible where I love and have to go out of state..

Good to know. How much asin do you normally use for test? Would you need any for 300mg or 500mg solo?

 

[Forthewin1123]

Good to know. How much asin do you normally use for test? Would you need any for 300mg or 500mg solo?

I can go without any ai.. but at 509 I prefer 6mg 2x a wk asin.. less oily skin is tje reason for this.. no otjer issues.. my very first time on test I got itchy and sensitive nipples.. whacked it with asin and Nolvadex lol panic mode.. I've never had any gyno aides or issues since.. I'm very fortunate in the gyno/e2 sides department..

 

[Forthewin1123]

Good to know. How much asin do you normally use for test? Would you need any for 300mg or 500mg solo?

Oh my post has an error.. I went to 50mg ed of ment.. not 20.. just realized this.

 

[Forthewin1123]

Everyone aromatize differently.. I did 250-300mg test e a wk and 20mg ment ed.. I felt best at 12.5 mg aromasin eod.. never used arimadex so I'm no help there..
I do reccomend starting at 5-10mg ment first .. and slowly go up.. this allowed me to dial in /control e2.. all by look and feel.. which is not tne best but I've been good that way.. blood work is impossible where I love and have to go out of state..

I can't edit this for some reason.. but I made an error.. I ran 50mg ed not 20. I started at 5mg and after the first week I felt great and didn't get any crazy e2 reaction like is talked about.. I went up some what quickly to a final dose of 50mg daily and ran that for 2-2.5 months

 

[DrSauce]

So far I’ve done 4 days of 25mg ment daily with my test. Got a little nipple fluid, took .25mg Adex and went right now. I feel good so far. Best I’ve felt in a bit. I’m going to play with small doses of adex as I see how the build up goes.

 

[DrSauce]

The 40% number is (according to the post I linked) just the rate of aromatization * half maximal effective concentration * relative binding affinity, for 7a-methlyestradiol, there could definitely be other stuff going on.

But for your specific example, it'd be interesting to hear how much adex you need on 1000mg test solo, 35mg trest ED solo, or trest on top of cruise test.

The problem with a lot of anecdotal reports is that people are never running trest alone. Using the guideline from Type-IIx, your 35mg ED trest was like taking an extra 350mg test a week on top of your 1g. What would you normally expect in that situation, does it match up?

Also, having to use more adex than expected isn't necessarily because the trest is aromatizing more, more potent, etc. Because half of the aromatization supposedly occurs in the liver, an AI would only be half as effective--there's a % of trest's 7a-methly-E2 that you simply can't reduce, you'd have to block it with a SERM. This seems similar to how aromatizaiton from hCG stimulating Leydig cells is also resistant to AI use.

wow this is the first I’ve heard of hcg being resistant to AIs but makes so much sense. I’ve been trying to add in hcg but it gives me horrible gyno almost immediately even when I’m on a AI. I add more AI then I get all the symptoms of low estrogen. I’ve decided to quit using it again but I’d really like to. Do you have a source for this? I thought I was just a freak that can’t handle hcg. How do so many people use it?

 

[bigtdawgwassupbro]

your fucked your gonna grow big tits